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Post by bubs42 on Mar 7, 2021 9:27:46 GMT -7
So my buddy Doug is a killer player and a Z owner. He plays a Maz 18 (He purchased brand new) at almost every gig. Every time I buy an amp I take it to his house and let him play it, but since the pandemic hit, we have only been able to hand out once. After all this time we decided it was safe to get together and he was itching to play the Z28 before I did something stupid like sell it for another amp (He knows me).
I brought it in, he sat it on top of his 2061 Marshall 2x12 loaded with G12H30's (sans attenuation) with the knobs just like I had them set when I left the house. He hit the front end with a Way Huge Green Rhino and a EP Booster and OML it was glorious. He was very smitten with it and he is really hard to get excited about anything.
I left it there for him to enjoy for a while, its the only way I get to him to tolerate my poor playing. LOL
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Post by Seńor Verde on Mar 8, 2021 12:19:11 GMT -7
Cool! I've been really interested in the Z-28 recently and posted on the Facebook Group that I wanted to trade my Cure for a Z-28. I didn't really expect anyone to bite on the offer and nobody has.
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Post by "Z" Steve on Mar 8, 2021 13:03:29 GMT -7
I think I read that the Doc is working on a new version of the 28 - no release date as of yet. Being a previous Z28 owner I am curious which EF86 he might choose for the preamp section. I've had a few Z amps since '08 and the Z28 has been my favorite of them all.
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Post by bubs42 on Mar 8, 2021 21:23:04 GMT -7
He killed the MKII last I heard.
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Post by DRZ on Mar 8, 2021 23:40:59 GMT -7
He killed the MKII last I heard. Well, KILLING the Z 28 MKII is a bit of a harsh way to put it, though basically correct. As I continued to interact with players that want a new Z 28 I found the loyalty to the original product very strong. The new MKII is a Cathode biased 5881 based amp using the Z 28 foundation. It is an amazing sounding amp , but not an exact sonic reproduction of the original and well loved Z 28. So I felt a Z 28 re-release would better satisfy the need for those looking for a new Z 28. Which I must say was my favorite amp, I have stated this many times in the past . I only stopped producing them as sales slowed and new models were being introduced, my MO for the last 33 years. Look for the Z 28 to be re-released late this year or early 2022, maybe as a limited run . Right now my plate is very full with Z Wreck Jr., CAZ 45, MAZ 18 MKII, Z Plus , and Z Master orders which are currently overwhelming, to my great joy. As for the preposed Z 28 MKII I will release it as a new model so not to confuse those that want the original Z 28 . It will have a new name and come out in a future date. Z
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Post by bubs42 on Mar 9, 2021 8:44:14 GMT -7
He killed the MKII last I heard. Well, KILLING the Z 28 MKII is a bit of a harsh way to put it, though basically correct. As I continued to interact with players that want a new Z 28 I found the loyalty to the original product very strong. The new MKII is a Cathode biased 5881 based amp using the Z 28 foundation. It is an amazing sounding amp , but not an exact sonic reproduction of the original and well loved Z 28. So I felt a Z 28 re-release would better satisfy the need for those looking for a new Z 28. Which I must say was my favorite amp, I have stated this many times in the past . I only stopped producing them as sales slowed and new models were being introduced, my MO for the last 33 years. Look for the Z 28 to be re-released late this year or early 2022, maybe as a limited run . Right now my plate is very full with Z Wreck Jr., CAZ 45, MAZ 18 MKII, Z Plus , and Z Master orders which are currently overwhelming, to my great joy. As for the preposed Z 28 MKII I will release it as a new model so not to confuse those that want the original Z 28 . It will have a new name and come out in a future date. Z I await maybe a little harsh. LOL All of this is completely understandable and you're on fire right now with some amazing amps. I have the SRZ65, the Ghia and the Z28, but I would like one more and have not been able to make up my mind. So many great Z's!
