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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 17, 2011 15:06:39 GMT -7
Hey guys, I was ordering new JJ tubes for my Maz 18NR from Eurotubes (awesome guys by the way) and they told me about their newest JJ power tube that they had specifically manufactured for them. The JJ EL844 has 25-30% less output than a regular EL84 and makes the Maz just scream. And its not just a tube that tested lower output. He said they are manufactured so warm and rich. I combined them with a trio of high gain preamp tubes that they recommended and he said my Maz will be a Marshall killer now and that I will still be able to roll my guitar volume down to clean up my tone a little. I run my Maz with volume at 3:00 to cranked and MV at 8:30 to 9:00 and have always wished for just a little more gain...well now I'll have it!! They will arrive on weds so I'll give you guys a full report. I love my Maz but as you know even at 18watts they are so dang loud, even with my airbrake. Maybe this is the ticket for us higher gain players......
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Post by rickc007 on Jan 17, 2011 16:47:00 GMT -7
May want to wait for Doc to test and verify these.
There is a lot of concern about these tubes on many forums
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Post by "Z" Steve on Jan 17, 2011 16:58:56 GMT -7
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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 17, 2011 18:39:28 GMT -7
Thanks for the thread, I just now posted some of my conversation with the guys at eurotubes on that thread. Any other thread links??
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Post by doctorice on Jan 17, 2011 18:47:49 GMT -7
Sounds interesting, but I'll wait for the Doc's verdict.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 19:16:41 GMT -7
interesting for sure! Love to hear how you make out with them
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Post by BritInvasion on Jan 17, 2011 20:22:58 GMT -7
Look forward to hearing your opinion of them after you fire 'em up. Keep us posted.
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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 21, 2011 14:50:53 GMT -7
Well I fired 'em up along with 2 new JJ highgain preamps and holly cow!! I love it. Very articulate. I would say there is a 15% increase in gain but literally a 100% increase in individual note sustain. I've owned a Monza and the Maz is still not quite Monza gain but close. I used to have the Volume at max but now at about 3:00 it is close (gain wise)to what max used to be. Which is nice because as many of you have found when you get past 3:00 with the volume you lose some bass response and the treble increases. The new tubes also allow me to bring the master volume up a little more yet keep the same overall volume. That also adds some richness to the tone. I guess what I love the most is the sustain increase. I roll my guitar volume up and down alot as I play and the sustain is so much better at cleaner volumes as well as dirtier volumes. Now since I replaced all those tubes at the same time, I don't know if it is from the HG preamps or the EL844's, but I would imagine it is a combination of the two. Whatever it is.... ME LIKEY!!
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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 22, 2011 22:07:12 GMT -7
Another update: After a lil playing I started A/Bing some of the tubes and found what I liked the best. With both of the higain JJ's preamps in #1 and #2, the Maz tone was a lil too bright. I replaced pos #1 with the stock JJ and left the HG in #2 and PERFECT! Rounded things out a lil but still had the extra gain I needed. I read on one of the Z forum posts about that trick. Milder gain tube in #1 and higher gain tube in #2. Seems backwards to me but sounds great! I still really like the EL844's better than the stock JJ's. Not a night and day dif but...
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Post by Ben on Jan 23, 2011 7:12:13 GMT -7
Another update: After a lil playing I started A/Bing some of the tubes and found what I liked the best. With both of the higain JJ's preamps in #1 and #2, the Maz tone was a lil too bright. I replaced pos #1 with the stock JJ and left the HG in #2 and PERFECT! Rounded things out a lil but still had the extra gain I needed. I read on one of the Z forum posts about that trick. Milder gain tube in #1 and higher gain tube in #2. Seems backwards to me but sounds great! I still really like the EL844's better than the stock JJ's. Not a night and day dif but... Are both regular and EL84-4 the same rating? Power Tubes must (always) be used as a matched pair.
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Post by DRZ on Jan 23, 2011 7:22:05 GMT -7
Sounds interesting, but I'll wait for the Doc's verdict. Sorry guys I know I promised, but I have been pulled by ETL engineering needs. I'm redoing almost 75% of the amp panels so they comply with all the proper warnings. I will get busy on the EL-844 evaluation, but remember I will need to time test them for reliability not only plug-n-play sound. DR.Z
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Post by BritInvasion on Jan 23, 2011 7:42:58 GMT -7
Sounds interesting, but I'll wait for the Doc's verdict. Sorry guys I know I promised, but I have been pulled by ETL engineering needs. I'm redoing almost 75% of the amp panels so they comply with all the proper warnings. I will get busy on the EL-844 evaluation, but remember I will need to time test them for reliability not only plug-n-play sound. DR.Z Awesome! Look forward to your findings Doc!
