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Post by rickc007 on Nov 8, 2010 7:49:50 GMT -7
Eurotubes is advertising a newer tube, and EL844 www.eurotubes.com/euro-u.htmThey may be plug and play with a Dr. Z Some, on another forum are claiming potential damage if used. Wonder if Doc has heard/played with these
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 8:39:00 GMT -7
I would Love to hear the Doc's verdict on this tube.
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Post by Don on Nov 8, 2010 8:42:00 GMT -7
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Post by Don on Nov 8, 2010 8:56:04 GMT -7
And then I found this opinion:
Really!? Since when does the rated plate dissipation of a tube govern the output power it’s capable of achieving in a given amp circuit? Last I checked, P = V^2 / Load Impedance (nothing in that equation about the "rated plate dissipation of a tube") and plate dissipation governs the minimum safe load impedance you can run at a given B+ voltage. Yes these parameters do affect output power but…he’s basically saying that by simply dropping the rated dissipation of the tube itself that that’s somehow going to drop the amp’s output power and give breakup at a lower volume???
For the record all that’s gonna do is cause some BIG overheating issues in EL84 amps…NOT "drop the amp’s output power" like he’s thinking. Just goes to show how much he DOESN’T know about tube amps. After all the misinformation in his marketing tactics, why would anyone want to buy from this guy?
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Post by Scott on Nov 8, 2010 17:12:35 GMT -7
Thanks for the post...
I would also like to know if they are safe for my Jr.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2010 13:16:12 GMT -7
Looks good in writing. I'd like to know how they will work in real world situations. 2 dB less output from my Stangray might be a good thing.
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Post by DRZ on Nov 11, 2010 15:19:51 GMT -7
Guy's I checked the pin out and it will drop in replace a EL-84. It will survive idle and moderate playing volumes , but beyond that I will need to get some and torture them.
I will test them then give you a full report.
Z
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Post by Corey on Nov 11, 2010 16:40:48 GMT -7
Thanks Doc.. so cool for you to drop in and give a message. {THANK YOU FOR MY GHIA!} I'll be checking back for the scoop.
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Post by BritInvasion on Nov 11, 2010 18:17:00 GMT -7
Thanks Doc! Looking forward to your findings. Cool!
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Post by Scott on Nov 11, 2010 21:54:08 GMT -7
+1
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Post by zdogma on Nov 13, 2010 16:02:48 GMT -7
I like this forum. How many manufacturers would do that? Good job Doc.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2010 17:46:14 GMT -7
Thanks Doc.
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Post by jimmysmith on Nov 13, 2010 22:23:55 GMT -7
thanks doc,, man i love my mazerati gt , but i might try a quad of these and see what happens, for 44 bucks,, but only if you say it is ok,,,j
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Post by ch1naski on Nov 29, 2010 9:40:58 GMT -7
So, these are now officially available.....Anyone got a pair yet?
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Post by Ryan (shorty) on Dec 8, 2010 18:14:25 GMT -7
I just put a pair in my Ghia and they sound like JJ EL-84's. They seem like good tubes but I don't think they are low output. However, I only had a few minutes with them and it's just a first impression. More to follow as time permits.
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Post by myles on Dec 8, 2010 20:01:09 GMT -7
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Post by wubberdubber on Dec 8, 2010 20:36:38 GMT -7
I was just looking at a quad of these on ebay and was wondering what that would do in my MAZ 38 NR...and decided to check the forum and see what's up. Anxiously awaiting Doc Z's verdict on these.
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Post by wubberdubber on Dec 8, 2010 20:57:10 GMT -7
...and, just checked out Myles cartoon. I get your point about the very real possibility of a manufacturer trying to market and unload their tubes that didn't quite measure up, so to speak. I can think of a few uses for for them though, if the hype is true...like, recording, or taming one of the more powerful Z amps to use on a "smaller" gig, for example. Sort of the same way some substitute a 5751 in place of a 12AX7 to back things down a notch. Granted, I'm speculating here, and I'm no tube expert, so maybe I'm way off. This tube interests me enough to want to hear from some real-world testing though.
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Post by myles on Dec 9, 2010 10:21:34 GMT -7
...and, just checked out Myles cartoon. I get your point about the very real possibility of a manufacturer trying to market and unload their tubes that didn't quite measure up, so to speak. I can think of a few uses for for them though, if the hype is true...like, recording, or taming one of the more powerful Z amps to use on a "smaller" gig, for example. Sort of the same way some substitute a 5751 in place of a 12AX7 to back things down a notch. Granted, I'm speculating here, and I'm no tube expert, so maybe I'm way off. This tube interests me enough to want to hear from some real-world testing though. The plate dissipation difference is too slight to make a difference. I truly feel it is just a substandard EL84 from their regular product line. When a tube has some sort of defect in production that allows this sort of thing to happen there are other issues such as reliability.
