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Post by Paul G on Jul 13, 2019 13:43:25 GMT -7
I too am on the fence between the Stomp or the Effects. I haven't gigged in years, and as others have seen I'm just getting back into an attempt to play guitar (once I get doc's orders that I can lift things over 8 lbs).
I have always kept my effects pedal board very linier because I mainly go front of amp for Maz 38 NR or Carmen Ghia. My NR has an effects loop but it's ancient (2005) and as we all know it's not buffered. My board hasn't changed in nearly 12 years... The only thing I've added is a Wampler Comp, which I got a great deal on "Offer Up" like 4 months ago, but have yet to plug it in and try it. (LOL, maybe it was a great deal cause the bloody thing don't work... LOL).
My Board is mainly overdrives going into Supatrem and Maxon AD 999. I literally have no ethereal effects because going front of amp can get kind of muddy and lost in the mix. But I like the idea of either on the stomp (and I'm pretty sure the Effects) will do the same thing, is that you can create a block and put your physical board in the block chain. That's cool!
I still have my pro-tools rig which is now 12 years old!!! A testament to the first gen Intel iMac's in 2007! LOL. The rig can't do much else except run PT, Waves and drive my Dynaudio monitors and KRK sub. And I have a Rack Eleven that's about 10 years old too... (1st gen).
So, my question is: Can I gen an Empress Buffer and drop it in the back of my NR 38 to use the 4CM of Effects (or Stomp)? Or Should I send my NR 38 off to the Doc and have him mod it to the new MKII... Again, I hope there isn't a time window for this, I still can't lift anything heavy, none the less ship off a guitar amp LOL.
I'm leaning towards the latter.... Have the Doc mod my Maz (which I still love, especially with the 1959/60 GE NOS rectifier in it).
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. So for me picking up either unit would be cool (or even both...) but I think my amp needs to be updated... Is that a logical thought process or am I way off base?
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 13, 2019 18:17:23 GMT -7
Doc' using a buffered effects loop from Metropoulos amps that is really good in his new Nova and some other amps. Check with him or Don at the shop about possible mods.
The HX Effects is really really flexible. You can set it up with the '4CM' method mentioned above, or straight in. You can order the effects in any order you want, and that includes (multiple if you want) effects loop inserts into the HX unit itself. It's amazing. I'm still on the learning curve but it's intuitive and I'm getting better every day with it. Tomorrow evening is the first gig with it. Then there's another one on next Wednesday, an outdoor gig at a local park. Gonna be a great week.
Hope your back heals up fast, Paul (and Russell). I've had my share of back issues and I can sure commiserate with you all!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 14, 2019 13:54:53 GMT -7
Interesting. I have the HX Stomp. Seems to have all the same stuff you're talking about, plus the amp sims. It can do IR as well. I'm only using the effects for now. Actually, when I look at this now the 'Effects' seems more a fit for what I'd want. I'd only want delay/modulation/reverb effects and a button to turn each one on/off (overdrives I'm indifferent to). I'm not sure if the 'Stomps's" three buttons can be assigned this way. The third button on the Stomp is defaulted to tap tempo, which is pretty handy if you're using delays. So that leaves only two buttons for switching things on and off. But there are some workarounds. First is that you can redefine the third button to turn effects on and off. If you do this you'll want to define your delays with explicit times. The second is that you can add up to two additional outboard buttons and use them to either turn on and off effects, or to bank up and down. I'm using mine to bank up and down. If you do this, you can't use an expression pedal in that same jack. The third is that you can have a single button press do two things. For example, you can turn on reverb while at the same time turning off delays. I'm also doing this. For some setups, I'm using this feature to turn off the Timmy overdrive, while turning on the Chandler Tube distortion. The fourth is probably apparent - you can use a MIDI pedal to fully control the HX Stomp. Of course that gets you away from a small pedalboard unless you can find a MIDI pedal that is also tiny.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 8:48:23 GMT -7
Okay, so I'm sufficiently intrigued that I ordered an HX Effects from Sweetwater (they were kind enough to update the firmware before shipping, even--love those guys!), and they even gave me an answer to my question about assigning different effects to different outs, so the delays, reverbs and mods go to your amp's lopp and the ODs, boosts, distortions, etc., go in the front. Here's what they said if anybody's interested:
"You actually can set up the HX Effects and HX stomp like that! You can hop into the configurator with it plugged into your computer, and set up one of the sends (only one send on stomp) as just the mod/time stuff, and use that in the FX loop of your amp. Then use the regular output just for drives/dirt."
