|
Post by mackaygtrs on Sept 21, 2020 17:25:45 GMT -7
I am adding this EDIT: The below is NOT a complaint about the Jr but merely my hunt for advise and looking for other opinions and thoughts. So far the comments have been great and by the way, I love this amp. Just not sure I'm using it right...lol So what guitars are you all using with your Z-Wrecks? I'm in the Wreck about 2 weeks now and have experimented with my Strats, Les Pauls and a few Gretsch hollow bodies. The Pauls are amazing with the Z-wreck but the Strats seem to have an added fizzy fuzz distorted sound on top of the glassy breakup when playing leads after 2 o'clock on the volume. I have done a total pickup adjustment from high to low, speaker swap from Greenback to Celestion Blue to Celestion Gold and I still get it. If I roll back the guitar volume a bit I can get rid of it but that obviously removes a bit of the glassy tone. Anyone experience this? It still by all means sounds amazing but curious about what other Strat players are doing volume wise. I had a great conversation with Dr Z about it and discussed a few things like tubes, pickups, pickup height, speakers and what not. The plan was to record it and send it to him but It really doesn't do the sound once played back. It's one of those things you just have to just hear in person. This could very well just be the characteristics of this amp with a single coil Strat pickup configuration and I'm not used to it, I have never owned this style of amp circuit and mostly played Fender circuits. The Srtars are a combination of Custom Shops, American Standards and a Deluxe. My '56 Gold Top with the P-90 singles does not produce this fizzy fuzz sound, just the singles on the Strats. The Gretsch sound fine too. Thanks, Stuart
|
|
|
Post by KeithA on Sept 22, 2020 2:55:10 GMT -7
I don’t have a Jr yet to try so I can’t say I have any experience. It may be a combination of all of the things you mention, including the circuit’s difference from a Fender-style circuit.
Is it the gain volume that’s at 2:00 or the master volume, or both? If the master volume is still running low (while the gain is at 2:00), what happens once you increase the master volume to, say, 10:00, 11:00, 12:00 and beyond?
|
|
|
Post by Russell B on Sept 22, 2020 3:47:15 GMT -7
I've been using Les Pauls (one with P90s) and Heritage H-535s. The LPs for more rock tones and the 535's for Blues tones. I've always thought that single coils guitars like strats and teles like for amps to not be as overdriven. They break up differently than humbuckers do. So, I find myself turning up for more overdrive with Les Pauls, but way less with strats and teles. That's me though. Everyone needs to find their on way in this.
|
|
|
Post by mackaygtrs on Sept 22, 2020 4:45:54 GMT -7
I don’t have a Jr yet to try so I can’t say I have any experience. It may be a combination of all of the things you mention, including the circuit’s difference from a Fender-style circuit. Is it the gain volume that’s at 2:00 or the master volume, or both? If the master volume is still running low (while the gain is at 2:00), what happens once you increase the master volume to, say, 10:00, 11:00, 12:00 and beyond? I've had the master around 10 and with the guitar volume rolled back it's really nice but I'm getting old and the ears are not what they used to be, that's why I never bought the Big Wreck. lol. I do believe it's the characteristic of this circuit and the singles in the Strat just don't like to get too over driven. I always start out at 12 on the volume and love the break up but as you probably know knobs tend to always creep up and next thing you know it's at 1 o'clock, 2, 3 etc... I usually keep the master at 8 or 9 o'clock. I think that could be part of my problem. I'm thinking I may need to invest in a Break Lite just so I can get the master turned up and to tubes working a bit more. I use the SWART Night Light with my SWART amps and always have the volume cranked at 8ish with no MV. The tone on this is definitely different in an amazing way and I love it, right now it's the only amp that I can actually use my Strats, Les Pauls and Gretsch guitars with and they all sound amazing with the right tweaking. This post was by no means to bash the amp as I'm sure you know but just looking for opinions and what others are using to dial it in.
|
|
|
Post by mackaygtrs on Sept 22, 2020 5:02:31 GMT -7
I've been using Les Pauls (one with P90s) and Heritage H-535s. The LPs for more rock tones and the 535's for Blues tones. I've always thought that single coils guitars like strats and teles like for amps to not be as overdriven. They break up differently than humbuckers do. So, I find myself turning up for more overdrive with Les Pauls, but way less with strats and teles. That's me though. Everyone needs to find their on way in this. Thanks for the input and yes with the Pauls I can overdrive the amp using the volume as much as I want and it stays pretty smooth and never gets that muddy distorted breakup most other amps get when pushed. I do notice on a lot of the demos that the players do tend to roll off on the volume with Strats and Teles when they break into a lead or higher finger picking and roll it back up for chords and rhythm chops. And you're right, its all about finding the right sound but unfortunately when I think I've found it I go right back to tweaking again...lol. Thanks again for the input, turning up the overdrive with Les Pauls and backing it down a bit with strats and teles is the key here. This post was not to criticize the amp but to get a little feed back as I enter this new amp circuit chapter in life.
|
|
|
Post by redtele on Sept 22, 2020 5:41:23 GMT -7
Hi mackaygtrs I think you've probably worked out what is causing the issue you are describing, but for sharing the learning, this is what I've noticed.
