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Post by Russell B on Jan 28, 2021 9:52:08 GMT -7
This may prove to be a silly question. I've not used the loop on my Cure (or other amps) much until I got the CAZ. As you can imagine, there is a big difference between the two loops. So, would a buffer help? Cable from Send to a buffer and then to my delays and such then back to Return?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jan 28, 2021 10:41:28 GMT -7
I think I'd put it after the delays etc, just before the cable to the Return. Your effects are high impedance (at the input, since it's designed to receive the guitar signal from the instrument) so it takes very little to drive them. You need the extra muscle just after the delays to drive the return cable and the amp return itself.
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Post by Russell B on Jan 28, 2021 11:54:09 GMT -7
I think I'd put it after the delays etc, just before the cable to the Return. Your effects are high impedance (at the input, since it's designed to receive the guitar signal from the instrument) so it takes very little to drive them. You need the extra muscle just after the delays to drive the return cable and the amp return itself. What it I just use a delay with short cables that's always on?
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jan 28, 2021 14:45:50 GMT -7
It depends on the way the delay is designed. If it's got low output impedance you'll be ok, I'd just plug it in and try it. I did the same thing, I've never used loops much until the CAZ. It's been living with a little TC delay and 1' cables since I bought it! Almost all Boss pedals have buffers built in. You could try using one and see if there's a difference with or without. Do you have an RC Booster or other such clean boost pedal? That'll work for a buffer to experiment with. But realize that depending on the design intent of the buffer, it can introduce EQ into the signal. In a perfect world the buffer would have a flat frequency response and not introduce any cut or boost at any frequency. But the cheap little one transistor or some IC buffers may not have that quality.
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Post by Russell B on Jan 28, 2021 15:14:59 GMT -7
It depends on the way the delay is designed. If it's got low output impedance you'll be ok, I'd just plug it in and try it. I did the same thing, I've never used loops much until the CAZ. It's been living with a little TC delay and 1' cables since I bought it! Almost all Boss pedals have buffers built in. You could try using one and see if there's a difference with or without. Do you have an RC Booster or other such clean boost pedal? That'll work for a buffer to experiment with. But realize that depending on the design intent of the buffer, it can introduce EQ into the signal. In a perfect world the buffer would have a flat frequency response and not introduce any cut or boost at any frequency. But the cheap little one transistor or some IC buffers may not have that quality. I have a Flying Dragon. I may give that a try, but the single delay (always on for just a little ambiance) is sounding pretty good. Much better than running long cables to the pedal board. Thanks Dave!
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Post by adam on Jan 28, 2021 17:15:30 GMT -7
Sometimes I think there's so much misinformation out there it guides us in ways that are counterproductive. Just try whatever you are trying and a/b and see what you think sounds better. We've all put a couple boss pedals or whatever on the floor and said "my regular guitar sound is better straight into the amp". The fast forward to buffers are bad and true bypass is the way to go, then to you need a buffer to deal with the length of cable loss, then you need a switching system for the pedals, and on and on. I have that Friedman buffer thing and in normal operation in front of the amp with say 2 18' chords, I can't tell the difference when it's on or off. I once tried that the MAZ, like pedal board to maz with a 50' cable and the amp in the next room and the difference with the buffer on or off was night and day. Hendrix didn't worry about buffers and I'm sure didn't know that was even a thing with his coily chords and he came out ok. Santana I think still uses a 50' chord into the amp because he liked the way it sounded. Ty Tabor once had a reference of putting a specific pedal in front of his amp which peeled out just the right amount of high end to make that amp sound "right". Try a different cable altogether, there was a great Suhr comment about him working with Van Halen and something didn't sound right and they just swapped one 20' cable with another and Suhr said he couldn't believe how different it sounded. You get the idea, just try it either way, buffer or no buffer, and just see what you think and move on. I don't think there's a right or wrong to any of this stuff, it just sounds good to you or or it doesn't. And the caz loop, I STILL haven't used it. That amp just kind of doesn't need anything, to me. Just try stuff and trust your gut.
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Post by adam on Jan 28, 2021 17:18:56 GMT -7
Maybe one more thought, just run 2 20' cables in the loop of the amp and insert a true bypass pedal or a boss pedal with a buffer and compare what you hear and feel. Maybe use a 1' jumper cable in the loop and compare that to no cable.
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Post by Russell B on Jan 29, 2021 5:50:27 GMT -7
Adam, this all started when I used the same pedal board that use for my CAZ with the Cure. There was a HUGE difference. 18 feet of cable between the loop and the pedals. I didn't know how well an outside buffer would work. I'm just using a single delay. The delay sitting on top of the amp with short patch cables is much better. I'm going that route.
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Post by adam on Jan 29, 2021 7:35:10 GMT -7
Adam, this all started when I used the same pedal board that use for my CAZ with the Cure. There was a HUGE difference. 18 feet of cable between the loop and the pedals. I didn't know how well an outside buffer would work. I'm just using a single delay. The delay sitting on top of the amp with short patch cables is much better. I'm going that route. I'll try it this weekend.
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Post by adam on Jan 30, 2021 17:10:06 GMT -7
Adam, this all started when I used the same pedal board that use for my CAZ with the Cure. There was a HUGE difference. 18 feet of cable between the loop and the pedals. I didn't know how well an outside buffer would work. I'm just using a single delay. The delay sitting on top of the amp with short patch cables is much better. I'm going that route. I just made a dumb video about testing the loop of the caz and didn't realize you were talking about the Cure. Oh well, the video is cheesy, but I think it shows how the caz loop works anyway.
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Post by Russell B on Jan 30, 2021 19:01:37 GMT -7
Adam, this all started when I used the same pedal board that use for my CAZ with the Cure. There was a HUGE difference. 18 feet of cable between the loop and the pedals. I didn't know how well an outside buffer would work. I'm just using a single delay. The delay sitting on top of the amp with short patch cables is much better. I'm going that route. I just made a dumb video about testing the loop of the caz and didn't realize you were talking about the Cure. Oh well, the video is cheesy, but I think it shows how the caz loop works anyway. That would be a double buffer! The CAZ has a tube driven buffer. I do appreciate you doing this.
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Post by helmi on Jan 30, 2021 20:43:14 GMT -7
Adam, this all started when I used the same pedal board that use for my CAZ with the Cure. There was a HUGE difference. 18 feet of cable between the loop and the pedals. I didn't know how well an outside buffer would work. I'm just using a single delay. The delay sitting on top of the amp with short patch cables is much better. I'm going that route. I just made a dumb video about testing the loop of the caz and didn't realize you were talking about the Cure. Oh well, the video is cheesy, but I think it shows how the caz loop works anyway. That’s VERY cool of you to do that Adam. bravo to you!
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