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Post by bigben55 on Feb 17, 2021 12:14:58 GMT -7
Last week I traded Z's, my Z28 1x12 combo for his Remedy and 2x12 cab. Its a 2008, non master volume model, the cab is a matching custom built horizontal 2x12 with a G12H30 70th anniv and a WGS ET65. Ive been waiting to write a review until I had time to run all three guitars thru it at gig volume, and run the pedal boards with them. I just spent 3 hours putting it thru its paces.
Ive never had a plexi. Or a classic Marshall. I was a Fender amp guy for a long time. @10 years ago, I got a Z28 2x10, it was my #1 amp for 5 yrs, I traded it for a 1966 Super Reverb, missed it and bought another, a 1x12, which was my #1 for the past 4 yrs. I always liked the 2x10 better honestly, and the Z28 ruled with pedals. Along the way, i added a Valvetrain Saratoga to the mix and actually PREFERRED it to the Z28 plugged straight in, but not with pedals(though still good!). It was just time to try something else.
The Remedy is flat out AWESOME! The cleans are WAY better than I expected them to be. I HAVE to love an amps clean tone FIRST and foremost, and I do. The crunch/overdrive tones are just massive. Thick, full of sustain but bright and cutting at the same time. The guitar volume knob clean up is great. Dialing it in, it IS definitely an "adjust with your ears, not your eyes" amp. Dialing in a strat, a tele, and a P90 guitar, the amps EQ adjustments are exactly as you think they'd be. Less treble more mids and bass for the strat, less mids for P90s, etc. That said, the TMB knobs aren't AS powerful as the Z28...theyre more like fine tuners. Unlike the few plexi's ive played, i didn't prefer everything "dimed."
The 20 watt/40 watt switch works perfectly. Not huge volume drop going from 20 to 40, but NO tone change. You move more air with 40, theres more clean headroom, but 20 watts should cover most any gig id play. Nice to know there's more horses under the hood though. I was able to match the Z Drive pedal into the clean Remedy for great tones for each guitar.
In conclusion, I love it. Its a much better compliment to the Valvetrain than the Z28. Those 2 were too similar. The Remedy gives me a big amp/little amp pair. I have a Weber attenuator that works just fine with it for home use. Who would have figured it would take Dr.Z to make a Marshall guy out of me!
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Post by John on Feb 18, 2021 6:13:05 GMT -7
Please please please....find some way to play the amp with some greenbacks. (or something in the greenback camp: Clones, creambacks...etc)
I've tried my Remedy with a G12H30 and it was (to my ears) the worst possible speaker for the Remedy. Now that's not to say the speaker wouldn't sound ok when balanced with something else. Like the G12H/V30 in a Z-best. Or the G12H30/ET65 you have.
There are some certain amps that just pair up with certain speakers really well. The Remedy and Greenbacks is one. When the Therapy came out, people heavily gravitated to pairing with a V30. Some amps are just that way.
So I would encourage you to find someone who has a cabinet loaded with greenbacks and give it a go. It's the sound of classic rock.
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Post by bigben55 on Feb 18, 2021 9:06:29 GMT -7
I dont think the ET65/G12H30 combo sounds bad at all. They must balance each other out some. I dont feel the cab has too much/not enough of anything. But I know what you're saying.
Id probably just buy 1 Greenback first, mix it with each speaker I already have. Wouldn't a Greenback/G12H30 make a good combo?
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Feb 18, 2021 9:08:53 GMT -7
John does not lie. The Remedy + a Greenback-style speaker (speakers having "small" ~25-oz. ceramic magnets, and aimed at the "British" sound) is THE sound of rock & roll. The ET-65 (by itself) would be an example of this too. However, I have to say that I agree with you about the great clean tones of the Remedy. Even though it's expected to have a great semi-distorted rock sound, it does have very convincing Fender/American-ish cleans ( evidence here) and will be especially good at that if you use a scooped-sounding, larger-magnet speaker like the Celestion G12H-30. (It'll be loud & cleaner, not as much like that luscious, mid-heavy classic rock thing that John's talking about.)
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Post by bigben55 on Feb 18, 2021 9:27:04 GMT -7
What would the expected tonal differences be, if I exchanged the ET65 for a Greenback? And "which" Greenback? Isn't the ET65 supposed to be a G12M-65/Creamback clone? And isn't THAT supposed to be a higher powered Greenback?
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Post by John on Feb 18, 2021 12:22:33 GMT -7
Personally, I would use the greenback with the ET-65....and take out the G12H30.
The ET-65 has a HUGE dustcap, and that knocks off all the highs. (That's why I think it's good with buzzy/fizzy type amps) And perhaps it does help counteract the highs of the G12H30.
The regular greenback is only a 25 watts speaker. I used a Creamback M...the high powered greenback clone. (65 watts) powerful enough to run the remedy at full power.