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Post by loucardguitar (Johnathan) on Mar 9, 2021 16:15:04 GMT -7
He killed the MKII last I heard. Well, KILLING the Z 28 MKII is a bit of a harsh way to put it, though basically correct. As I continued to interact with players that want a new Z 28 I found the loyalty to the original product very strong. The new MKII is a Cathode biased 5881 based amp using the Z 28 foundation. It is an amazing sounding amp , but not an exact sonic reproduction of the original and well loved Z 28. So I felt a Z 28 re-release would better satisfy the need for those looking for a new Z 28. Which I must say was my favorite amp, I have stated this many times in the past . I only stopped producing them as sales slowed and new models were being introduced, my MO for the last 33 years. Look for the Z 28 to be re-released late this year or early 2022, maybe as a limited run . Right now my plate is very full with Z Wreck Jr., CAZ 45, MAZ 18 MKII, Z Plus , and Z Master orders which are currently overwhelming, to my great joy. As for the preposed Z 28 MKII I will release it as a new model so not to confuse those that want the original Z 28 . It will have a new name and come out in a future date. Z Sweet!! Will definitely be getting in line for the Z28 re-release!!! Saving back the bucks now!!
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Post by thelefty300 on Mar 12, 2021 8:18:59 GMT -7
Ready for the re-release as well. The original circuit with a decent MV is all I need.
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Post by DRZ on Mar 12, 2021 16:47:06 GMT -7
Ready for the re-release as well. The original circuit with a decent MV is all I need. Sorry to report I spent the day today working on a Z 28 and trying again to get MV to work to my satisfaction, and didn't. As some may recall due to the Z 28's Fixed bias a Post Phase Inverter MV didn't work well. Any amp with Cathode Bias is simple to add a PPIMV with a Dual ganged pot and achieve wonderful results. When I tried months ago to build a Z 28 MKII with MV I was forced to switch to Cathode bias and to make up for wattage loss and the loosey goosey bass response from 6V6's Cathode Biased by using a pair of 5881's to achieve equal wattage and tighter response. This change the sonic characteristic of Z 28 from its original well loved tone. So much so that I decided to release the Z 28 MKII as a new product with a different name, I spoke of this in posts before. The stock re-release of Z 28 has the same beautiful rich Clean tone and the EF 86 front -end to suck in any pedal. My thoughts at this time is to install a built in Z Break Attenuator to achieve a nice volume reduction without the use of a sub standard MV. Works in progress. But boy that Z 28 today with a Strat plugged in to it was pure heaven. Z
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Mar 12, 2021 19:38:40 GMT -7
But boy that Z 28 today with a Strat plugged in to it was pure heaven. Z And that right there be Gospel!
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Post by bubs42 on Mar 13, 2021 16:11:28 GMT -7
DRZ It would be a notoble bonus to have a build in Z Brake. I never use my Z without it and thing it works very well with it. I could not get my friend to try it with the Brake Lite so I took it home with me, but he sent me text last night that when he got it into the "Sweet Spot" for him it was too loud. I just said, "You should have let me leave the Brake Lite". He loves the amp, i'm banking that he would really love an M12. I think he has been using the Maz 18 for 10 years straight now as his main amp. I know he would never part with it.
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Post by goodez on Mar 30, 2021 6:46:37 GMT -7
I know the master volume is out and most shouldn’t be too upset due to the option of a airbrake/brakelite but I run mine on 2 with the volume slightly rolled off and it cleans up beautifully. Obviously, I’m somewhat biased as I bought one of the last z28’s from Humbucker music several years ago but it’s good to see Doc is sticking with the roots on this one. I do have a question though, in previous threads there was mention of bass reduction and possibly effects loop (again I’m fine with the front end of the z28)?
I guess I’m just curious how this plays out in terms of a future z28 (update). The Maz was different but it took on the Mkii label, while the Lux was a little more off the radar, yet retained the original name.
Doc-“ Metro Amps Zero Loss E/F loop, fitted with all rich sounding Jupiter Vintage Coupling Caps, adjusted the circuit for a more balanced response, a touch less low end”.
I know BigBen55 brought up this suggestion-“ Doc Z, since you're listening, I know it being FIXED bias is an integral part of the Z28. But if you could add external bias test/adjustment points, that would be awesome.” I believe Mercury has something similar?
Or at the end of the day...just leave it alone, put it back out on the shelves and leave a good thing alone 🎉
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Post by bubs42 on Mar 30, 2021 9:04:50 GMT -7
I owned a 3 Monkeys Orangutan Jr and its "Boost" function was basically what I would call a bass lift. I never used it as a boost, I used it with the boost off which yielded a thicker tone for Telecasters and when I went to a Humbucker loaded guitar I would turn the boost on which cut the bass. The sounds wasn't so dramatic when you did it this way, both tones sounded great and I really dug that amp. The band was just too loud for that little 15 watt amp to keep up. Its kind of why I got all excited when we started talking about a 6v6 Ghia.
