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Post by redtele on Jun 28, 2021 3:15:34 GMT -7
I hinted that I would write a follow-up post about my experiences with the Tone King Ironman attenuator and my Z Wreck Jr, and here it is!
I'm very glad that I waited before posting this, as my initial reaction upon using this attenuator was very poor, and I dreaded that I may had completely wasted my money. When I first played through it the sound was completely dead, all the top end had disappeared, the low end was mush, and I was just left with a mid-heavy weak mess that sounded nothing like the Wreck I was used to and loved. I figured that the master volume is way better than an attenuator, my dream of power amp distortion at home was over, and this attenuator was destined for the classifieds... I had recently swapped some tubes around to experiment and remembered that this required a slight change of EQ compared to what my 'live' sound needed, so bravely I moved the dials away from my 'tried and trusted' settings, and there it was, the chime and bark and bite was back and the added power amp distortion had eliminated all of that fizz that can occur with the gain high at low volumes. I kept clicking to add more attenuation, fearing that I would lose some clarity and/or mess up the sound, but with each click the sound just got quieter without any degradation of the tone and I got to -18db and the sound was still lively and rich but at much more manageable 'home' volumes. The next step of attenuation past -18db is pretty big on the Ironman, and requires the master volume to be increased to keep the sound loud enough to hear above the strings, but then this changes the gain and it's a different sound and not just my preferred tone but quieter so this is as far as I would probably ever go but still very impressive. The photo below of my settings is what I settled on, as i'm not a fan of super saturated sounds, and this amount of pre and power amp gain is enough for me, and the increased treble and reduced bass gets me back into the tone zone of 'everything at noon' when i'm playing loud with the band. The main difference is that the slight fizz that can accompany the sound when the volume is much higher than the master is now gone, so this seems like an expensive way to solve this little issue, but it does work. The only thing i'd say that's negative though, apart from the price of this attenuator, is that once the amp is set up this way there's nowhere you can really go with it. The dynamics are reduced and there's not much of that amazing clean-to-dirty transition thing available, which just using the master volume lets you keep, so it's a bit of a one trick pony but a fun ride and one that I am enjoying immensely at the moment. I have recently bought a Crowther Audio Hotcake pedal and this plays very nicely with my Wreck and allows me to go from completely clean to dirty and is therefore much more versatile in this regard, but if you just want natural amp distortion at volumes that won't get you evicted from most places, have deep pockets and really want to chase that final 5% of tone improvement, then I can recommend the Ironman attenuator with the Wreck Junior. Disclaimer: other attenuators are available
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Post by helmi on Jun 28, 2021 3:38:01 GMT -7
Now, this question is meant with NO sarcasm at all, but is a attenuator really needed with a 15 w amp with a master volume?
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Post by adam on Jun 28, 2021 5:59:45 GMT -7
I've said it before, but I've tried the OX (1300) and Two Notes Torpedo (750) and immediately hated how the attenuator worked. In the past have tried a coupler others that were terrible. Haven't tried the Iron Man, but just want to say I think the Z Air Brake is perfect. I don't hear or feel anything different in the tone.
Side note, tried the Suhr reactive load recently and didn't get on with that one either. It just sounded thin to me. I have much better luck using a neve or wam audio di and using a regular speaker cab for the load (I put a cab face down on the floor in another room. Just my 2 cents on this stuff.
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Post by adam on Jun 28, 2021 6:03:35 GMT -7
Now, this question is meant with NO sarcasm at all, but is a attenuator really needed with a 15 w amp with a master volume? Not "needed" at all. If I really crank up the maz 18, yes, it's too loud, but it's a different sound really pushing the power tubes and tranny. To me, it's like getting a whole new amp when I do that.
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Post by Russell B on Jun 28, 2021 6:28:03 GMT -7
I've not tried an attenuator with my Wreck Jr. I guess I could try it out. I do know that he Jr really opens up when you get the master up. An attenuator may help with that.
