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Post by markT on Mar 13, 2020 4:16:27 GMT -7
Things I have learned from this thread:
1) My JETTA is even more unique than I realized, making it that much more impressive. Love this amp and has quickly become my favorite Z ever! And the most cost friendly. And that's saying a lot~
2) I will never need or buy a Collider. I have enough delays that I like just fine. Don't need a feature packed pedal that may induce noise.
Disclaimer- I tried a budget priced CMatmods Deeelay in the loop when I first got my JETTA. Sounded fine. No issues. But I have't used the loop since. I am more of an old school guy and grew up with amps that never had effects loops. However, I will do some testing with the JETTA loop and my various pedals tomorrow.
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Post by DRZ on Mar 13, 2020 5:20:06 GMT -7
Thanks for posting that Dean. The owner of company admits his pedals are noisy, he states its more about dynamics then it is noise floor. Z |
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Post by lowbudget on Mar 13, 2020 7:50:29 GMT -7
Thanks Perry for your very eloquent design review of the JETTA. I'm sorry but every time I try to describe my design intensions I feel like a polyester jacket waring Used Car Salesman, I'm just not that good at being a salesman for my products. This is where experienced users like Perry are so important, real word evaluation with in depth understanding. I have designed 50 differant models of guitar amps to date , and I must say I'm very proud of the JETTA. To me it stands in line to take the place of the Carmen Ghia as a stalwart DR.Z Amp. Unlike the Ghia it is capable filling large venues with rich output tube driven tones the likes of no other amp on todays market. All for a very reasonable price of $1399.00 , believe me other amp companies and I won't name names would price the JETTA at twice my list price. I was so proud of its sound and package I wanted to make it available to as many players as I could and price point is a deciding factor for many players purchase. damn my profit margin. I have always tried to design amps with an " outside of the Box " approach. This does lend to criticism by those who want to compare my designs to other standard amps and their standard operation. Guitarists by nature do not except change in gear very easily , and tend to resort to old tried and true designs. Well, thanks to players like Perry, Brad Paisley, Joe Walsh, Walter Becker RIP, Buddy Whittington, Steve Miller, Adrian Raso, just to name a few my amps have graced some of the largest stages in the world, and have been enjoyed by world class Guitarists. Please don't let the unique white noise gain that tracks with the Master Volume , not the typical input gain of other designs limit you from trying a JETTA, it is a surprisingly loud amp in a small package and its S/N ratio is very typical for amps of this power range. The JETTA will reward you with the richest Output Tube tone you have ever experienced, its not your daddies typical 12AX7 driven tube amp . Rant off, DR.Z Doc, I now get it about the white noise associated with higher master settings. You and perry have done a great job explaining it! But what about the loud hum that comes with high master settings with the loop engaged? It’s distinctly different from from white noise. Would it have the same origin? I had linked to a video of it earlier in this thread but it has since been taken down. |
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Post by DRZ on Mar 13, 2020 8:17:23 GMT -7
Look lowbudget, if the pedal has a high noise floor as many buffered digital pedals do then by maxing the master on the Jetta will increase the noise, as stated by the owner of Source Audio.
I don't know what you mean about hum, as that is an issue with the power supply feeding the pedal.
I'm really getting tired getting grilled about an amp that you no longer own and having to answer to you.
You seem to be just fanning the flames, and I'm not alone in that opinion.
If your initial amp had an issue you should have exercised your warranty and had it looked at from the factory.
I am asking owners of Jetta's to test the many pedals they own and report back to me as to which ones work and those that don't.
I will include a disclaimer in the operators manual once I gather enough data.
The Jetta is an AMAZING amp but it should not defined by an add on option.
