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Post by frankie on Jun 24, 2022 12:40:16 GMT -7
Here's a teaser for what will be the final tweaked design:
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Post by bubs42 on Jun 24, 2022 19:56:23 GMT -7
Sounds like a Z28! Red Cab and a Black Z! Woof
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Post by perryr on Jun 29, 2022 10:24:35 GMT -7
Awesome!
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Post by nmz on Jun 29, 2022 10:54:16 GMT -7
Wow, they really DO sound better in red. 😂
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Post by goodez on Jun 30, 2022 12:52:28 GMT -7
How much does it weigh?
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Post by fishbeiner on Jun 30, 2022 16:00:15 GMT -7
Hey, Ryan! The Z-Master is noted to be 42lbs. That is with three ten inch speakers. Since the new Z-28 is using the same cab. For comparisons sake an eminence legend 10” alnico (If I remember correctly the Z-Master uses a custom 10” alnico from Eminence) weighs about three pounds. A Celestion Creamback G12M 65 is about eight pounds, so in theory it should be very close.
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Post by Rockerfeller on Jul 1, 2022 17:20:33 GMT -7
So when will it hit Sweetwater?
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Post by DRZ on Jul 2, 2022 0:50:58 GMT -7
So when will it hit Sweetwater? The output transformers arrived this week. Now I'm only waiting on the special RED 1X12 combo cabs. Promised delivery by mid July, fingers crossed as this has been the bane of my production as of late. So chassis's are being built and I hope to have 25 units ready to ship to dealers August 1st. Original releases always circumvent long lead times, get some out there and generate a buzz ( interest not actual amp buzz ) . Finally the end is near. Though it seems like a long time in release , I must say I have massaged this design like no other . It is truly fine tuned and ready to rock. DR.Z
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Post by bubs42 on Jul 2, 2022 6:59:05 GMT -7
It’s going to do great! i Love all my Z28’s , but the master is amazing on The MKII. A master volume amp that still feels like a non master volume amp.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jul 4, 2022 16:29:42 GMT -7
I really like the looks of that new cabinet. Looks deeper than the others, solid. Sounds great as well.
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Post by z4me on Jul 11, 2022 16:41:08 GMT -7
Sounds great. DRZ I am wondering why you eliminated the effects loop from the design? Was it tone related, availability of the effects loops or to keep the amp cost/sales price down? Thanks.
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Post by DRZ on Jul 11, 2022 18:21:01 GMT -7
Sounds great. DRZ I am wondering why you eliminated the effects loop from the design? Was it tone related, availability of the effects loops or to keep the amp cost/sales price down? Thanks. Well it sure does help make the introductory price more reasonable for sure. But the issue wasn't tone related it was the complaints I was receiving about older pedals snapping and popping when engaged through the loop, and not when going into the amps input. Of course this is on other models of mine that use the Metro loop. I have brought this issue up to George a couple of times and he offered no solution. Kind of tired of hearing the many complaints , and with a low gain amp with an EF 86 front-end like the Z 28 MKII an effects loop is totally not needed, just a nice added feature for some. I have demonstrated the use of a delay pedal with Z 28 at max level through the input jack and the Delay worked perfectly. It is built to have the Metro Loop just dropped in , if a customer feels the need to have one but buyer be aware. I have spoken to owners of the proto-type Z 28 MKII's and they do not use the loop, nor would ask for one as the amp functions just great to pedals without one. Save some money on the list price, and save me headaches of phone calls from irate customers with no easy solution. Z
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Post by z4me on Jul 11, 2022 21:28:32 GMT -7
Hi DRZ, Thanks for the response and the info, good to know. I can see why you would not want to add a part or feature that might bring product quality into question from customers. Also a good point about low gain amps not needing a loop anyway. I was curious about why the loop was eliminated from the design as the inital conversations about this amp mentioned a PPIMV and a loop, and those caught my interest. Of the 2 additions to the Z28, a master volume is much more desireable than a loop though. Glad to see an EF86 model getting back into your offerings. Take care, Jerry
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Post by DRZ on Jul 12, 2022 9:38:14 GMT -7
OK let me add a little more to my Effects Loop post. The Metro loop works very well but still has a some small issues with some pedals. Keep in mind that all E/F loop have issues and don't all work the same with various pedals. Why you ask, well there is no standard for pedals outputs and input impedance's. There is no STANDARD. Pedals built on guys kitchen tables work very well but do not have a standard to compare to other pedal manufactures.