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Post by redtele on Jun 28, 2021 8:30:22 GMT -7
Now, this question is meant with NO sarcasm at all, but is a attenuator really needed with a 15 w amp with a master volume? Not "needed" at all. If I really crank up the maz 18, yes, it's too loud, but it's a different sound really pushing the power tubes and tranny. To me, it's like getting a whole new amp when I do that. helmi I'm coming from the same place as adam here, as I do not think it's "needed" and I have no plans to use it outside of the house, but it does almost give me another amp to enjoy at home with the ability to balance the pre and power amp gain without shaking the walls. I have tried to achieve the same sound by using just the master volume, but it's not exactly identical, and that top-end fizz that many have noted is simply not there anymore with the attenuator allowing for the master to be raised slightly more to match the gain/volume control. Living in a shoebox-sized house in the UK with paper-thin walls, sometimes I have to really compromise my volume when playing at home, especially when the neighbour has stated she's enrolled on an online course a couple of days per week at home, so I would like to be considerate and not annoy anyone unnecessarily. I didn't actually buy the Ironman specifically for this amp, as i'm on the lookout for a nice 5E3 Deluxe and this attenuator is really planning for that eventuality, but as it's here and 8 Ohms then I might as well use it and see what it sounds like. One last thing, yes the Wreck has a master volume but there's no rules saying you cannot use both a master volume and attenuator at the same time. This is what i've done with my Vox AC30 for years as the DR Z Brakelite fitted inside this beastly-loud Vox amp knocks about -8db on the third click I think, then adding in some more volume reduction by utilising the amp's master volume gets me a very usable AC30 grind at home levels.
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Post by Don A on Jun 28, 2021 9:34:20 GMT -7
I hinted that I would write a follow-up post about my experiences with the Tone King Ironman attenuator and my Z Wreck Jr, and here it is! I'm very glad that I waited before posting this, as my initial reaction upon using this attenuator was very poor, and I dreaded that I may had completely wasted my money. When I first played through it the sound was completely dead, all the top end had disappeared, the low end was mush, and I was just left with a mid-heavy weak mess that sounded nothing like the Wreck I was used to and loved. I figured that the master volume is way better than an attenuator, my dream of power amp distortion at home was over, and this attenuator was destined for the classifieds... I had recently swapped some tubes around to experiment and remembered that this required a slight change of EQ compared to what my 'live' sound needed, so bravely I moved the dials away from my 'tried and trusted' settings, and there it was, the chime and bark and bite was back and the added power amp distortion had eliminated all of that fizz that can occur with the gain high at low volumes. I kept clicking to add more attenuation, fearing that I would lose some clarity and/or mess up the sound, but with each click the sound just got quieter without any degradation of the tone and I got to -18db and the sound was still lively and rich but at much more manageable 'home' volumes. The next step of attenuation past -18db is pretty big on the Ironman, and requires the master volume to be increased to keep the sound loud enough to hear above the strings, but then this changes the gain and it's a different sound and not just my preferred tone but quieter so this is as far as I would probably ever go but still very impressive. The photo below of my settings is what I settled on, as i'm not a fan of super saturated sounds, and this amount of pre and power amp gain is enough for me, and the increased treble and reduced bass gets me back into the tone zone of 'everything at noon' when i'm playing loud with the band. The main difference is that the slight fizz that can accompany the sound when the volume is much higher than the master is now gone, so this seems like an expensive way to solve this little issue, but it does work. The only thing i'd say that's negative though, apart from the price of this attenuator, is that once the amp is set up this way there's nowhere you can really go with it. The dynamics are reduced and there's not much of that amazing clean-to-dirty transition thing available, which just using the master volume lets you keep, so it's a bit of a one trick pony but a fun ride and one that I am enjoying immensely at the moment. I have recently bought a Crowther Audio Hotcake pedal and this plays very nicely with my Wreck and allows me to go from completely clean to dirty and is therefore much more versatile in this regard, but if you just want natural amp distortion at volumes that won't get you evicted from most places, have deep pockets and really want to chase that final 5% of tone improvement, then I can recommend the Ironman attenuator with the Wreck Junior. Disclaimer: other attenuators are available Thank you for sharing this!