I've never understood how or why Celestion says the G12-65 is like a greenback. I don't think so.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Feb 19, 2021 7:19:31 GMT -7
What would the expected tonal differences be, if I exchanged the ET65 for a Greenback? And "which" Greenback? Isn't the ET65 supposed to be a G12M-65/Creamback clone? And isn't THAT supposed to be a higher powered Greenback? Well... yes! However, at this point, I think we've entered a zone of insidiousness (did I just make that word up?) where we're evaluating clones of clones versus other clones to see which one is more like the "original," if that makes sense. Which it kind of doesn't, anymore... So... I don't have specific experience with Celestion's actual (re-released clone) Heritage series G12-65 [which, yes, at its time was meant to be a high-powered Greenback; and it spent several years in Marshall cabs as the standard speaker] however I have directly A/B'd a WGS ET-65 versus a Scumback M75 65W (itself intended to be a pre-Rola Greenback clone) in real-time using a Radial Cabbone w/instantaneous switching. Speakers were mounted next to each other in a 2x12 cab, wired separately--so, cab parameters are a perfect constant in this situation. I can honestly say that the ET-65 was incredibly only slightly distinguishable from the M75 65-watter... it really is that good, to my ears. And yes, the M75 itself is to my ears THE best-sounding (granted I'm not saying "perfectly vintage accurate" here, because I don't own any vintage Greenbacks) that I have evaluated in my controlled environment... which is a lot of speakers. Massive disclaimer: notice I've tried to imply "to my ears" as much as possible; of course, everyone's ears and opinions always vary.
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Post by bigben55 on Feb 19, 2021 8:01:31 GMT -7
Thx. Im gonna leave the cab as is for a while. I like it, think it sounds good clean or dirty. I know a guy with a 2x12 cab with the lower 20 watt Greenbacks that I could probably arrange to play thru. I'm sure it will crunch better, sound more plexi authentic, but I dont want to lose that clean tone and headroom that I like. Itll be easy to hear if I do. And Greenbacks are easy to come by if I live them.
Ive never loved Greenbacks. I dont really like speaker distortion, and in 1x12 combos found that cranked, they mush out. I liked it clean in a Z28, hated it dimed. Dr Z recommends the Greenback in a Z28, and he's usually right on, but I did not like it. The G12H30 was much better. Maybe 2 Greenbacks in a closed cab makes a difference. The only closed 2x12 cab ive ever had was loaded with Vintage 30s. Liked them then, as I was doing hard rock, but wouldn't like them now.
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Post by bigben55 on Feb 25, 2021 16:56:00 GMT -7
Knowing I have the ET65/G12H30 combo now how much different would 2 UK Greenbacks sound? My only Greenback experience is in open back 1x12 combos. I imagine a closed back 2x12 changed things. Will the GBs be basically as loud? After days on jamming the Remedy, i found i like it best crankin' with the guitar rolled back for cleans. And I assume the GPS will sound better cranked. Personally, I would use the greenback with the ET-65....and take out the G12H30. The ET-65 has a HUGE dustcap, and that knocks off all the highs. (That's why I think it's good with buzzy/fizzy type amps) And perhaps it does help counteract the highs of the G12H30. The regular greenback is only a 25 watts speaker. I used a Creamback M...the high powered greenback clone. (65 watts) powerful enough to run the remedy at full power. I've never understood how or why Celestion says the G12-65 is like a greenback. I don't think so.
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Post by "Z" Steve on Feb 25, 2021 17:28:04 GMT -7
In a previous life I had a Remedy and a 1x12 Z cab. I started with the Celestion Gold because I had it from a Maz 18 I had, but I went with the Creamback 65 and loved it. Rarely was I able to use the amp at 40 watts, but the few times I did it was nothing short of glorious. Enjoy your amp!
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Post by John on Feb 26, 2021 6:36:23 GMT -7
Knowing I have the ET65/G12H30 combo now how much different would 2 UK Greenbacks sound? My only Greenback experience is in open back 1x12 combos. I imagine a closed back 2x12 changed things. Will the GBs be basically as loud? After days on jamming the Remedy, i found i like it best crankin' with the guitar rolled back for cleans. And I assume the GPS will sound better cranked. Personally, I would use the greenback with the ET-65....and take out the G12H30. The ET-65 has a HUGE dustcap, and that knocks off all the highs. (That's why I think it's good with buzzy/fizzy type amps) And perhaps it does help counteract the highs of the G12H30. The regular greenback is only a 25 watts speaker. I used a Creamback M...the high powered greenback clone. (65 watts) powerful enough to run the remedy at full power. I've never understood how or why Celestion says the G12-65 is like a greenback. I don't think so. I can't really say what the difference in tone would be. I know what greenbacks sound like, but I don't know what an ET-65 and G12H30 sound like together. As I said before, I could see the high end roll off of the ET-65 (because of the large dust cap) complimenting the crispy highs of the G12H30. The G12H30 is a scooped sounding speaker. Lots of bass (big magnet) and crispy highs...but at the expense of mids. And the guitar is a mid instrument. Greenbacks are mid oriented speakers with smaller magnets, so they don't have a lot of bass (which to me is a good thing) which lets the mids come out more. And those smaller magnets can't handle a lot of power, so the speaker breaks up early. Which to me, is a good thing. A speaker struggling to keep up when hit with a lot of power can be a cool thing. (it can also be something that others do not like.)