So that's pretty awesome. If I like it, I'll probably get the expression pedal, too. I might try to gig with it at our upcoming bar gig in August, which is a good place to try stuff out. I like the relatively small footprint and the idea that it's all-in-one, minimizing possible cable failures, etc., which can be a problem with a standard pedalboard. Also, if it works out, look for a major Flealux pedal sale, coming soon!
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jul 16, 2019 10:27:02 GMT -7
My only reluctance is what the ODs sound like. That’s always been the weak link in any multieffect unit. With the HX Effects I’d probably keep my Plimsoul in front, but if the TS, Klon, and OCD models are good I could lose that. And it seems the HX will allow you to switch between amps - so maybe the Lehle could be retired as well. My board would shrink drastically 😁
Decisions, decisions. Still interested to hear about the learning curve on this unit - most videos make it “seem” easy and straightforward, but don’t they all? I’m very tech savvy but don’t want to buy something I have to spend 40 hours figuring out.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 16, 2019 11:14:38 GMT -7
I gigged mine night before last and it worked out great. The overdrives I used were the Timmy (Teemah) and the Chandler Tube Driver (Tube Drive) ones. And this is really cool, I put a Gain stage right at the end so I can get whatever volume boost or cut I set it to if I want more get up and go. I kept my Plimsoul and Dirty Shirley pedals on the board just in case, but I didn't need them. I loved the sound and feel, and the bass player said that my tone was really good, too. Oh, and I used the "Mutant Filter" set up as an Auto-Wah for some Motown stuff and it was really nice. In fact, the band leader came up to me after the show and said he really liked whatever I was doing back there! I really like the overdrives I thought that was going to be the weak link. I've never liked digital overdrives but I gotta tell you, these sound good. The way I use mine so far is to put any outside drives before the HX, then I go through a Ernie Ball MVP active volume pedal and to the amp front end. I haven't even tried using the effects loop or 4 CM yet. So far it's a winner. I'm keeping mine.
EDIT: One thing that I was worried about is adjusting the "pedals" on the fly. I found it really easy, even during songs, to set volume, tone, etc. I'm really pretty impressed with the way it sets up and plays. It's intuitive, not messy. You play it, not program it. (Unless you want to go deep and you can do that too...)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 9:09:26 GMT -7
I just unboxed this critter about a half hour ago, and I have to say--it's pretty interesting. The mod sounds, delays and reverbs I've tried so far are all about as good as you'd get from, say, a Strymon or similar digital pedal (though if anybody figures out how to get a good surf-y drip out of it I'd sure like to know), setup in stomp mode is super easy/intuitive. I'm on the fence a bit about the dirt sounds--so far the best one for me seems to be the Tube Driver; the Klon/Minotaur is pretty close to the Klon KTR, the OCD sounds a lot like the OCD V1 I used to have, etc. Haven't delved into the fuzzes yet, but will shortly. So far it seems like a ton of bang for the buck, and at this point it could pretty easily replace any/all of the delays and mod pedals I've got sitting around. The tricky bit is going to be nailing "my" overdriven sound, but I'm already close with the Tube Driver thing, as I say. As a final note--I think I mentioned that I owned a Helix LT for a bit, but ended up sending it back because it just felt like overkill with all the amp, cab and mic models, etc.--a lot of money tied up in functions I was super unlikely to use. I feel differently about the HX Effects--I could see using this critter at shows, and I think there are in fact some advantages over a conventional pedalboard. So, a couple of cautious thumbs-up fro the HX Effects--really does sound pretty great running into the front of my Z-Lux; I imagine it'll interact similarly with the Cure, also.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 17, 2019 9:45:22 GMT -7
Cool, Jon...I'm pretty happy with mine too. Try using an EQ in front of or behind the drive block. Also, if you turn on a drive and then touch the switch with your finger and keep contact for 3 or 4 seconds it opens up more controls for the drive (or whatever). Then you push the button under the window you want to adjust and it activates the three small knobs for those controls. Press "Mode exit/edit" to get back to the previous screen, save your settings and you're good. There is a ton of support online for it, and you can download settings easily and drop them in from the "HX Edit" app that you'll want to download from the Line 6 website. While I was there I also downloaded the "HX Edit Pilot's guide" and the "Line 6 Updater". When you hook up to the computer it's very easy to set up the order of effects, and assign whatever you want to do. You can go as deep as you like.