Z
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Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Mar 13, 2020 8:25:37 GMT -7
^^^^^^^^^^^
+20 Gb
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Post by DeanG on Mar 13, 2020 9:03:24 GMT -7
I do not claim to be an expert on hum isolation. Whether the hum source is faulty ground or power supply noise (digital pedals require power supply isolation between ports on a multiple port P/S). However as an end-user the approach could be a couple of options to identify the hum source. 1. Faulty ground, ensure all 1/4 instrument Jacks ring nut are tight. DeoxIT all Jacks to clean connections. 2. Ground isolation using transformer signal coupling. Behringer MicroHD HD400 is a cheap passive transformer signal coupling device. Good to have one of these in your gig bag in case you experience hum noise when your pedal board is plugged into your Amp's input (especially a stereo amp set up, isolating one amp's input is critical to hum elimination). The venue may have your pedal board and amp on different circuits where one may have a faulty earth ground. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KUD2G4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=13. Utilize the manufacturers supplied power supply (wall wart) to ensure clean in spec power is delivered to the digital pedal. www.amazon.com/Truetone-NW1-1-Spot-Adapter/dp/B0002GZLZQ/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=1-+spot&qid=1584114221&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-114. External device inducing the hum into your signal chain, iPhone, fluorescent lights, guitar pickups, etc. PS: Regarding the Source Audio Ventris and Collider, I was not picking on SA, I believe they produce great products. My Eventide Time Factor produces digital noise too. However, the combination of both the Time Factor and Ventris was to much idle noise, so the Ventris was replaced with a Strymon Big Sky. (may be Strymon does some digital noise reduction tricks, not sure if the dynamic range is compromised) |
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Post by lowbudget on Mar 13, 2020 10:11:07 GMT -7
Look lowbudget, if the pedal has a high noise floor as many buffered digital pedals do then by maxing the master on the Jetta will increase the noise, as stated by the owner of Source Audio. I don't know what you mean about hum, as that is an issue with the power supply feeding the pedal. I'm really getting tired getting grilled about an amp that you no longer own and having to answer to you. You seem to be just fanning the flames, and I'm not alone in that opinion. If your initial amp had an issue you should have exercised your warranty and had it looked at from the factory. I am asking owners of Jetta's to test the many pedals they own and report back to me as to which ones work and those that don't. I will include a disclaimer in the operators manual once I gather enough data. The Jetta is an AMAZING amp but it should not defined by an add on option. Z Doc, the pedal in question was a brand new Flint with the dedicated power adapter. My desire was neither then nor now to fan the flames, in fact I resisted posting about it for a long time. Instead I waited until others had done so, for two reasons. First and foremost, I didn't want to do anything to dampen enthusiasm for your newest creation. I've been a Z owner and supporter since 2006 and couldn't count all I've bought since then. I currently own 12, including a new Maz Jr. MKII I just bought last week, so I hope I wouldn't qualify as a rabble rouser. Secondly, perhaps not being as astute as many here in amp design and operation, hard as I tried I couldn't rule out operator error (although I sure did all I could think of). Knowing that you can be rightfully defensive when you perceive an attack on one of your babies, I have done the best I could to tread lightly and not raise your ire. Evidently I have failed, and for that I do apologize. My only interest is and has been owning a great Jetta, and I would be only too thrilled to write a check today for one that I was sure was operating as designed. Perhaps if I had the knowledge of perryr I would have known all along that all was OK. Again, I'm sorry for giving the wrong impression. |
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Post by DRZ on Mar 13, 2020 10:48:20 GMT -7
Thanks for not getting upset with my sensitivity.
But I have to say again the Flint is the pedal we test every JETTA with prior to shipping and they work extremely well.
I just got done testing a Jetta with a Flint .
There must have been something unusual for you to have two display the same issue, I would have loved to have bench it and resolve the problem.
Z
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Post by lowbudget on Mar 13, 2020 11:02:24 GMT -7
Thanks for not getting upset with my sensitivity. But I have to say again the Flint is the pedal we test every JETTA with prior to shipping and they work extremely well. I just got done testing a Jetta with a Flint . There must have been something unusual for you to have two display the same issue, I would have loved to have bench it and resolve the problem. Z Thanks doc, I appreciate it. Im wondering about something Frankie said about the power supply and the Flint unit itself. I know I tried moving the power supply to a different outlet but I don’t trust my memory as to whether or not I moved the actual pedal off the top of the amp. Since reverb/Trem is about all I use it is often my habit to sit the pedal itself on top of the amp. Is it likely that if I did in fact leave the Flint on top of the amp that may have caused my problem? I’d truly (and rightfully) feel like a fool if that were the case but since I usually do it without trouble I may not have taken the Jetta’s hotter than usual transformers into account. It’s this kind of thing that caused me to say I couldn’t rule out operator error. |
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Post by DRZ on Mar 13, 2020 11:15:48 GMT -7
All I can add is the Flint does have a dedicated high currant wall wart that is the only power supply you should use with it without causing the Flint to mess up.