The ratio between where the gain and master is set makes a huge difference, well not night and day, but it's more than a gain thing but it almost acts like a shift in the EQ, probably due to the pre and power amp sections both contributing their own sonic characteristics to the overall sound.
Turning the master to equal or higher settings than the gain really changes things, and I can get Les Paul type overdrive sounds for my riffs even using a tele with vintage voiced/output pickups. This is probably because the power amp/tubes are now responsible for more of the distortion than the preamp, and 2 EL84s distorting will add their own character sound.
Having the master lower than the gain tames the amp and keeps it more on the Vox side of the road as opposed to the roaring Marshall it is capable of. When the master is much lower than the gain and especially below 9 o'clock then I notice some fizz in the high end, as the amp is producing all of its gain from the preamp section and the output is just barely ticking over to produce the low volume and not adding sonically to the overall sound.
Humbuckers hit the amp harder due to their higher output and have a different EQ to push the amp into overdriving sooner, so the ratio between the pre and power amp is probably less overall despite being set in a similar position to single coils, which is more controllable where the distortion is being produced.
An attenuator will allow you to nudge the master volume up to lessen the disparity between where it compares to the gain, but after trying my Brakelite in the Zwreck junior I actually preferred the master volume by itself, so it may 'solve' the fizzy artifacts but apart from that, isn't really required for this amp for dialling in the gain due to the superb master volume.
Keep us posted with your findings, as I'm sure others also find the discovery of unlocking world class tones are as interested as me in reading and learning more.
|
|
|
Post by mackaygtrs on Sept 22, 2020 6:15:26 GMT -7
The ratio between where the gain and master is set makes a huge difference, well not night and day, but it's more than a gain thing but it almost acts like a shift in the EQ, probably due to the pre and power amp sections both contributing their own sonic characteristics to the overall sound. Turning the master to equal or higher settings than the gain really changes things, and I can get Les Paul type overdrive sounds for my riffs even using a tele with vintage voiced/output pickups. This is probably because the power amp/tubes are now responsible for more of the distortion than the preamp, and 2 EL84s distorting will add their own character sound. I think you nailed it in these paragraphs. Since I'm being wimpy here by keeping the master "volume" down low I believe I'm getting all my breakup (more like distortion than breakup) from just the preamp side of things which is what's causing this distorted fizzy sound. At this point the power tubes are not contributing to get whats needed to produce the amps capable breakup. I need to get it opened up and quite being wimpy here. lol. By getting the Master turned up I will probably cut back on the volume a bit to equal the two and basically get it dialed in. As Mr. Paisley's Tech mentioned in an interview, that's why we have more than one of each, so they can all have their own individual settings...lol This site is definitely helpful and these comments are making a lot of sense.
|
|
|
Post by helmi on Sept 22, 2020 14:08:13 GMT -7
This problem could just be with the RED jr’s!
|
|
|
Post by mackaygtrs on Sept 22, 2020 14:22:20 GMT -7
This problem could just be with the RED jr’s! LMFAO
|
|
|
Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Sept 22, 2020 16:22:33 GMT -7
I thought this thread was going to be about post-gig band drama 😳
|
|
|
Post by zm12 on Sept 23, 2020 19:50:32 GMT -7
I use a les Paul jr with a single p90 obviously. With the vol turned up, keeping the master low late at night I find that I have to lower the bass and turn up the cut. I’ve yet to run into any amount of fizz that I really noticed. Also i use a mustang special with coil tap. Again no fizz on either pickup setting. Comparing it to a jcm 800 I had a while back. If you are looking for fizz, that had it in spades!
|
|
|
Post by mackaygtrs on Sept 24, 2020 4:09:21 GMT -7
I use a les Paul jr with a single p90 obviously. With the vol turned up, keeping the master low late at night I find that I have to lower the bass and turn up the cut. I’ve yet to run into any amount of fizz that I really noticed. Also i use a mustang special with coil tap. Again no fizz on either pickup setting. Comparing it to a jcm 800 I had a while back. If you are looking for fizz, that had it in spades! Thanks, yeah I don't get the fizzy fuz sound with the P-90's on my R6. I have managed to get around it though now with the Strats. I was initially setting the Cut and Treble at 3-4 o'clock and Bass at noon+, I think this was my problem. I have since turned back on the Cut to 9-11 o'clock, Treble to noon and Bass way back at 8-9 o'clock and it's getting what I'm looking for Strat wise, this was thanks to another Z-Members advice. I even notice now that If I crank the MV way up to about 2-3 o'clock and run the Volume low at say 8-9 o'clock I get this amazing glassy chime with the Strats. I hooked up my SWART night with the last configuration with the MV turned up, I think this gets the EL's cooking and with just the right amount of 1st stage pre amp volume from the 12ax7's, seems like it's a good combination. So many possibilities with this amp it's crazy, newer a dull session for sure. Thanks for the input.
