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Post by swampcooler on Aug 22, 2020 8:55:54 GMT -7
Howdy,
My Cure came with a 5AR4 rectifier, which is confirmed in the 2017 Guitar Player Editor's Pick review, posted on the Cure info page. However, the specs listed on the Cure page say 5U4, and so does the tube support info.
Which is correct? They are very different. Was there a circuit change at some point which required a rectifier change? If so, what serial number marks the change?
Thanks for the help, Swampcooler
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Post by swampcooler on Aug 22, 2020 9:25:04 GMT -7
Just a follow-up,
The driver tube specs have changed as well - the 2017 spec is for a 12AT7 with the 5AR4
The current spec is a 12AX7 driver and a 5U4 rectifier.
These are really different sounds. Did the amp change, or did someone just fuss with the tubes a bit?
Thanks again, Swampcooler
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Post by "Z" Steve on Aug 22, 2020 11:44:03 GMT -7
The Doc has made small changes to his amps over the years due to requests from some of the gigging musicians that use the amp, along with the availability of certain current production tubes that amp is based on. He might pipe in here to clarify his decision re changes. Either way, the Cure is a great amp!
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Aug 23, 2020 2:34:48 GMT -7
I'd like to hear Doc's thoughts about this too. I've got to try the 5U4 / 12AX7 combination, I bet it has more bloom to the pick attack.
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Post by swampcooler on Aug 23, 2020 6:12:00 GMT -7
The 5U4/12ax7 is pretty squishy to be sure, and noticeably softer volume. I think it would be a fine recording tone. The 5AR4/12at7 brings the amp to it's full punching weight. I'd like that for a band or live setting.
I found the 12ax7 to be too hot, pushes the power tubes in a slightly messy overdriven way, whereas the 12at7 had absolute control, firmness, and dynamics with the power tubes. So, this is why I'm asking if there were circuit changes to the Cure to go with the different tube spec. These are very different set-ups.
Swampcooler
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Post by LT on Aug 23, 2020 8:41:12 GMT -7
I bought my Cure in the first year of production and it has the 12ax7 12AT7/5ar4 combo. I've been running a NOS 5ar4 for several years now with no issues.
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Post by swampcooler on Aug 23, 2020 9:17:54 GMT -7
Interesting there are/were so many variables for this amp. The concern I have is the extra load the 5U4 can put on the power tranny. If my 2018 amp is okay with a 5U4, then I have a bunch of tube choices to fine-tune my amp performance and sound. Just don't want to fry a good amp.
Doc?
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Aug 23, 2020 12:19:34 GMT -7
No sweat with the transformer, Doc builds all his amps to support every rectifier. He over specs the trans for just this type of change because he knows how guitar players love to swap tubes!
I just changed the original configuration to the 5U4/12AX7 combo and I have to say I love it. It takes the amp from a cleaner blackface like sound to a higher gain tone that I really dig. It really makes a difference, try it. I didn't crank the Level control above 12:00 but it was getting plenty loud then. I don't think it's going to have a hard time keeping up with a band in a smaller club. About circuit changes, I'm unaware of any.
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Post by Don A on Aug 23, 2020 16:39:15 GMT -7
The February 4, 2020 capture on the Wayback Machine still showed a 12AT7 and 5AR4. The manual that shows 3x12AX7 with a 5U4 is dated August 13, 2020. It looks like the change was recent.
My Cure, built in February 2019 has a 12AT7 and 5AR4.
I'd also be interested in knowing if the circuit changed or just the tube selection.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Aug 23, 2020 17:42:10 GMT -7
I'm not aware of any changes either but it doesn't mean there weren't any. Doc or Frankie may chime in.
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Post by LT on Aug 23, 2020 18:04:14 GMT -7
I have to correct my earlier post. My Cure has a 12AT7 (not AX) and 5AR4 combination. Sorry for the confusion. I like the original BF style tone as I need a fairly cleanish sound on a few tunes.
I have NOS tubes in all positions and it sounds great.
