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Post by Russell B on Sept 8, 2021 8:06:08 GMT -7
I built a pedal board for my Z-Luz without a buffer. I had a Boss Harmony pedal (I don't like the way it sounds, but that's another thread) on there and hoped that the buffer in it would work well. I pulled all my pedals off the new board and reworked the CAZ board with the Friedman Buffer Bay and was surprised just how much tone suck had been going on!
There will be no more boards without buffers.
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Post by adam on Sept 8, 2021 13:29:20 GMT -7
I usually can't tell for what I do, and there's usually a boss chorus with buffer on the board anyway, and I ditched the switching system (I swear I was getting more noise floor with that than without it.
A couple other thoughts...
1. I once put my maz way on the other side of the basement with a 50' guitar chord and a/b'd the Friedman buffer on and off and that was a huge difference, but probably to be expected.
2. Supposedly Santana likes the sound of a 50' chord. Might be just the ticket depending on the amp/guitar. I read that on the internet, so who knows.
3. Tone suck - a single boss DD3, or a boss me-5 (remember those?), or they also made a pedal board with built in modulation/delay/verb that you could add 3 other boss pedals and switch/program them, same thing. The later was a fantastic idea. Also, the boss me-5 sounds fantastic except it kills your tone. That thing has the circuitry of the old ce-2 and dd-2. Digitially controlled analog, and from a long time ago.
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Post by purpletele on Sept 8, 2021 19:31:53 GMT -7
I usually can't tell for what I do, and there's usually a boss chorus with buffer on the board anyway, and I ditched the switching system (I swear I was getting more noise floor with that than without it. A couple other thoughts... 1. I once put my maz way on the other side of the basement with a 50' guitar chord and a/b'd the Friedman buffer on and off and that was a huge difference, but probably to be expected. 2. Supposedly Santana likes the sound of a 50' chord. Might be just the ticket depending on the amp/guitar. I read that on the internet, so who knows. 3. Tone suck - a single boss DD3, or a boss me-5 (remember those?), or they also made a pedal board with built in modulation/delay/verb that you could add 3 other boss pedals and switch/program them, same thing. The later was a fantastic idea. Also, the boss me-5 sounds fantastic except it kills your tone. That thing has the circuitry of the old ce-2 and dd-2. Digitially controlled analog, and from a long time ago. I can't imagine using a 50' cord. I wonder how long Eddie VH cords were with the heat sink on them so they don't twist. I wonder if they were 18' cords or longer.
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Post by John on Sept 9, 2021 5:18:07 GMT -7
Supposedly Santana likes the sound of a 50' chord.
First of all, I think a lot of clubs I've played have been smaller than 50' total! This includes the audience/tables and bar area!
Second, I could see Santana using a 50' cable as that would suck a lot of crispy high end fizz away from the tone. And Boogies are known for a lot of high end fizz.
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Post by sharkboy on Sept 9, 2021 7:41:04 GMT -7
Supposedly Santana likes the sound of a 50' chord.
First of all, I think a lot of clubs I've played have been smaller than 50' total! This includes the audience/tables and bar area!
Second, I could see Santana using a 50' cable as that would suck a lot of crispy high end fizz away from the tone. And Boogies are known for a lot of high end fizz.
Santana also played old strings. He was an early inspiration to me about searching for tones I couldn’t quite get to. I mess around with a short pedal chain when I’m not plugging straight into the amp, and I haven’t played live in years.
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Tone Suck
Sept 11, 2021 6:43:34 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by goodez on Sept 11, 2021 6:43:34 GMT -7
Somewhat off topic but I’m not even half way through my first cup of coffee, which means my eyes and brain are still adjusting. As I’m reading through the thread I couldn’t figure out what “Santa” had to do with any of this. I mean, Christmas is getting closer I guess. It wasn’t until the 3rd reference that I realized it was Santana. My first chuckle of the day lol
He was an inspiration growing up for me as well. I run a Boss TU3 at the beginning of my chain and just installed a Suhr Buffer this year that goes prior to my delay and reverb. The Suhr also has the polarity reverse switch and a dry out.
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Post by smolder on Sept 11, 2021 14:35:26 GMT -7
Too many pedals without a buffer, too many buffers, cable too long or **** cable… all of those will suck tone.
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Post by zpilot on Sept 14, 2021 22:18:42 GMT -7
I used a Boss tuner for years at the beginning of my chain partly because of the buffer. It was definitely better than no buffer at all. I heard that the input impedance of the AnalogMan buffer worked better. I tried one and it does, at least for me. So that is what I use currently. As far as tone suck goes I can EQ back in most of what is lost without a buffer but the main improvement is the way my guitar vol/tone controls work.
As far as cable length goes I remember seeing Buddy Guy once in a club and he had a 100' cable. No buffer. Straight into his Marshall. He walked out of the club during one song and played his guitar out in the parking lot. I thought his tone was fine and obviously so did he.
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Post by pcns on Sept 27, 2021 12:49:30 GMT -7
with long cables you start to loose top end of your tone. it not always a bad thing, sometime a high end roll off sounds good. Depends on your set up and what guitar you are using
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Post by Russell B on Sept 27, 2021 16:29:49 GMT -7
with long cables you start to loose top end of your tone. it not always a bad thing, sometime a high end roll off sounds good. Depends on your set up and what guitar you are using I know! But, but you better have some good sounding cables. I happen to have some. 😎
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Post by helmi on Sept 27, 2021 16:34:28 GMT -7
He was an inspiration growing up for me as well. Santa or Santana?
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Post by helmi on Sept 27, 2021 16:38:14 GMT -7
with long cables you start to loose top end of your tone. it not always a bad thing, sometime a high end roll off sounds good. Depends on your set up and what guitar you are using I would ask you again why you don’t make a CERTAIN kind of cable, but I don’t want to get scolded, again! LOL
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Post by pcns on Sept 28, 2021 8:10:09 GMT -7
with long cables you start to loose top end of your tone. it not always a bad thing, sometime a high end roll off sounds good. Depends on your set up and what guitar you are using I would ask you again why you don’t make a CERTAIN kind of cable, but I don’t want to get scolded, again! LOL because they do tone suck!! ha ha!
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Post by helmi on Sept 28, 2021 13:57:33 GMT -7
I would ask you again why you don’t make a CERTAIN kind of cable, but I don’t want to get scolded, again! LOL because they do tone suck!! ha ha! One man’s tone suck is another man’s great tone! LOL
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Post by pcns on Sept 28, 2021 14:33:10 GMT -7
because they do tone suck!! ha ha! One man’s tone suck is another man’s great tone! LOL actually, you totally correct!
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