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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Jan 23, 2020 21:12:17 GMT -7
I'm putting this here since I don't see a more general category it would fit and it is my Ghia that I'm asking this in regards to. My question is about cords and cable that are NOT going into the front end of the amp (aka not instrument cable). Is there really much of a sonic difference when it comes to speaker cables and power cords? I need to do something in both of these departments, but I was surprised to see that a number of companies have big ticket products for each. I'm not spending $80-100 on a 4' removable power cord, but I don't mind paying a little more if it matters. I know with speaker cable it is mostly about having thick enough gauge to carry the current, my understanding some of what's out there is super overkill. Todd, I know you have some wisdom here. pcns
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Post by steiner on Jan 23, 2020 21:54:36 GMT -7
The interwebs will tell you to use a 10 or 12 gauge for speakers. Have you ever looked at the contact area of a TS cable?! I would say you can get by with 14 gauge wire, use a Speakon connector and multiply the contact area. That's where you'll improve the power transfer. The trouble is inside the amp. Nobody (that I'm aware of) offers a Speakon connector in an amplifier. I have a couple speaker cables I made from Home Depot lamp cord. They work just fine with 1/4" TS connections.
There are two categories of power cables. One is beefier than the other. I've used longer power cables that came with computers with no noticeable difference. I've also seen power cables for $100s that will "make" your stereo sound better; oh boy! I don't align with these myths.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jan 24, 2020 7:42:12 GMT -7
No disrespect to the OP, but I already worry about: Guitars Wood Pickups Strings Picks Guitar cable (with and without wireless) Pedals True bypass Patch cables Instrument cables Handwire vs PCB Tubes Power conditioning Speakers Cabinets
If I start worrying about power cables and speaker cables, I’m going to sell everything and take up the kazoo. 😁
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Post by digs57 on Jan 24, 2020 8:16:59 GMT -7
14 gauge im good.
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Post by "Z" Steve on Jan 24, 2020 9:22:25 GMT -7
No disrespect to the OP, but I already worry about: Guitars Wood Pickups Strings Picks Guitar cable (with and without wireless) Pedals True bypass Patch cables Instrument cables Handwire vs PCB Tubes Power conditioning Speakers Cabinets If I start worrying about power cables and speaker cables, I’m going to sell everything and take up the kazoo. 😁 What about which end of the guitar cable goes to the amp and then to the instrument? Is it bi-directional or does it matter?
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jan 24, 2020 11:39:27 GMT -7
Aaaaahhhhhhhh😱😱😱😱😱
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jan 24, 2020 11:53:25 GMT -7
If you're talking about sonic differences alone, I say focus on a cable with good quality plugs on it. Gauge wise, Doc's standard power cords are 16 gauge, and I think they're 12 feet in length. For speakers, a lot of guys say 14 gauge. I can't hear any difference between 14 and 16 or even 18 gauge wire, at lengths of 6 feet or so. As far as power cables, remember that behind that wall plug is Romex wire that is nothing special, which connects to miles of wire from the power sub station. Nothing in that last few feet of wire is going to make your amp sound better as long as it is a big enough gauge to handle the amplifier's needs. Doc uses 16 gauge for a 12 foot run, and that's good enough for me.
Not wanting to offend anyone here, but there's a huge controversy out there about cables. Especially in the audiophile world. I have seen speaker wire priced at $10,000 for a pair of 10 foot cables. There are AC power cables selling for thousands too. From an engineering perspective I don't think that is sensible, but if you want to spend that much, it's your cash.
Here's a great read from Roger Russell, one of the chief engineers from McIntosh Labs.
It'll give you more information than you'll ever need and it is very intelligently written. Enjoy!
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Jan 24, 2020 13:44:00 GMT -7
If you're talking about sonic differences alone, I say focus on a cable with good quality plugs on it. Gauge wise, Doc's standard power cords are 16 gauge, and I think they're 12 feet in length. For speakers, a lot of guys say 14 gauge. I can't hear any difference between 14 and 16 or even 18 gauge wire, at lengths of 6 feet or so. As far as power cables, remember that behind that wall plug is Romex wire that is nothing special, which connects to miles of wire from the power sub station. Nothing in that last few feet of wire is going to make your amp sound better as long as it is a big enough gauge to handle the amplifier's needs. Doc uses 16 gauge for a 12 foot run, and that's good enough for me.
Not wanting to offend anyone here, but there's a huge controversy out there about cables. Especially in the audiophile world. I have seen speaker wire priced at $10,000 for a pair of 10 foot cables. There are AC power cables selling for thousands too. From an engineering perspective I don't think that is sensible, but if you want to spend that much, it's your cash.