The other issue is that users seem to not be flexible in altering the pedal board configuration. I hear "it works fine with my XXX amp but not with the Z". Well try and rearrange the pedals or alter the amp setting or pedal settings , every loop is different. Also I have seen an increase in Loop Pedal correcting pedals to make amp loops work , what does that tell you.
Z amps are hand built to Vintage Amp standards and this is what a majority of Z customers want and demand. Those players that feel the need to have an Effects Loop as their only way to achieve tonal nirvana and don't care for how the amp responds, its unique tone, and its reliability with all do respect should look at another brand.
Z
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Post by patrick555 on Jul 12, 2022 14:19:23 GMT -7
I haven’t been able to get this amp off my mind since I first read that the mkII is being released. Every day I wake up and check my normal Z dealers, waiting for the day the Z28 pops up. One of these days soon..
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Post by Rockerfeller on Jul 12, 2022 16:35:09 GMT -7
I use the metro loop on my Jetta just to put a verb pedal in. It works great. I definitely don’t need a metro loop on any of my amps and not having one in the Z 28 makes no difference to me at all.
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Post by djcakadave on Jul 12, 2022 17:04:15 GMT -7
I never use the metro loop on any of my Z's and have never been disappointed with the sound that any of the Doc's amp's produce, with or without pedals!
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Post by nick0 on Jul 12, 2022 18:01:21 GMT -7
I love that the MKII won't have an effects loop! I have shelves full of pedals. Z amps sound great with and without pedals right into the front end. Works for me anyway! More direct signal path, save me a few bucks, and let the Doc focus on engineering amps instead of some dude's reverb pedal making noise.... IM IN!
Hope the cabs arrived soon Sir!
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Post by DRZ on Jul 13, 2022 1:50:30 GMT -7
Hope the cabs arrived soon Sir! Well I received some bad news yesterday . My Z 28 1X12 cabs which were scheduled to arrive this week have been pushed back a week . So instead of the week of the 11th. they are pushed to the week of the 18th. And this was stated without much confidence . I truly hate trying to run my business and control release dates without confidence that my suppliers will meet their stated goals. Z
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Post by nick0 on Jul 13, 2022 2:42:41 GMT -7
Hope the cabs arrived soon Sir! Well I received some bad news yesterday . My Z 28 1X12 cabs which were scheduled to arrive this week have been pushed back a week . So instead of the week of the 11th. they are pushed to the week of the 18th. And this was stated without much confidence . I truly hate trying to run my business and control release dates without confidence that my suppliers will meet their stated goals. Z It's like this across all industries that I'm involved with. It's a challenging environment for any kind of manufacturing and has been for a few years now.
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Post by DRZ on Jul 21, 2022 9:08:31 GMT -7
OK another set back. Cabs were pushed back from week of 7/11 to 7/18, now I hope to receive my first order of RED 1x12 Z 28 MKII cabs by 8/4. Well it does give me time to have more units built and ready to ship on the new release date. We have 18 chassis built and tested ready to load I hope to have 12 more ready by week of August 15th. The saga continues. I hate things that are out of my control.
Z
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Post by frankie on Jul 21, 2022 12:38:33 GMT -7
Sounds great. DRZ I am wondering why you eliminated the effects loop from the design? Was it tone related, availability of the effects loops or to keep the amp cost/sales price down? Thanks. I want to add to this because I'm the one who gets called on to help make the "loop or not" decision, as the other guitar players in the shop aren't big on pedals and effects. Well I am, I have a massive board, and I will tell you, be it delay or modulation or reverb, or any time based effects, they sound better in front of the EF-86. We did a whole week of testing, two amps side by side, one with no loop, the other with a loop. It just simply sounds better in front, EVEN WITH THE GAIN ALL THE WAY UP! To adjust to this, if you are the sort of player who wants your overdrive from the amp, just turn the mix of the delay or reverb down a bit more than you would if the amp was set clean. It's this way with all the EF-86 amps and something I LOVE about my Delta 88. I use it in the studio clean, and of course it's perfect, and when I want it to grind, I just turn my FX mix down. You can hear it in my quick and dirty demo. That amp was cooking and the delays and chorus were pristine. Some amps need a loop. Like the CAZ 45, where all the gain is staged in the front end. The loop works beautifully in this design, but it's a cascaded 12AX7 design. The EF 86 is not a dual triode, it's not cascaded, it's high voltage and it goes through the tone stack and right into the phase inverter and anything in-between that (an FX loop with a chain of pedals), takes away from that. It does the EF-86 a disservice, because it's such a unique, hi-fi sound. Sorry to get on my soapbox about this, it's just that Z knows me as they guy who has to say "well this amp needs and FX loop, you know people will want a loop" and then it's up to the boss to figure it out, how to fit it on the circuit board, where to lay it out on the chassis, how to make it work with the insane inconsistencies in the giant pedal world. It's a pain. When it came to decide whether this amp need one, I was curious to see the difference between FX in loop and FX out front and after we did the test I came away being super opposed to including it. I want the return of the EF-86 amps back to the lineup to make splash, and this amp is going to do it, and my fingers are crossed that more amps with the EF-86 will make their return if this one does well, because it's pretty unique to our lineup and they are all great, legendary amps. I'll probably eventually get a Z-28 combo, and I'm a head-cab guy, that's how good this amp sounds in this combo. /end rant
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Post by nmz on Jul 21, 2022 16:38:35 GMT -7
All the Ef-86 Z amps I’ve own inhaled pedals. All sounded much better in front than any of the amps with loops I had or my friends had at the time. There is a reason the KT45 was used as the front amp for several pedal companies at past NAMMs.