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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 23, 2011 13:55:24 GMT -7
I was only mix and matching the Ecc83's in the preamp section. I used a balanced matched pair of EL-844's in the power section.
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Post by Ben on Jan 23, 2011 14:42:23 GMT -7
I was only mix and matching the Ecc83's in the preamp section. I used a balanced matched pair of EL-844's in the power section. Now you got me real confused !! Which HighGain preamp tubes are you referring too in your earlier post? It can't be the EL844s as well, they are power tubes. sorry - don't mean to come across like i'm doubting or anything, just trying to understand exactly what you meant
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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 23, 2011 17:32:35 GMT -7
Sorry, Let me clear things up. I put in 2 new JJ hi-gain 12ax7a's as well as 2 new JJ el-844 power tubes. After playing around I put a standard gain JJ 12ax7a back in preamp position #1. Does that make more sense?
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Post by Ben on Jan 24, 2011 6:09:21 GMT -7
Sorry, Let me clear things up. I put in 2 new JJ hi-gain 12ax7a's as well as 2 new JJ el-844 power tubes. After playing around I put a standard gain JJ 12ax7a back in preamp position #1. Does that make more sense? Yep.! I had never heard/read about highgain 12AX7's before your post Which model are they?
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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 24, 2011 8:05:05 GMT -7
They are JJ's from Bob at Eurotubes. He hand picks them for the right gain. I would say they add about 10-15% more gain to the ear. But as I stated, having both in was just a lil too bright for me. So I kept one in pos#2 and its just right. More gain but rounded things out a little. They are about $3 more per tube than a stock 12ax7a.
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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 24, 2011 8:12:40 GMT -7
I also tried their balanced JJ PI. The sovtek longplates keep going microphonic on me and have noise issues for me. I've had 2 go bad in 9 months. I like the JJ PI so far, its a little warmer than the sovtek. And supposed to be more durable too. We'll see....
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Post by Ben on Jan 25, 2011 5:49:22 GMT -7
They are JJ's from Bob at Eurotubes. He hand picks them for the right gain. I knew I wasn't that crazy. I had understood that they were JJ branded / boxed / marketed as "high gain". I haven't had any Sovtek 12AX7-LPS go bad on me yet, but tubes are tubes so you never know what you're gonna get!
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Post by DRZ on Feb 3, 2011 13:01:15 GMT -7
OK guy's I got in a couple of quads of the EL-844's. I just started testing them and my EARLY results so far are:
They are just plug-n-play tubes.
Don't expect the difference between 9 watts and 12 watts to be significant.
I seem to like the tone from quads better then pairs.
They sounded very nice in a Z-Wreck and a Mazerati.
Not so hot in a Ghia, a bit congested not as smooth or articulate as I like.
I'm doing a torture test in a MAZ JR as I'm typing this and will follow up with results.
One negative point is they cost me more then standard EL-84's which I found odd.
DR.Z
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2011 13:41:16 GMT -7
looking forward to the Maz Jr reports...
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Post by Scott on Feb 3, 2011 14:45:22 GMT -7
Me too... Thanks Doc.
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Post by Eddie on Feb 3, 2011 19:31:33 GMT -7
Ooooh! The mad scientist is at work with a torture test!
Thanks for testing these out for us Doc. Eddie
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Post by DRZ on Feb 4, 2011 12:24:19 GMT -7
OK I did more testing and the results are:
The EL-844 held up to the torture testing quite well. What they will do long term in the real world of gigging, only time will tell.
They sound very nice, less top end cut and more low end fullness. Which some might like.
But the lower wattage isn't very noticeable, you almost have to ask yourself is that really lower volume.
Again they didn't do as well in the Ghia, I don't know why maybe the higher bias resistor, conjunctive filter, and much lower plate voltage, all added up to loss in good tone IMHO.
The difference in output power is less then one click on the Air-Brake. So not sure if that justifies a purchase, but for 30.00 a pair they might be a nice subtle change of pace.
DR.Z
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 4, 2011 12:51:00 GMT -7
Well it's not every day that something is offered up to the music making world that actually works right - thanks for taking the time to figure that out. You just nipped about 5000 messages about this topic right in the bud.
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Post by Scott on Feb 4, 2011 15:38:38 GMT -7
+1 Thanks for your report.
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Post by 1juicy1 on Feb 4, 2011 19:52:58 GMT -7
Thanks Doc!! That is what I found, one click on my brake lite and the tone is a subtle difference. But it is different. Especially nice for us higher preamp volume players!! Combined with the high gain JJ12AX7A's its a big difference!
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Post by BritInvasion on Feb 4, 2011 20:43:09 GMT -7
Thanks for the test and report Doc!!
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