Z
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Post by frankie on Mar 13, 2020 12:05:30 GMT -7
Thanks for not getting upset with my sensitivity. But I have to say again the Flint is the pedal we test every JETTA with prior to shipping and they work extremely well. I just got done testing a Jetta with a Flint . There must have been something unusual for you to have two display the same issue, I would have loved to have bench it and resolve the problem. Z Thanks doc, I appreciate it. Im wondering about something Frankie said about the power supply and the Flint unit itself. I know I tried moving the power supply to a different outlet but I don’t trust my memory as to whether or not I moved the actual pedal off the top of the amp. Since reverb/Trem is about all I use it is often my habit to sit the pedal itself on top of the amp. Is it likely that if I did in fact leave the Flint on top of the amp that may have caused my problem? I’d truly (and rightfully) feel like a fool if that were the case but since I usually do it without trouble I may not have taken the Jetta’s hotter than usual transformers into account. It’s this kind of thing that caused me to say I couldn’t rule out operator error. Yes, 100%, having a high current pedal like Flint or any other high current digital FX on top of the amp would have caused noise issues. Especially on a combo, as the guts are directly underneath the top of the cab and oriented upwards towards the top of the cab. A low current analog unit would be less likely to do this, but regardless, signal running that close to the loop itself, will cause noise, especially in the Jetta which is a high gain circuit to begin with, that has a high voltage buffered FX loop inside of it. |
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Post by lowbudget on Mar 13, 2020 12:54:44 GMT -7
Thank you Frankie. Where I would have set the Flint would have been pretty much directly over the loop. I'm guessing that I had gotten away with it on other Z amps with more standard loops and less gain structure than the Jetta, but between the Metro loop and the Jetta's gain topology it caught up with me.
Knowing the potential problem I was in fact using the Flint's correct power supply but I'd assume that it too must be away from the amp where the Jetta is concerned?
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Post by perryr on Mar 13, 2020 13:30:37 GMT -7
Thank you Frankie. Where I would have set the Flint would have been pretty much directly over the loop. I'm guessing that I had gotten away with it on other Z amps with more standard loops and less gain structure than the Jetta, but between the Metro loop and the Jetta's gain topology it caught up with me. Knowing the potential problem I was in fact using the Flint's correct power supply but I'd assume that it too must be away from the amp where the Jetta is concerned? Ya, when testing the collider in the loop i had it on the amp and there was very noticeable HUM, i grabbed some 10’ cables, relocated the collider and it resolved. Id say for sure the hum you heard was due to proximity to the amp. BTW, for anyone that is interested in the collider, i do like and use the collider, im running it into the front of my Jetta (its on my pedalboard). I think it sounds great, has a lot of options for cool presets for both Reverb and Delay. I use delay or verb on maybe a third of the stuff we do, so not all the time, but when i do use delay or verb for effect, the collider is cool and works for me. Its a bit noisy but that hasnt been any trouble from my pedalboard into the front end. |
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Post by lowbudget on Mar 13, 2020 13:34:33 GMT -7
Appreciate it perry!
The Flint actually offers as much as I'll ever need and more but since it's kind of a bread and butter pedal I never thought about it causing a problem.
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Post by rollyfoster on Mar 13, 2020 17:57:13 GMT -7
Man I feel like I stirred up quite the shitstorm in here.
Many thanks to the Doc, Frankie, and Perryr for all the input and tech explanations. I’ve been aware of Dr Z forever but this is my first time owning one and y’all have been extremely helpful.
If I may add a suggestion...if there is a revision to the manual I think it would be a good idea to dive a little deeper into what to expect from the PPIMV and power section interaction. How they interact and what to expect as things get turned up more. Maybe even a little video demo or AMA segment?
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Post by buckeye on Mar 13, 2020 18:05:59 GMT -7
I've been following this thread for the last couple of days and learned a lot. Thanks Frankie, Perry, and Doc!
Tonight I plugged my Tele tuned to open G into my Jetta, all 3 dials at noon and ripped into The Stones "Honky Tonk Woman".
This amp rocks!
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Post by gearmana on Apr 16, 2020 12:30:40 GMT -7
Man, I love this amp, but it's the absolute most finicky amp I've ever owned in terms of noise.
I've come to accept that the noise goes up with the master, but the FX loop just seems to randomly go up in noise with even a slight change in my configuration.
I have a Boss Waza Chorus, Boss Waza Delay and EQD Ghost Echo in the loop. The different between these plugged into the loop and plugged into the front is huge. I go from the normal mild hiss with the master at 12 with them in front, to a constant HISSSSSSSSSSS if they're in the loop.
No clue why this is. Nothing changes between the two configurations besides the introduction of a couple of cables, but I've tested them repeatedly, and even tried others just in case.
I'm thinking it may be time to accept that I just can't live with this amp. It makes me freaking sad.
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Post by gearmana on Apr 21, 2020 9:36:38 GMT -7
Lord, I've officially bought new cables, a new Truetone CS12 power supply, tried various pedals - I just don't understand this noise.
Nothing changes at all when I switch from the loop to all in front.
One thing I've noticed is that engaging the pedals, any of them, increases the noise significantly - particularly the Boss CE-2W and the EQD Ghost Echo - the hiss is actually louder than the guitar / effects.
At this point, I'm thinking there has to be something wrong here.
One thing I haven't done is swap all the tubes.
Could this be a tube issue? If so, which would be the most likely culprit?
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