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Post by bubs42 on Jul 21, 2022 18:48:58 GMT -7
I voted for no FX Loop myself. My Z28’s everything sounds great in the front of them amp. Delays, Reverb, OD, Distortion and even when they are all on . LOL
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Post by adam on Jul 22, 2022 16:17:28 GMT -7
The more talk I hear, the more I think it's going to be something really special and makes me want one. I know it's been in development forever too, so there has to be something good with that too. Then I think I need another amp like a whole in my head. So maybe move some other amp, but they are all special and wouldn't want to part with any of them. I digress a bit. The loop issue/non-issue - There was a pedal show episode a couple weeks ago with Simon Jarret (Kinglsey Pedals) which had a neat discussion about loops. One part of that being Dan's Matchless in which he measured something like 32 volts at the effect send which lead to the discussion of having to take some tap of the amp and basically convolute that signal to something a pedal or line level device can deal with, then have to do everything in reverse to get that signal back up to where it needs to be back in the amp. Kind of sounds like no matter what you do with a loop, it's some sort of compromise to the original integrity of the signal. It kind of sounds like no matter how well it is designed or implemented in any amp, you are compromising something with purity of tone vs. a feature which might be used or not. If you take into account that Z has messed with this amp with loops or no loops, and he decides "no loop for this one", I think you'd just be inclined to trust him and consider it a feature that it doesn't have one. They also have the benefit of the whole staff and just decades and decades of experience at this stuff which includes seeing and repairing basically everything that has ever been good from the whole history of guitar amplification. I like Frankie's take on the whole thing, and big bonus points to him for having the best hair and beard on the forum. The pedal show vid where they get into this. Specifically where they talk about the loop on the Matchless. 45:59 is closer to the timestamp of talking about the matchless loop specifically, and interesting that it's another ef86 amp. I just thought it was a really interesting discussion. I think it's worth a watch and related to this discussion.
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Post by adam on Jul 22, 2022 16:18:05 GMT -7
And btw, that guy can really play. Wish I could play like that.
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Post by doctorice on Jul 23, 2022 11:19:43 GMT -7
And btw, that guy can really play. Wish I could play like that. Me too. Andy Timmons the prior week's TPS outing, then Simon Jarret. Wow.
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Post by KeithA on Jul 23, 2022 11:26:38 GMT -7
And btw, that guy can really play. Wish I could play like that. I live in Canada and I’ve been wanting one of his amps for years now. The wait list is just way too long.
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Post by Rockerfeller on Jul 23, 2022 18:52:39 GMT -7
Adam:
“If you take into account that Z has messed with this amp with loops or no loops, and he decides "no loop for this one", I think you'd just be inclined to trust him and consider it a feature that it doesn't have one.“
True, there is no need for a second opinion on this one
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Post by DRZ on Jul 27, 2022 13:03:02 GMT -7
OK another set back. Cabs were pushed back from week of 7/11 to 7/18, now I hope to receive my first order of RED 1x12 Z 28 MKII cabs by 8/4. Well it does give me time to have more units built and ready to ship on the new release date. We have 18 chassis built and tested ready to load I hope to have 12 more ready by week of August 15th. The saga continues. I hate things that are out of my control. Z Good news for a change, the first 20 1x12 RED Z 28 MKII cabs arrived today. Start loading them tomorrow . Boy its been a long road for this model. Z
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