Here's a great read from Roger Russell, one of the chief engineers from McIntosh Labs.
It'll give you more information than you'll ever need and it is very intelligently written. Enjoy!
Great stuff. Thanks for this link.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Jan 24, 2020 13:45:13 GMT -7
No disrespect to the OP, but I already worry about: Guitars Wood Pickups Strings Picks Guitar cable (with and without wireless) Pedals True bypass Patch cables Instrument cables Handwire vs PCB Tubes Power conditioning Speakers Cabinets If I start worrying about power cables and speaker cables, I’m going to sell everything and take up the kazoo. 😁 I hear that underwear choice is also really important for tone. Add boxers vs briefs to the list.
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Post by John on Jan 24, 2020 14:31:01 GMT -7
I hear that underwear choice is also really important for tone. Add boxers vs briefs to the list.
"Lite" beer or regular.....
Hey, when you're playing at a dive bar....it could make a difference.
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Post by pcns on Jan 24, 2020 15:35:04 GMT -7
Lots of interesting information on this topic and personal testimonials abound.
My company focuses on durability amd quality connections. That said, we do still offer engineered cables that some of our customers want.
For me personally, I use what my favorite amps use. All of my Dr Z combo amps use 12 gauge speaker to go from the amp to the speaker. The cost difference between 12 and the lighter 14 gauge is very little.
My greater focus in on durability and using a high quality jacket that wont break or get lumpy over time. A professionally soldered cable will never come apart with normal use so those things are important to me.
Back to sound quality. I did send some cables to Z's shop a few years ago and the feedback I got from Brent was that the 14 gauge sounded a bit muffled on the top end, the 12 gauge sounded exactly like the cable they use in the amps and the engineered cable had a little more high end presence.
That's what I know. As a performing musician I want to know when I plug it in it is going to work and when I go to pack up at the end of the night it will coil up and be easy to clean off when I put my cables away to go home.
Hope this helps, Todd
Pro Cables N Sound
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Post by digs57 on Jan 24, 2020 20:57:34 GMT -7
Just don't want to leave my good 12 gauge at the jam you see...trust your ears todd!...
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Jan 25, 2020 6:55:18 GMT -7
No disrespect to the OP, but I already worry about: Guitars Wood Pickups Strings Picks Guitar cable (with and without wireless) Pedals True bypass Patch cables Instrument cables Handwire vs PCB Tubes Power conditioning Speakers Cabinets If I start worrying about power cables and speaker cables, I’m going to sell everything and take up the kazoo. 😁 I hear that underwear choice is also really important for tone. Add boxers vs briefs to the list. I think if you’re going for the cleanest signal you have to consider commando as having the least obstructions in the signal chain. My $.02. FWIW.
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Jan 28, 2020 8:29:19 GMT -7
In my demo room, I use 12 gauge speaker cable with jumbo ends. For instrument cables, it's Proco Excellines bulk cable and I solder them up myself to 1/4" Switchcraft plugs. Inside my cabs it's usually 16 gauge copper stranded wire.
I've had two guys in 16 years show up with their own high dollar instrument cables they insisted on using. One sounded the same, the other had this really annoying high end that thinned out the bottom end of his signal. We plugged that guitar into a regular cord, and it was mud city trying two different cables that sounded fine with other guitars. My guess is that guitar had something grounded, crossed or something.
I doubt you would find any high end cables in use up until the last 20 years, at least I didn't. I tried a few, didn't see the need to spend the extra money. YMMV.
Jim
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Jan 29, 2020 6:40:34 GMT -7
In my demo room, I use 12 gauge speaker cable with jumbo ends. For instrument cables, it's Proco Excellines bulk cable and I solder them up myself to 1/4" Switchcraft plugs. Inside my cabs it's usually 16 gauge copper stranded wire.
I've had two guys in 16 years show up with their own high dollar instrument cables they insisted on using. One sounded the same, the other had this really annoying high end that thinned out the bottom end of his signal. We plugged that guitar into a regular cord, and it was mud city trying two different cables that sounded fine with other guitars. My guess is that guitar had something grounded, crossed or something.
I doubt you would find any high end cables in use up until the last 20 years, at least I didn't. I tried a few, didn't see the need to spend the extra money. YMMV.