I love the tightness of the Z28's bottom end and simple amps. I love the Z Amps that just sound good an limit my ability to get in my own way. LOL
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Post by tumeniamps (Tom) on Apr 20, 2021 6:07:17 GMT -7
Ready for the re-release as well. The original circuit with a decent MV is all I need. Sorry to report I spent the day today working on a Z 28 and trying again to get MV to work to my satisfaction, and didn't. As some may recall due to the Z 28's Fixed bias a Post Phase Inverter MV didn't work well. Any amp with Cathode Bias is simple to add a PPIMV with a Dual ganged pot and achieve wonderful results. When I tried months ago to build a Z 28 MKII with MV I was forced to switch to Cathode bias and to make up for wattage loss and the loosey goosey bass response from 6V6's Cathode Biased by using a pair of 5881's to achieve equal wattage and tighter response. This change the sonic characteristic of Z 28 from its original well loved tone. So much so that I decided to release the Z 28 MKII as a new product with a different name, I spoke of this in posts before. The stock re-release of Z 28 has the same beautiful rich Clean tone and the EF 86 front -end to suck in any pedal. My thoughts at this time is to install a built in Z Break Attenuator to achieve a nice volume reduction without the use of a sub standard MV. Works in progress. But boy that Z 28 today with a Strat plugged in to it was pure heaven. Z Here is my Z-28 that Andy Fuchs added a PPIMV to. While you are correct, it isn't as good as your master volumes in other amps, it is quite effective for the most part and really good at lowering the overall volume a few db and retaining a good deal of the original tone. www.flickr.com/photos/183123970@N04/51128343265/in/dateposted-public/
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Post by DRZ on Apr 20, 2021 7:02:55 GMT -7
Not a true ringing endorsement. I'm sure it will decrease the overall volume , but at the price of altering the original signal and tone . I believe a well designed attenuator would do much better. Anytime you add an additional coupling cap to a signal path it will change the signals response. Andy's a sharp engineer but you can't alter Electronic Theory . I'm working on a PPIMV for the Fixed Bias Z 28 that uses no additional caps . Z
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Post by tumeniamps (Tom) on Apr 20, 2021 7:24:12 GMT -7
Not a true ringing endorsement. I'm sure it will decrease the overall volume , but at the price of altering the original signal and tone . I believe a well designed attenuator would do much better. Anytime you add an additional coupling cap to a signal path it will change the signals response. Andy's a sharp engineer but you can't alter Electronic Theory . I'm working on a PPIMV for the Fixed Bias Z 28 that uses no additional caps . Z I agree 100% Doc and I now own 15 of your amps. I will say though, it does a nice job at shaving off some volume and lets it grind nicely at a respectable home volume. I also use my Airbrake, but the MV is nice for a quick volume cut without hooking up anything additional. I love the master on all of my Z's that have them. You have it down!!!
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Post by trojanhov on Apr 20, 2021 11:54:53 GMT -7
Not a true ringing endorsement. I'm sure it will decrease the overall volume , but at the price of altering the original signal and tone . I believe a well designed attenuator would do much better. Anytime you add an additional coupling cap to a signal path it will change the signals response. Andy's a sharp engineer but you can't alter Electronic Theory . I'm working on a PPIMV for the Fixed Bias Z 28 that uses no additional caps . Z Ppimv with no tone Loss is like talking dirty to me. I’ll likely be buying another z28 when you’re done.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Apr 20, 2021 12:07:05 GMT -7
All this talk lately of the Z28 and Doc talkin' about a possible PPIMV has me all hyped up. The Z28 was always a straight-up solid tone machine; just couldn't get that amp to sound less than awesome. (Loud yes, for sure; but less-than-awesome, no!)
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Post by bubs42 on May 5, 2021 20:22:40 GMT -7
MIne just returned home after a short term loan. I love the Z28, as well as the RT66. I really find they all take me somewhere else, I have really enjoyed my new found love for z amps.
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Post by chopperwolf on Jun 4, 2021 13:14:13 GMT -7
Hello, I’m new here and New to Z’s. Just bought my first one and it’s a Z28. Got it at a steal, I think. Been reading up on a bunch of posts. I’m happy to be here and to be learning so much, especially the AMA vids. Thanks for that Doc!
