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Post by Patrick B on Jun 29, 2020 10:11:52 GMT -7
I recently purchased two vintage JBL D110F 10" speakers. I love the 15" JBL D130F so much I had to try these 10" speakers. See the pic to see that they don't have any gasket material and I assume this is the way they were mounted previously. Seller said they came from a Vox amp. Is it OK to mount these in a cabinet this way without any gasket material between the speaker and the Dr. 2x10 cabinet that I will be using? If it turns out to be a long term installation would the possible movement/swelling of the wood put stress on the speaker frames? That's the only thing I can think of. But most speakers I have seen and used have something between the speaker and wood cabinet so it must be for a reason, right?
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Jun 29, 2020 10:22:47 GMT -7
I would advise against mounting these without gaskets.
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Post by Patrick B on Jun 29, 2020 10:54:13 GMT -7
I would advise against mounting these without gaskets. I have some gaskets ordered so I will wait before mounting. But however I'm really interested in learning why and what can happen if anybody has knowledge or experience. Is it a sound issue or a danger to the speakers? Does it simply keep the speakers from becoming loose in the future? Thanks.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jun 29, 2020 16:18:58 GMT -7
I would advise against mounting these without gaskets. I have some gaskets ordered so I will wait before mounting. But however I'm really interested in learning why and what can happen if anybody has knowledge or experience. Is it a sound issue or a danger to the speakers? Does it simply keep the speakers from becoming loose in the future? Thanks. Me too. I would think that if you haven’t got any gaps between the speakers and the baffle (no spaces around the speaker holes) and the cones won’t contact the baffle at full excursion you should be fine.
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Post by GuitarZ on Jun 29, 2020 16:47:45 GMT -7
I was going to opine based on what I think. But, I did a quick internet search. It really seemed inconclusive. And, given that guitar speaker cabinets aren't air-tight enclosures, my gut says you're probably good to go either way. I'm sitting next to a front mounted 1x12 cabinet that I built, and, sure enough, I did not use a rear speaker cabinet. I found this on Sweetwater: The gasket, or speaker gasket is an optional rubber ring or other sealant material designed to provide a smooth, flat mounting surface to seal the speaker to the speaker enclosure. Most speakers include a front gasket. www.sweetwater.com/insync/speaker-gasket/
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Post by mrcapers on Jun 29, 2020 16:58:29 GMT -7
Don't worry about movement/swelling of the frame. Those are cast frames, not formed. I used one of these speakers for years in a Princeton Reverb without a gasket. No issues at all.
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Post by Seńor Verde on Jun 29, 2020 18:39:52 GMT -7
There are others here that know more about this than I do, but I'm guessing if the baffle is completely flat and smooth, it will be fine. Me personally, I'd probably try the speaaker and see if I like it/want to keep it. If I were to keep it, I'd add a gasket, just to get a nice seal when it's mounted.
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Post by Patrick B on Jun 30, 2020 5:32:56 GMT -7
Thanks everyone. Good information. Also I should have mentioned that I have no intention of using these in a closed back cabinet. I think that's important because getting a critical seal doesn't seem as important in an open back. Maybe I'm wrong on that. I got some gaskets delivered yesterday, the hard-paper kind and they don't really fit well and are really thick so I ended up making some out of some neoprene rubber material I already had on hand. I haven't mounted yet but I think it will work. It seems to have just enough but not too much cushion/flex.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jun 30, 2020 6:00:19 GMT -7
Those drivers look exceptionally clean, almost new. I’d make sure they are 100% broken in before making a final on them. What amp are they going in?
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Post by Patrick B on Jun 30, 2020 6:15:44 GMT -7
Those drivers look exceptionally clean, almost new. I’d make sure they are 100% broken in before making a final on them. What amp are they going in? Well, I have a couple possible scenarios. I have a 1965 Fender Vibrolux 2x10 combo amp so that's definitely a possibility. These things are heavy so not sure I will like adding weight to the combo so they need to pretty special to justify that extra weight. This Vibrolux is probably my lightest and most portable amp so kinda like keeping it light as possible. Also I have a couple 1964 Fender Bassman heads that like 4 ohm loads so I could put these in my Dr. Z 2x10 cabinet and use these speakers with the Bassmans. I'm putting them into the Dr. Z 2x10 cabinet to try them out and then will consider moving them to the Vibrolux. Yea, these are amazingly clean. Seller said the cones were original too but I'm not so sure.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jun 30, 2020 7:44:13 GMT -7
Sounds like good choices all around. They would be sweet in the vibro but will add heft. Let us know when you get to testing. And happy 4th.
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Post by Patrick B on Jun 30, 2020 7:45:53 GMT -7
Sounds like good choices all around. They would be sweet in the vibro but will add heft. Let us know when you get to testing. And happy 4th. I will. Yes, Happy Independence Day to all!
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Jun 30, 2020 11:59:39 GMT -7
A few reasons for having speaker gaskets.
1) You don't know if your baffle is perfectly flat yet. Mounting the speaker to a warped baffle will tweak the frame, and potentially cause voice coil rub, and other high pitched or goofy noises. Ask me how I know this for a fact...been there done that! Learn from my mistake.
2) The cone excursion may be long enough to hit the baffle board (assuming rear mounted, not front mounted) when playing loud or palm muting notes. Again, guess how I found out? Learn from my mistake.
3) Cast frames are more rigid, and it may not be significant to have a gasket as long as the baffle is perfectly flat. But I've had clients get weird noises without them and after installing the gasket, those noises went away...and back to 1 & 2 above.
4) The gasket seals the speaker to the baffle, so there's no sound leaking out under the gasket. It also provides a cushion in case you over-tighten the bolts. I recommend no more than one full turn after the bolt meets the frame by hand tightening. Here's how I do it.
When mounting your speakers, use caution. Vintage style frames (thinner) require that you mount the speakers using an X pattern method.
A) Tighten all bolts/screws finger tight till the bolt meets back of the speaker frame.
B) Hand tighten in a cross frame or X pattern like a head gasket on a car engine. DO NOT TIGHTEN in a clock-wise circular fashion as you can warp the frame.
C) Tighten 1/4 turn on each bolt in an X pattern in one pass, then the other 1/4 to 1/2 successive turns in successive passes. This will compress the gasket enough to ensure a proper seal, and without warping the frame. I recommend no more than 1 full turn after the bolt meets the back of the frame, usually 2/3 to 3/4 is good.
Failure to do this could result in a damaged cone, bent frame, or unusually high shrill, or muddy bass noises from over-tightening. DO NOT USE AN ELECTRIC DRILL SET TO A TORQUE SETTING!
I hope that explains it well enough.
Jim
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Post by helmi on Jun 30, 2020 14:21:48 GMT -7
A few reasons for having speaker gaskets.
1) You don't know if your baffle is perfectly flat yet. Mounting the speaker to a warped baffle will tweak the frame, and potentially cause voice coil rub, and other high pitched or goofy noises. Ask me how I know this for a fact...been there done that! Learn from my mistake.
2) The cone excursion may be long enough to hit the baffle board (assuming rear mounted, not front mounted) when playing loud or palm muting notes. Again, guess how I found out? Learn from my mistake.
3) Cast frames are more rigid, and it may not be significant to have a gasket as long as the baffle is perfectly flat. But I've had clients get weird noises without them and after installing the gasket, those noises went away...and back to 1 & 2 above.
4) The gasket seals the speaker to the baffle, so there's no sound leaking out under the gasket. It also provides a cushion in case you over-tighten the bolts. I recommend no more than one full turn after the bolt meets the frame by hand tightening. Here's how I do it.
When mounting your speakers, use caution. Vintage style frames (thinner) require that you mount the speakers using an X pattern method.
A) Tighten all bolts/screws finger tight till the bolt meets back of the speaker frame.
B) Hand tighten in a cross frame or X pattern like a head gasket on a car engine. DO NOT TIGHTEN in a clock-wise circular fashion as you can warp the frame.
C) Tighten 1/4 turn on each bolt in an X pattern in one pass, then the other 1/4 to 1/2 successive turns in successive passes. This will compress the gasket enough to ensure a proper seal, and without warping the frame. I recommend no more than 1 full turn after the bolt meets the back of the frame, usually 2/3 to 3/4 is good.
Failure to do this could result in a damaged cone, bent frame, or unusually high shrill, or muddy bass noises from over-tightening. DO NOT USE AN ELECTRIC DRILL SET TO A TORQUE SETTING!
I hope that explains it well enough.
Jim
Thank you for taking your time to reply on our forum. your knowledge is a great thing for us here.
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Post by Patrick B on Jun 30, 2020 14:26:03 GMT -7
A few reasons for having speaker gaskets.
1) You don't know if your baffle is perfectly flat yet. Mounting the speaker to a warped baffle will tweak the frame, and potentially cause voice coil rub, and other high pitched or goofy noises. Ask me how I know this for a fact...been there done that! Learn from my mistake.
2) The cone excursion may be long enough to hit the baffle board (assuming rear mounted, not front mounted) when playing loud or palm muting notes. Again, guess how I found out? Learn from my mistake.
3) Cast frames are more rigid, and it may not be significant to have a gasket as long as the baffle is perfectly flat. But I've had clients get weird noises without them and after installing the gasket, those noises went away...and back to 1 & 2 above.
4) The gasket seals the speaker to the baffle, so there's no sound leaking out under the gasket. It also provides a cushion in case you over-tighten the bolts. I recommend no more than one full turn after the bolt meets the frame by hand tightening. Here's how I do it.
When mounting your speakers, use caution. Vintage style frames (thinner) require that you mount the speakers using an X pattern method.
A) Tighten all bolts/screws finger tight till the bolt meets back of the speaker frame.
B) Hand tighten in a cross frame or X pattern like a head gasket on a car engine. DO NOT TIGHTEN in a clock-wise circular fashion as you can warp the frame.
C) Tighten 1/4 turn on each bolt in an X pattern in one pass, then the other 1/4 to 1/2 successive turns in successive passes. This will compress the gasket enough to ensure a proper seal, and without warping the frame. I recommend no more than 1 full turn after the bolt meets the back of the frame, usually 2/3 to 3/4 is good.
Failure to do this could result in a damaged cone, bent frame, or unusually high shrill, or muddy bass noises from over-tightening. DO NOT USE AN ELECTRIC DRILL SET TO A TORQUE SETTING!
I hope that explains it well enough.
Jim
Thanks Jim! I really appreciate your time to explain all that. Great information.
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Post by zpilot on Jul 1, 2020 17:01:18 GMT -7
I have mounted several speakers that way without gaskets and not had a problem. I made sure the cone excursion would not hit the baffle though. I guess I was lucky too. Having said that, everything that Jim from Scumback pointed out is valid. It's just that those problems may not occur every time and he sees a lot more speakers than I have.
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