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 24, 2020 5:02:19 GMT -7
Most of the time when I switch back and forth between buckers and single coils....I turn the treble and/or cut knob down when it's the single coils. The buckers need a little extra boost of high end. And el84 are known for a little extra 'krang' when pushed which could make the problem worse.
|
|
|
Post by mackaygtrs on Sept 24, 2020 5:27:52 GMT -7
Most of the time when I switch back and forth between buckers and single coils....I turn the treble and/or cut knob down when it's the single coils. The buckers need a little extra boost of high end. And el84 are known for a little extra 'krang' when pushed which could make the problem worse. Thanks, I'm a bit new to running a Strat with this type of amp and circuit so lots to learn and lots of tweaking with trial and error. I have had my MAZ38 for a while but always used my Les Pauls or Humbucker equipped guitars with it. I feel a bit stupid/novice now that I posted this but I have received lots of great advice, no disrespect at all from anyone and no disrespect for this amp, its a great piece of work.
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 24, 2020 7:38:21 GMT -7
One more piece of advice....that I wish I had known YEARS ago:
Take your strat to a guitar shop (Luthier/tech) Have them rewire the tone controls so that the bottom tone control...the one for the middle pickup...also controls the tone for the bridge pickup. If you use the bridge pickup, and you think things are too fizzy...sometimes just a slight twist of the tone control on the guitar can fix that. But since the strat comes standard with no tone control for the bridge pickup, you have to take it somewhere to get that mod. I would NEVER have a strat that doesn't have that simple mod. As I understand it, it takes more time to remove the strings, unscrew the pickguard...than it does to make the mod. Very simple mod.
|
|
|
Post by "Z" Steve on Sept 24, 2020 7:45:36 GMT -7
One more piece of advice....that I wish I had known YEARS ago: Take your strat to a guitar shop (Luthier/tech) Have them rewire the tone controls so that the bottom tone control...the one for the middle pickup...also controls the tone for the bridge pickup. If you use the bridge pickup, and you think things are too fizzy...sometimes just a slight twist of the tone control on the guitar can fix that. But since the strat comes standard with no tone control for the bridge pickup, you have to take it somewhere to get that mod. I would NEVER have a strat that doesn't have that simple mod. As I understand it, it takes more time to remove the strings, unscrew the pickguard...than it does to make the mod. Very simple mod. THIS!!
|
|
|
Post by mackaygtrs on Sept 24, 2020 10:21:24 GMT -7
One more piece of advice....that I wish I had known YEARS ago: Take your strat to a guitar shop (Luthier/tech) Have them rewire the tone controls so that the bottom tone control...the one for the middle pickup...also controls the tone for the bridge pickup. If you use the bridge pickup, and you think things are too fizzy...sometimes just a slight twist of the tone control on the guitar can fix that. But since the strat comes standard with no tone control for the bridge pickup, you have to take it somewhere to get that mod. I would NEVER have a strat that doesn't have that simple mod. As I understand it, it takes more time to remove the strings, unscrew the pickguard...than it does to make the mod. Very simple mod. Huh, I actually never even thought about this and it's such a great Idea. The bridge definitely needs a little toning down. Thanks for the tip.
|
|
|
Post by Don A on Feb 11, 2021 8:51:21 GMT -7
One more piece of advice....that I wish I had known YEARS ago: Take your strat to a guitar shop (Luthier/tech) Have them rewire the tone controls so that the bottom tone control...the one for the middle pickup...also controls the tone for the bridge pickup. If you use the bridge pickup, and you think things are too fizzy...sometimes just a slight twist of the tone control on the guitar can fix that. But since the strat comes standard with no tone control for the bridge pickup, you have to take it somewhere to get that mod. I would NEVER have a strat that doesn't have that simple mod. As I understand it, it takes more time to remove the strings, unscrew the pickguard...than it does to make the mod. Very simple mod. I’m a little late in mentioning this, but I do this a little differently- I move the wire from the middle tone control to the bridge pickup and leave the middle pickup with no tone control. This takes the edge off of the bridge pickup (even when the tone control is set to 10) and makes the middle pickup ballsier and more usable. It also seems to improve the 2 & 4 switch positions.
|
|
|
Post by redtele on Mar 13, 2021 12:26:48 GMT -7
I use a les Paul jr with a single p90 obviously. With the vol turned up, keeping the master low late at night I find that I have to lower the bass and turn up the cut. I’ve yet to run into any amount of fizz that I really noticed. Also i use a mustang special with coil tap. Again no fizz on either pickup setting. Comparing it to a jcm 800 I had a while back. If you are looking for fizz, that had it in spades! Brining this thread back to add another minor observation regarding taming the 'fizz' if it's still an issue for you: It seems to help backing off the bass ever-so-slightly when playing at very low volume levels, as bass frequencies are quite 'power hungry' to amplify, therefore reducing the bass content possibly decreases the ratio between how hard the pre and power tubes are working relative to each other and helps to reduce any fizzyness creeping in. Of course I may be WAY off base here and talking out of my backside regarding why this happens, but it does make a noticeable difference in my experience, although you do then increase the mids and then possibly end up with too much honk, so choose your poison!
|
|