I'm fortunate that I can use the Volume and Master settings in your pic in my basement "studio" without an attenuator. My goal with an attenuator with this amp is to be able to use this Volume setting with the Master all the way up, or close to that. As good as the Master is, the amp's ability to clean up from the guitar is much, much better with the Master turned way up and I like to get a little grind from the power tubes.
Unfortunately, the complaints that you have with the Iron Man are the same that I have with my THD Hot Plate. I had hoped it would be better.
It seems that any form of attenuation is kind of the "condom" of the world of guitar amplification.
I have a Crowther Hotcake and it works very well with this amp! It can even help my Princeton Reverb have a cranked Vox-like sound.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jun 28, 2021 10:50:06 GMT -7
I've probably owned 5 or 6 attenuators over the years - Weber, THD, Dr. Z - and they all had strengths and weaknesses, but all affect tone if you really needed to heavily attenuate an amp. My most recent, and LAST, attenuator purchase was a Fryette PowerStation -- it's actually a re-amper and while very expensive, I could have saved all the money I spent on the other attenuators if I had just bought the Fryette. It will tame a 50w amp to literally any level with essential no impact on tone. In addition, it can take a micro amp (5w or smaller) and pump it up to 50w. It's a very expense, but tremendously useful device if you want to crank an amp in a house or small club.
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Post by Don A on Jun 28, 2021 11:18:52 GMT -7
The Fryette Power Station looks impressive! It actually completely attenuates the amp's signal and plays it back through its own power amp. Like many other players, I've held out for a more portable solution- one that doesn't need to be plugged in. If you think of it, the price isn't too bad- most attenuators only work with one impedance- I'd need three of them to use with my Z Wreck Jr (8 ohm), Vibrolux Reverb (4 ohm), and my JCM 800 (16 ohm). One Power Station would cover all of my amps.
My only fear with the Power Station is that it's that awesome and I sold my Budda Twinmaster for nothing!
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Post by ME on Jun 28, 2021 12:33:48 GMT -7
I use the BrakeLite with every amp I’ve owned. Before that I had a Sholtz Power Soak, not as good. The attenuator gives another set of tones at home and allows the amp a better chance to sit well in the mix live and keep the sound you like. ME
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Post by "Z" Steve on Jun 28, 2021 14:56:06 GMT -7
No "condom"nation allowed here! I've used the same term in regards to IEM's - or, safe sets.
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Post by adam on Jun 28, 2021 15:12:27 GMT -7
I've probably owned 5 or 6 attenuators over the years - Weber, THD, Dr. Z - and they all had strengths and weaknesses, but all affect tone if you really needed to heavily attenuate an amp. My most recent, and LAST, attenuator purchase was a Fryette PowerStation -- it's actually a re-amper and while very expensive, I could have saved all the money I spent on the other attenuators if I had just bought the Fryette. It will tame a 50w amp to literally any level with essential no impact on tone. In addition, it can take a micro amp (5w or smaller) and pump it up to 50w. It's a very expense, but tremendously useful device if you want to crank an amp in a house or small club. I thought about that one and would have tried it if I didn't find home with the Z one. I sort of dreaded the idea of another thing to plug in and tubes to go bad, but the concept is a winner for sure. I bet it sounds better if you crank the volume on the Fryette. Then you get another set of tubes to punish and add character.
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Post by jsdirt on Jun 29, 2021 10:29:52 GMT -7
I have been using my wreck jr with the ox box for the last several months and it has been an incredible combination! The tones I'm getting are exactly what I've been striving for, extremely detailed, very full, and very responsive. I have not needed to change my settings much at all while attenuating. I run the master dimed while in this configuration to emulate the original wreck. I mostly use the simulated cabs straight from the ox and turn the attenuator all the way down, essentially acting as a load box. I think the cab simulations sound best like this as they are designed around the internal load network and when the speaker is on you are getting a blended load of internal and the speaker itself. But, the attenuation in the ox is just as good, if not better, than other attenuators I have tried. The wreck jr is my favorite amp to date and I think any attenuator can really bring it to life, even more so than the great master volume control. Thanks for a great amp Doc!
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