Jim
Jim, thanks for that perspective. Coming from a guy who does speakers that's helpful. That was one of the things that got me thinking. I know your speaker cable doesn't need the shielding in the same way that the guitar cable does. It seemed odd to spend huge bucks on a speaker cable when most of the cabs I've seen have 14-16 gauge going from the amp to the speaker or from the jack to the speaker in ext cabs. I wasn't going to spend high end money, but I was curious if I needed to be above $50 and it doesn't sound like that makes a difference. - Matthew
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Jan 29, 2020 8:42:21 GMT -7
Jim, thanks for that perspective. Coming from a guy who does speakers that's helpful. That was one of the things that got me thinking. I know your speaker cable doesn't need the shielding in the same way that the guitar cable does. It seemed odd to spend huge bucks on a speaker cable when most of the cabs I've seen have 14-16 gauge going from the amp to the speaker or from the jack to the speaker in ext cabs. I wasn't going to spend high end money, but I was curious if I needed to be above $50 and it doesn't sound like that makes a difference. - Matthew The Bullet cable guy came over to my place in 2007, dragged a lot of cables along with him to try out through various amps, cabs, guitars.
I bought one red curly cord instrument cable just to say I had one. The plugs have failed twice on it.
No speaker, no other patch cables, nada. We tried them all and he couldn't hear a noticeable difference between what I was using and his cables, either.
There's a lot of voodoo out there that can usually be dispelled with an accurate side by side test. Glad to help you out with this.
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Post by lowbudget on Jan 29, 2020 9:25:31 GMT -7
I’ve often said that the quickest way to evacuate and clear a room full of audiophiles is to simply whisper the words “double blind test”.
Much quicker than an old-fashioned fire alarm.
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Post by steiner on Feb 11, 2020 15:20:10 GMT -7
I’ve often said that the quickest way to evacuate and clear a room full of audiophiles is to simply whisper the words “double blind test”. Much quicker than an old-fashioned fire alarm. ^^^^Love it!^^^^
I've always been curious about the amp power cord. There are effectively two common types that I've seen: SVT and SJT. The source I found indicates additional classifications for oil and water resistance, medical grade, etc; mine don't carry those.
The SJT has a thicker jacket. the source I found sells the grounded (3 prong) cable in 10 (30A) to 18 (10A) gage leads.
The SVT is thinner. The web site I found has SVT in 18 (10A?) gage leads.
I've purchased 100W amps with both cords. The SJT is suited/rated for more extreme environments and higher temperatures so, if you play your gear in the Amazon rainforest...
I would say if you have a long (25+ft) run, you might consider upgrading the power cord, or buy a 12 gage extension cord and save a few $s.
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Feb 20, 2020 10:51:08 GMT -7
Don't forget your cable lifters. I use 20 of them for the guitar cable running from my board to the amp.
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Post by purpletele on Feb 20, 2020 13:03:48 GMT -7
Don't forget your cable lifters. I use 20 of them for the guitar cable running from my board to the amp.
Surely you Jest. Will you store them in the new House expansion?
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Post by pcns on Feb 20, 2020 13:18:53 GMT -7
Don't forget your cable lifters. I use 20 of them for the guitar cable running from my board to the amp.
Surely you Jest. Will you store them in the new House expansion? The unequal spacing between conductors will affect the capacitance
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Feb 20, 2020 13:26:40 GMT -7
Don't forget your cable lifters. I use 20 of them for the guitar cable running from my board to the amp.
Surely you Jest. Will you store them in the new House expansion? yes, i jest.
and stop calling me Shirley.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 20, 2020 14:41:16 GMT -7
Surely you Jest. Will you store them in the new House expansion? yes, i jest.
and stop calling me Shirley.
So these would be the equivalent of a bra for your cables?
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Feb 20, 2020 15:02:18 GMT -7
yes, i jest.
and stop calling me Shirley.
So these would be the equivalent of a bra for your cables? more of a jock strap. as my dad always used to say "your mother is not much of a sports fan but she's a great athletic supporter".
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Feb 20, 2020 15:25:16 GMT -7
Plus at ~$30 a pop they're a cheap addition to ensure pure signal transference.
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Feb 20, 2020 16:27:38 GMT -7
Plus at ~$30 a pop they're a cheap addition to ensure pure signal transference. Best $600 I ever spent. Even boosted the amp's clean headroom by .78db.
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Post by helmi on Feb 20, 2020 17:02:13 GMT -7
Plus at ~$30 a pop they're a cheap addition to ensure pure signal transference. Best $600 I ever spent. Even boosted the amp's clean headroom by .78db. LMFAO! YOUR KILLING ME!
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bigez
New Member
Posts: 46
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Post by bigez on Feb 20, 2020 20:23:22 GMT -7
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