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Post by bubs42 on Feb 26, 2021 13:54:33 GMT -7
Having both I would say that your gong to get earlier breakup and less DB right out of the gate. A less tighter low end and a bit less weight in the high notes. The ET65 just has more headroom than a Greenback, its more open sounding. I like both but that is because they do different things.
If you like the Greenback sound the Creamback is a great speaker that will hand a Remedy with ease.
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Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Feb 27, 2021 6:52:45 GMT -7
Remedy + ZBest + 25 watt greens = all the cool "Plexi" tones you can conjure, from what's left of your memory.
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Post by bigben55 on Feb 27, 2021 9:31:21 GMT -7
I'm picking up a used pair of 8 ohm 25 watt UK built Celestion Greenbacks tomorrow. Question, since I'll need to rewire the cab anyway. Should I do parallel or series? Run em at 4 ohms or 16 ohms? And why?
If I dont love the Greenbacks, plan B is to put the ET65 back in and buy a WGS Invader, to see how I like that combo.
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Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Feb 27, 2021 10:02:47 GMT -7
16... if for no other reason, get all of your xformer a workout. ET65 is a Great 65 watt greenback. I have a 1x12 closed back I use for the Remedy on the rare occasion it leaves home. It's Thiel ported like the ZBest... does a decent imitation of it too. Extremely close. I don't change any amp/pedal settings.
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Post by bigben55 on Feb 27, 2021 10:41:00 GMT -7
Judging by past experience with Greenbacks(which is totally different....1x12 Fenderish combos with open back cabs, versus this Marshall ish Remedy w/2x12 closed back cab) if I dont like them, itll probably be due to them "mushing out" and distorting to early. That may not happen at all with this amp. If it does, the higher watt ET65 + Invader should prevent it.
I'll report back after I have some loud time.....
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Feb 27, 2021 15:58:22 GMT -7
Run em at 4 ohms or 16 ohms? And why? It’s probably a bit in the realm of “cork sniffing” but as between the two I think many folks say 16ohm for the reason T’Rock said — get all of the transformer working. I’ve run Z amps at all ohms and I cannot discern a difference for my playing and volume.
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Post by bubs42 on Feb 28, 2021 8:50:24 GMT -7
I'm picking up a used pair of 8 ohm 25 watt UK built Celestion Greenbacks tomorrow. Question, since I'll need to rewire the cab anyway. Should I do parallel or series? Run em at 4 ohms or 16 ohms? And why? If I dont love the Greenbacks, plan B is to put the ET65 back in and buy a WGS Invader, to see how I like that combo. Good news is you can try both ways and tell us what you think. Personally I like running most of my speakers if its my choice at 8ohms, but I do like running multiple cabs at 4ohms. I like the touch of attenuation, and to my ears and hands it feels right. The invader and the ET65 would be good combination, WGS Recommends the Veteran 30 and that would be an interesting and balanced combination.
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Post by bigben55 on Feb 28, 2021 13:17:52 GMT -7
All speakers will be 8 ohms, so its either 4 or 16 ohms. I can do it either way but doubt ill "test the difference." The consensus it, it dont matter much, so I'll probably just wire it 16ohms. I'm picking up a used pair of 8 ohm 25 watt UK built Celestion Greenbacks tomorrow. Question, since I'll need to rewire the cab anyway. Should I do parallel or series? Run em at 4 ohms or 16 ohms? And why? If I dont love the Greenbacks, plan B is to put the ET65 back in and buy a WGS Invader, to see how I like that combo. Good news is you can try both ways and tell us what you think. Personally I like running most of my speakers if its my choice at 8ohms, but I do like running multiple cabs at 4ohms. I like the touch of attenuation, and to my ears and hands it feels right. The invader and the ET65 would be good combination, WGS Recommends the Veteran 30 and that would be an interesting and balanced combination.
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Post by Faze on Feb 28, 2021 15:59:07 GMT -7
Remedy + ZBest + 25 watt greens = all the cool "Plexi" tones you can conjure, from what's left of your memory. When I had a les paul and my remedy and Z-best with the two greenbacks this is exactly that tone no doubt about it.
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Post by bigben55 on Mar 1, 2021 12:12:31 GMT -7
Got the pair of UK Greenbacks loaded and wired up in series at 16 ohms, had some loud time. Much better in this 2x12 closed back cab than in an open back 1x12 combo. I like them in here, hated a single Greenback in the Z28 combo I had. Now, I only played the cab at Remedy half power, but they don't mush out and cave in on themselves here, and I had it running pretty cranked(high loudness at 1 o'clock, normal loudness at 2 o clock). Less treble, a bit less bass and a little more mids, but more crunch. Less overall volume, but still plenty loud. I think I'll keep them for a while.
When I go to play at 40 watts/full power, am I in any danger of blowing them? Even cranked and boosted with a pedal? Has anyone with a Remedy "blown up" Greenbacks?
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