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Post by wubberdubber on Dec 9, 2010 11:51:54 GMT -7
Could be... Wouldn't that sort of be a black eye to JJ?...seems to me they've had a good thing going and building a decent rep so far.
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Post by myles on Dec 9, 2010 17:22:12 GMT -7
Could be... Wouldn't that sort of be a black eye to JJ?...seems to me they've had a good thing going and building a decent rep so far. A lot of folks try to find a use for their pieces that do not make the cut. GT used to sell theirs as Silver Series. When I was at GT I always told anybody I worked with not to buy silver series and told them why. I also used to fight with Aspen Pittman on what was even worse than silver series preamp tubes ... silver series output tubes. GT built a reputation on matching and in their heyday they did a great job. But in later years the rating system dropped to red, white, blue ... or hot, medium and cool. Only three ratings and only the whites were near design spec. In the case of silver series output tubes there was NO rating and NO matching. You had a 100% chance of getting garbage because not only were the tubes NOT matched or graded in any way, they also failed the tests which allowed them to be considered for gold series. In the case of output tubes, gold series ONLY in a 5-6 rating was the only way to go. On certain GT customers I would hand pick in a given number series. I used to do this for the Doc and the Z amps folks. These days I use JJ EL84 for my touring folks. I work with a company called ARS in Van Nuys. I know how their test gear works and Marty over there pulls tubes for me in a specific range. Then I take the tubes and curve trace them to match them over the entire range, not just at idle. Today in this economy when you see a cheaper model of something or a lower performing version of something you can probably bank on the fact that the economy is hitting them as well and they are trying to save money or raise profit margin.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2010 19:54:50 GMT -7
one time a guy had some green stuff in a bag and tried to sell it to me as "Bud Shake" as in, it was shake but it was from Buds!
Thank you Myles for your worldly insight!
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Post by bluzman on Dec 9, 2010 20:39:13 GMT -7
^^^^ I ran into him before too.
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Post by Scott on Dec 10, 2010 11:57:32 GMT -7
Small world! The dude gets around.
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Post by ch1naski on Jan 7, 2011 18:45:46 GMT -7
Sorry about the "bud shake", guys.... no hard feelings? lol. on another note... seeing as it aint exactly easy to manufacture tubes these days, and seeing how there really isnt (at least, I cant imagine there WOULD be)a huge demand for a lower output el-84, it does kinda sound a lil bit fishy. I mean, isnt the el-84 already pretty low output, wattage-wise? it takes 2 two come up with 18 watts, 4 for 38 watts (assuming that's what's in the maz senior) etc...as far as power tubes go, it's pretty low.
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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 17, 2011 18:35:17 GMT -7
I talked to Bob at eurotubes and he and his crew at eurotubes have never steered me wrong. He actually recommended the EL844 for my application in my Maz Jr NR. I play with cranked Volume and lower master volume and was wanting even more breakup at lower stage volumes and he said these, along with some hand picked high gain JJ preamps would be the ticket for me. Maybe these wouldn't be ideal for the cranked MV max-headroom players out there. I've always trusted Bob through the years and his recommendations have always been spot on with all of the amps Ive owned. Eurotubes has tried these in the Z's with great results and he guaranteed me these EL844's are not just substandard tubes that just tested with lower output. I too would like to hear the Doc's verdict also. Anyway, tubes will arrive on Weds and I will give you guys a full review after some playing time.
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Post by cheycaster on Jan 17, 2011 18:38:13 GMT -7
Man they sure sounded good for a coupla posts then WHAM, I woke up and seen the light! Thanks Myles for sharing your vast knowledge here with us and thanks to DOC for offering up your bad self as well! Again, this is the stuff that makes this Forum so danged cool to be a part of
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Post by 1juicy1 on Jan 17, 2011 18:42:17 GMT -7
Has the Doc posted a decision yet? If so could someone post the link? Thanks
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Post by "Z" Steve on Jan 17, 2011 19:18:09 GMT -7
For the record, I get my JJ's from Bob - have for 7 years or so and he has been outstanding re service, whether on the phone, email, or the one instance I dealt with a replacement. I'd love to hear your review, as well as know how long they hold up (they are a new tube with no track record to speak of yet). There's a lot of eye's on this one with other qualified tube experts questioning them.
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Post by myles on Jan 18, 2011 9:56:33 GMT -7
Man they sure sounded good for a coupla posts then WHAM, I woke up and seen the light! Thanks Myles for sharing your vast knowledge here with us and thanks to DOC for offering up your bad self as well! Again, this is the stuff that makes this Forum so danged cool to be a part of I still see no reason for this underpowered and substandard tube. To me this reeks of marketing in the current economy to take weak and substandard items and label a defect as a feature.
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