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Post by repairz on Aug 24, 2020 11:20:08 GMT -7
HI THE UPDATE TO THE CURE WAS DONE DECEMBER 2019, YES, THERE WERE INTERNAL COMPONENT CHANGES IN ADDITION TO THE PHASE INVERTER AND RECTIFIER. NO, THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM USING A 5U4 WITH Z TRANSFORMERS THANKS DON DEPEW DRZ REPAIRS
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Aug 24, 2020 11:55:51 GMT -7
HI THE UPDATE TO THE CURE WAS DONE DECEMBER 2019, YES, THERE WERE INTERNAL COMPONENT CHANGES IN ADDITION TO THE PHASE INVERTER AND RECTIFIER. NO, THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM USING A 5U4 WITH Z TRANSFORMERS THANKS DON DEPEW DRZ REPAIRS Thanks for the information Don!!
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Post by lowbudget on Aug 24, 2020 13:34:25 GMT -7
HI THE UPDATE TO THE CURE WAS DONE DECEMBER 2019, YES, THERE WERE INTERNAL COMPONENT CHANGES IN ADDITION TO THE PHASE INVERTER AND RECTIFIER. NO, THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM USING A 5U4 WITH Z TRANSFORMERS THANKS DON DEPEW DRZ REPAIRS So, if we have an older (2017) Cure that has a factory 5AR4, do we need to change it out to a 5U4 or is it just not a big deal?
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Post by frankie on Aug 25, 2020 13:29:27 GMT -7
HI THE UPDATE TO THE CURE WAS DONE DECEMBER 2019, YES, THERE WERE INTERNAL COMPONENT CHANGES IN ADDITION TO THE PHASE INVERTER AND RECTIFIER. NO, THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM USING A 5U4 WITH Z TRANSFORMERS THANKS DON DEPEW DRZ REPAIRS So, if we have an older (2017) Cure that has a factory 5AR4, do we need to change it out to a 5U4 or is it just not a big deal? There were more changes made beyond the rectifier swap, so don't conflate that change that being the full revision. But you can. If you like the sound of the 5U4, all the better. If you like the 5AR4, just as well.
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Post by Russell B on Aug 25, 2020 14:18:46 GMT -7
So, a 12AT7 to a 12AX7LPS! I has to sound different (better?). Should old models need to be upgraded? I've not had any issues in my 2017 Cure, but if it can sound better....
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Aug 25, 2020 15:55:07 GMT -7
So, a 12AT7 to a 12AX7LPS! I has to sound different (better?). Should old models need to be upgraded? I've not had any issues in my 2017 Cure, but if it can sound better.... You have to try it, Russell. It really gains up the Cure. Mine came stock with the 12AT7 and 5AR4. Now I'm curious what other changes were done, but I really dig it like it is with just the tube swap.
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Post by Russell B on Aug 25, 2020 17:36:00 GMT -7
So, a 12AT7 to a 12AX7LPS! I has to sound different (better?). Should old models need to be upgraded? I've not had any issues in my 2017 Cure, but if it can sound better.... You have to try it, Russell. It really gains up the Cure. Mine came stock with the 12AT7 and 5AR4. Now I'm curious what other changes were done, but I really dig it like it is with just the tube swap. Dave, my thoughts are more around the component changes. Did they lead to the tube changes, or did the tube changes lead to the component changes? Does it sound better with the component changes? Hopefully, Doc will see this and chime in.
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Post by LT on Aug 25, 2020 17:49:26 GMT -7
I'm leaving my early-model Cure just as Doc sent it to me. I'm not big on tube type substitutions. But YMMV....
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wgsig
New Member
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Post by wgsig on Aug 25, 2020 18:06:34 GMT -7
Why was the update a semi-secret? Kinda annoying as a Cure owner if it is more than a simple tube change without explanation.
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Post by Russell B on Aug 25, 2020 18:14:45 GMT -7
Why was the update a semi-secret? Kinda annoying as a Cure owner if it is more than a simple tube change without explanation. Doc is always thinking of ways to improve his products. I wouldn’t read anything into the changes other than that.