I'm going to try putting an equalizer in front of or behind (or both) of each drive and see what that does. But so far, I've been happy with using a "Gain" block and setting the tone for the drives with the PC.
I'm going to gig mine for the second time tonight. Having fun with this thing so far. I used the Z-Lux and Flying V on Sunday, tonight it's going to be my Les Paul Custom and probably the Z-Lux again. I've got to try other amps but so far I've used the Lux and the Cure last night at rehearsal. It worked well with both.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 10:36:40 GMT -7
Cool, Jon...I'm pretty happy with mine too. Try using an EQ in front of or behind the drive block. Also, if you turn on a drive and then touch the switch with your finger and keep contact for 3 or 4 seconds it opens up more controls for the drive (or whatever). Then you push the button under the window you want to adjust and it activates the three small knobs for those controls. Press "Mode exit/edit" to get back to the previous screen, save your settings and you're good. There is a ton of support online for it, and you can download settings easily and drop them in from the " HX Edit" app that you'll want to download from the Line 6 website. While I was there I also downloaded the " HX Edit Pilot's guide" and the " Line 6 Updater". When you hook up to the computer it's very easy to set up the order of effects, and assign whatever you want to do. You can go as deep as you like. I'm going to try putting an equalizer in front of or behind (or both) of each drive and see what that does. But so far, I've been happy with using a "Gain" block and setting the tone for the drives with the PC. I'm going to gig mine for the second time tonight. Having fun with this thing so far. I used the Z-Lux and Flying V on Sunday, tonight it's going to be my Les Paul Custom and probably the Z-Lux again. I've got to try other amps but so far I've used the Lux and the Cure last night at rehearsal. It worked well with both. Thanks--all good stuff! Quick question for the not-digitally-minded: let's say I set it up in stomp mode, couple of drives, boost, doubler, trem, delay. How do I save my settings so they're still there when I turn the thing on at a gig?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 10:59:07 GMT -7
Ah--never mind. Figured it out. Apparently you press "save."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 14:18:31 GMT -7
Pretty cool gizmo. I think I like it best into the loop on my Mini Dirty Shirley, with actual dirt pedals going in the front. Could use the HX's dirt pedals for small gigs, though.
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Post by KeithA on Jul 17, 2019 14:38:41 GMT -7
Pretty cool gizmo. I think I like it best into the loop on my Mini Dirty Shirley, with actual dirt pedals going in the front. Could use the HX's dirt pedals for small gigs, though. I looked at both these units last week at my dealer and I thought the layout of the 'Effects' was exactly what I'd want it for. I'd only want to run multiple time-based and modulation effects through my Bogner.Sounds like exactly what you have done to e DIrty Shirley. I'm running reverb & delay now (Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master) but if I could run flanger/chorus/etc all from one unit it would be great. