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Post by bubs42 on Jan 28, 2020 11:24:23 GMT -7
I bought a Ghia and love it. I have a Princeton Silverface that was modded to Blackface specs and I like that amp, but I am thinking of selling it and buying a Z28. Are the Z28 and the Princeton kinda in the same tonal field? I am wondering of the Z28 has more authority than the Princeton? Can anyone help me out a little?
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 28, 2020 12:24:16 GMT -7
Z28 vs Princeton: the Z is WAY louder either clean or dirty, it has way more mids, its capable of much more dirt, sounds bigger, but isnt as bright.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Jan 28, 2020 13:02:37 GMT -7
I'd say WAY more authority than a Princeton would. It doesn't sparkle as much as a Blackface, but it punches like a heavyweight champ.
Think of it like this--whatever the Ghia gives you over most other medium-powered British amps, the Z28 will do that over most medium-powered American ones.
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Post by bubs42 on Jan 28, 2020 13:14:21 GMT -7
Well it sounds like what i'm looking for. I'll have to try to get my hands on a Blonde.
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Post by Ridgeback on Jan 30, 2020 15:15:33 GMT -7
Well it sounds like what i'm looking for. I'll have to try to get my hands on a Blonde. You might have a bit of a wait. It took about two years before I found my blonde Z-28. Possibly even more difficult to find one now that they are discontinued and the Doc has gone all black. Got it from Mark (thanks), who posted earlier in this thread. It was my second time around with the Z-28 and this one is not getting away. Good luck.
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 30, 2020 17:45:05 GMT -7
I just looked at Reverb.com. There are 5 Z28s (2 heads, 3 combos) listed By comparison, there are 45 used Maz18s and 20 used Carmen Ghias. I think it's an amp you should plug into before buying. Why? Because its unique; it's got it's own thing going on, and it's hard to accurately compare it to a more common amp. I've heard some call it a "brownface Fender Deluxe on steroids" but really, that's a Fender that few have actually played. And it doesnt have an EF86. Well it sounds like what i'm looking for. I'll have to try to get my hands on a Blonde. You might have a bit of a wait. It took about two years before I found my blonde Z-28. Possibly even more difficult to find one now that they are discontinued and the Doc has gone all black. Got it from Mark (thanks), who posted earlier in this thread. It was my second time around with the Z-28 and this one is not getting away. Good luck.
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 31, 2020 4:24:38 GMT -7
I've plugged into a brown Deluxe exactly once, years before Dr Z amps even existed. It was old, worn, sounded killer at breakup but way farty dimed with an old (assumingly) low watt alnico speaker.
Fender now makes that Chris Stapleton sig brown Princeton You may find that in GC.
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Post by John on Jan 31, 2020 6:15:02 GMT -7
I've had a Ghia, and I've had a Z-28...and I've played through enough blackfaces to know the tone. Blackfaces are scooped mids and can have sparkling highs. (the sparkling highs can be accented because of the recessed mids) The Z-28 is a very mid heavy amp. The mids are a bit overpowering and dominant. That's neither good or bad. Some may want that, others may not. If you want sparkly Voxy 'chime'...the Z-28 is NOT for you. If you want thick mid bluesy tone....the Z-28 is the amp for you. Also, it's my opinion that the Z-28's mids are 'lower mids'...as opposed to something like a vintage Marshall that has a spike in upper mids. Again, neither good nor bad.
Also, the dynamics of the Z-28 are drastically different than Fender style amps. The ef86 and the eq style are different. The dynamics can be perceived as 'unusual' at first (because they're so accustomed to Fender style amps), but after a while, a person can use those dynamics as a musical tool. Clarification: The Z-28 is wildly dynamic relative to a typical Fender amp. That ef86 of the Z-28 just inhales the guitar output, and it handles pedals differently. After a while, a player will learn to use these great dynamics as an expressive tool.
So I would say the Z-28 and a blackface are about as opposite as amps can get. Having a Ghia and a Z-28 would offer you two very different amps to choose from. (that's a good thing)
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 31, 2020 8:40:05 GMT -7
It's funny just how different two 6V6 1x12 single channel 3 knob combos can sound. My other amp is a Valvetrain Saratoga. It runs a 5Y3 recto, a pair of 6V6s and a pair of 12AX7s. Controls are gain, tone, and master. It's a handwired 16 watts. It has a Scumback H75, my Z28 has a Celestion G12H30, so similar speakers. Both are giggably loud, dynamic amps. But.....
The Z28 has considerably more clean headroom. And better cleans. But the Valvetrain has more/different and IMO better gain. It has the high mids, the Z28 had the low mids. The Valvetrain is like a more stout tweed Deluxe with a Marshallesque preamp. I prefer the Z with single coils, and if I plan on bringing pedals, and the Valvetrain with humbuckers/P90s plugged straight in.
Almost anyone would expect these two, just by looking at them, to sound fairly similar.
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Post by bubs42 on Feb 1, 2020 14:51:47 GMT -7
Thanks again everyone, my plan is either a head or if I can find a 1x10 combo that would be my other choice. I love the 10's but I don't thing I want to carry around the 2x10 combo, or maybe I do? I'm really not going to rule anything out. After all of your input, I would say that I want to get one here and try it, the extra midrange is fine by me.
I love the Ghia, I changed the V1 to an old RCA 12ax7 and the Rectifier to a NOS GE 5v3 and love both of the changes. Now i'm not a NOS Tube guy, I just happen to have that old RCA Tube laying around that I pulled out of another amp. The 5v3 swap was because of Doc's AMA, now I have less sag and it likes my pedals just a little more.
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Post by bigben55 on Feb 1, 2020 16:49:32 GMT -7
I will say, owning a 1x12 now. It's my 2nd Z28. I had a 2x10 combo that I found just too loud to CRANK. I should have bought the Z Brake Lite then, because I still think that 2x10 sounded a little better than my 1x12. The 2x10 had the Z speakers. I've tried 4-5 different speakers in my 1x12.
They are both kinda heavy though. I dont think there would be a 5lb difference between the 1x12 and the 2x10.
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Post by bubs42 on Feb 1, 2020 18:17:56 GMT -7
I'm just a 10" kind of guy. Having played 12" speaker forever, the first time I played through a punchy 10" I was had. I associated them with flabby old amps, but they have punchy, tight bottom ends, great mid range and wonderful highs. Then there are Z 10" speakers, man those rock!
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Post by goodez on Feb 1, 2020 19:30:05 GMT -7
I will say, owning a 1x12 now. It's my 2nd Z28. I had a 2x10 combo that I found just too loud to CRANK. I should have bought the Z Brake Lite then, because I still think that 2x10 sounded a little better than my 1x12. The 2x10 had the Z speakers. I've tried 4-5 different speakers in my 1x12. They are both kinda heavy though. I dont think there would be a 5lb difference between the 1x12 and the 2x10. 1x12 is listed at 38lbs and the 2x10 is listed at 41lbs but the 2x10 was noticeably heavier when I had both cabs. No where near the gluttony of carrying my old 2x12 Blackstar HT stage 60 combo amp (66lbs). I threw my back out a couple times transporting that thing for gigs.
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Post by bigben55 on Feb 1, 2020 20:28:10 GMT -7
On the Z website under Legacy models, they're listed at 48 and 51lbs. But, I dont know if those numbers are for the newest ones. My 2x10 was a 2005, my 1x12 is a 2011, with a G12H30 speaker and a Brake Lite and it feels heavier than 48lbs. It's still lighter than the old Fenders I used to play(Twin, Super and Pro Reverbs). I will say, owning a 1x12 now. It's my 2nd Z28. I had a 2x10 combo that I found just too loud to CRANK. I should have bought the Z Brake Lite then, because I still think that 2x10 sounded a little better than my 1x12. The 2x10 had the Z speakers. I've tried 4-5 different speakers in my 1x12. They are both kinda heavy though. I dont think there would be a 5lb difference between the 1x12 and the 2x10. 1x12 is listed at 38lbs and the 2x10 is listed at 41lbs but the 2x10 was noticeably heavier when I had both cabs. No where near the gluttony of carrying my old 2x12 Blackstar HT stage 60 combo amp (66lbs). I threw my back out a couple times transporting that thing for gigs.
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Post by goodez on Feb 2, 2020 7:34:07 GMT -7
This is strictly from my short term memory bank but I recall reading that he went from 22mm down to 19mm on the woods. Or it may have been 3/4” down to 1/2”. The original wood is Baltic Birch though where as the new -Ultra-light cabinets are made from imported Italian poplar.
I read that there’s 3 generations of cabs with different configurations. The last being the convertible cab (3rd generation) which is what I have.
Edit-I just weighed my 2x10 cab and it’s 45lbs with the Celestion 10” gold. I believe those are 6lbs compared to the Z Eminence 10” which is 5 lbs. That would put it at 44lbs compared to 38lbs to the 1x12 which would account for that “noticeable” difference I was feeling.
Double Edit- This was from Doc responding to someone suggesting Doc was using MDF in the new lite cabs lol. “F'in NEVER MDF , what do you think I'm Peavey. Always 19 mm Baltic Birch, solid, thick, and HEAVY. New Ultra Lite is 12mm imported Italian Poplar Ply. Very similar to Yellow Pine in weight and sound.”
Z
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Post by bubs42 on Feb 2, 2020 13:44:56 GMT -7
I've had a Ghia, and I've had a Z-28...and I've played through enough blackfaces to know the tone. Blackfaces are scooped mids and can have sparkling highs. (the sparkling highs can be accented because of the recessed mids) The Z-28 is a very mid heavy amp. The mids are a bit overpowering and dominant. That's neither good or bad. Some may want that, others may not. If you want sparkly Voxy 'chime'...the Z-28 is NOT for you. If you want thick mid bluesy tone....the Z-28 is the amp for you. Also, it's my opinion that the Z-28's mids are 'lower mids'...as opposed to something like a vintage Marshall that has a spike in upper mids. Again, neither good nor bad.
Also, the dynamics of the Z-28 are drastically different than Fender style amps. The ef86 and the eq style are different. The dynamics can be perceived as 'unusual' at first (because they're so accustomed to Fender style amps), but after a while, a person can use those dynamics as a musical tool. Clarification: The Z-28 is wildly dynamic relative to a typical Fender amp. That ef86 of the Z-28 just inhales the guitar output, and it handles pedals differently. After a while, a player will learn to use these great dynamics as an expressive tool.
So I would say the Z-28 and a blackface are about as opposite as amps can get. Having a Ghia and a Z-28 would offer you two very different amps to choose from. (that's a good thing)
With my Princeton i'm actually using an Eminence RC. Funny enough, I have played a 64 Princeton next to it, the 64 had the stock speaker in it and they were pretty close. Other than mine had more headroom, because of the DB Rating on the RC Speaker. For me, i'm just going to have to get a Z28 Here, before I decided any on the Princeton. Might just be room for all three. LOL
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 9, 2020 13:55:47 GMT -7
Well it sounds like what i'm looking for. I'll have to try to get my hands on a Blonde. I believe the Z28 and the Ghia are the same size. I have a blonde head cab that I'm going to be selling. I converted the Ghia into a 110. Head cab is in great shape. In a similar way I really wanted a Ghia 110 in blonde. Figure I would piece it together for however long it took instead of just waiting for the one I wanted to come up. Literally was able to do it within a few weeks with the help of the forum here.
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Post by bubs42 on Feb 9, 2020 15:13:05 GMT -7
Let me know i'd be interested.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 11, 2020 13:29:01 GMT -7
Hey bubs42, any news from the seller on the blonde Z28 from Craigslist I sent you?
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Post by bubs42 on Feb 11, 2020 14:29:59 GMT -7
Hey bubs42 , any news from the seller on the blonde Z28 from Craigslist I sent you? Nope.
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Post by bubs42 on Feb 18, 2020 4:16:39 GMT -7
No luck or word on the Graiglist Z28. I do however have a Z28 OTW!
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