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Post by Ridgeback on Jun 4, 2021 13:17:58 GMT -7
Welcome to the forum. In hindsight, I wish that my first Z would have been the Z-28. You started at the top of the list IMO. Congratulations.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Jul 10, 2021 19:48:20 GMT -7
Alright bubs42 sell me on a 28. You know I've had Ghia's which is one of your other loves, so I know what that does. Currently have a Maz 38 and thinking of adding a head. I like that this has both a different pre-amp and power tube line up. Given your experience with a Maz player hit me with the what you think this amp adds to the arsenal.
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Post by Seńor Verde on Jul 11, 2021 9:39:07 GMT -7
I'm not Bubs, but I've had several Maz 18 MKI amps and really do like them, but to me, the Z-28 is a little fuller and has more character. I haven't gigged it yet, but so far, I like it more than the Maz. Having said that, I'm also not planning on selling the Maz.
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Post by bubs42 on Jul 11, 2021 10:42:58 GMT -7
Alright bubs42 sell me on a 28. You know I've had Ghia's which is one of your other loves, so I know what that does. Currently have a Maz 38 and thinking of adding a head. I like that this has both a different pre-amp and power tube line up. Given your experience with a Maz player hit me with the what you think this amp adds to the arsenal. I was just checking in because I’m getting excited that the Z28 is on the way. I really like having all these Z laying around, but the Z28 is really a killer amp that I love to play. Here is how it started, my buddy that has the Maz has a 64 Princeton that I liked to play and wanted to get Princeton. I stumbled on to a 71 Modded by Allen Amps with his mod to bring in the midrange and grind on the back panel. I played the 64 and that amp, and I also let my friend take it on a gig so he could play them in stereo. Sounded great, I had no issues right up to the point when someone told me that if I wanted a Princeton with more mids I should try a Brown Face Deluxe. Well I started looking and didn’t find anything that I wanted to take a chance on, but I did find a good deal on a Z28 so I took a stab at it. Played it with 2x10 Z Cab along side the Princeton and they were very close to being kindred spirits but the Z had tighter Bottom End, and recovered faster, and just sounded more detailed. At that point I had not become a Z Junky yet, so I wasn’t biased, but that amp really sold me on a simple amps. Volume 9 o’clock, bass below 9 o’clock and the highs taken up until you hear it start to bring in a bit of gain then back off to get max highs without giving me more gain. Works great with 10’s and 12’s, matter of fact running my 2x10 and a 1x12 at the Same time is my preferred preference. But at home it was a Z28 into a Greenback or a Tone Tubby. It’s gritty, but clear, and loud. If you like to use pedals its a great for hitting it with FX or Gain, it loves them without getting mushy.
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Post by bubs42 on Jul 11, 2021 12:43:01 GMT -7
I've never been a fan of the Brown Deluxe. The least "Fendery" of all the vintage models (regardless of era) I have spent any time with. I've owned two Brown Princetons however and the Z-28 is much more in the Brown Princeton camp IMO but with the huge iron, it holds together much better. The EF86 just adds some "special sauce" in terms of touch and dynamics. I refer to the Z-28 as a Brown Princeton on steroids. My 2 cents. That is one of the problem of comparing it to anything else. It’s its own beast but everyone needs a reference. I also don’t think that everyone loves the EF86, it feels different your pedals act differently, but as far as handling pedal pedals the EF86 seems to translate a pedal better than the 12ax7. Someone asked a while back “What Z does a Dumble”, I don’t think one person mentioned the Z28. I love the Dumble Sound, I’ve owned Fuchs’s, and other “Dumble” style amps. The Z28 getting smacked with up front with Zendrive (Vanilla Zendrive) is pretty damn glorious. I use an OD11 and a Vanilla Zendrive with the VZen is more open than the darker stock Zen. When Doc talked about releasing the Z28MKII I though being to really open it up and get more gain out of the amp that it may just be in the “Dumble” Camp. Back to the OP, I can’t really talk you in to anything your going to have to experience it for yourself.
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Post by Seńor Verde on Jul 11, 2021 18:09:54 GMT -7
I read a couple threads where people talked about the Therapy sounding Dumble-ish. When I ran a Klon clone with mine I thought it had a resemblance.
Last week I ran my Z-28 with WGS Invader and Barber Direct Drive Super Sport. With the Invader it was really smooth. Again, I thought there was a Dumble-ish resemblance. Didn't stick with that speaker very long, but I might need to revisit it, just for fun and curiosity.
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