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Post by Russell B on Aug 25, 2020 18:16:56 GMT -7
I'm leaving my early-model Cure just as Doc sent it to me. I'm not big on tube type substitutions. But YMMV.... Me too! But, I wouldn’t rule out a new one down the road!
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wgsig
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Post by wgsig on Aug 25, 2020 18:24:57 GMT -7
I didn’t mean disrespect in my question, but I’m not wealthy enough to play the new amp of the year game. I’d like to own an amp for a while before feeling like its obsolete.
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Post by LT on Aug 25, 2020 18:29:28 GMT -7
I'm leaving my early-model Cure just as Doc sent it to me. I'm not big on tube type substitutions. But YMMV.... Me too! But, I wouldn’t rule out a new one down the road! I hear ya Russell....the Cure is such a great amp. It's been my #1 gig amp since I bought it. I did load mine up with NOS tubes from KCA (no changes to the original specs though) and put an Eminence Lil Texas Neo speaker in it. Sorry...I'm taking the thread off the original topic!
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Post by LT on Aug 25, 2020 18:44:22 GMT -7
I didn’t mean disrespect in my question, but I’m not wealthy enough to play the new amp of the year game. I’d like to own an amp for a while before feeling like its obsolete. First off....welcome to the forum. Lots of great folks here with a LOT of knowledge/experience. I have a year 1 Cure with the original spec tubes and by no means feel I have an obsolete amp. It still sounds killer and it's been my main gigging amp since I bought it. As long as you can still turn the knobs and get the tones you're lookin for, it's all good. Often times the very early amps become the most desirable (Plexi comes to mind...as does the very early Carmen Ghia's)
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wgsig
New Member
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Post by wgsig on Aug 26, 2020 5:12:08 GMT -7
I didn’t mean disrespect in my question, but I’m not wealthy enough to play the new amp of the year game. I’d like to own an amp for a while before feeling like its obsolete. First off....welcome to the forum. Lots of great folks here with a LOT of knowledge/experience. I have a year 1 Cure with the original spec tubes and by no means feel I have an obsolete amp. It still sounds killer and it's been my main gigging amp since I bought it. As long as you can still turn the knobs and get the tones you're lookin for, it's all good. Often times the very early amps become the most desirable (Plexi comes to mind...as does the very early Carmen Ghia's) Thanks, and I’m certainly happy with my OG version Cure. Sorry, back in topic... Ive tried it with a 12AX7LPS and it really makes a difference. I’m very interested in trying the alternative rectifier.
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Post by lowbudget on Aug 26, 2020 5:37:25 GMT -7
So, where does the 12AX7LPS come in? I’m only seeing Doc’s recommendation for the 12AX7.
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wgsig
New Member
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Post by wgsig on Aug 26, 2020 5:52:15 GMT -7
So, where does the 12AX7LPS come in? I’m only seeing Doc’s recommendation for the 12AX7. It can be any 12AX7, but the Sovtek 12AX7 LPS is popular in the phase inverter position.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Aug 26, 2020 6:04:14 GMT -7
I didn’t mean disrespect in my question, but I’m not wealthy enough to play the new amp of the year game. I’d like to own an amp for a while before feeling like its obsolete. Doc's stuff doesn't become obsolete - it just gets better! I have one of the first Cures made - it's not going anywhere.
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Post by frankie on Aug 26, 2020 11:07:11 GMT -7
I didn’t mean disrespect in my question, but I’m not wealthy enough to play the new amp of the year game. I’d like to own an amp for a while before feeling like its obsolete. Changes to the amplifiers often do not have anything to do with improving them tonally. In many cases, they are changes to make sure they are consistent tonally from year to year, when parts become unavailable or unreliable or difficult to come by, changes need to be made to insure proper operating conditions. So if your amp sounds good to you and is functioning properly, it's actually no better or worse than the latest model based on the parts it was made with at the time it is made. If there was a substantial update to the amp, we would make it available as new revision. Believe it or not, every company makes silent revisions on their product for reliability and consistent operation as the supply chain changes. Which is why simply changing the rectifier or phase inverter in your older Cure to the latest spec, or for that matter, a newer Cure to older spec will not achieve anything other than simply doing that. Your results will vary.
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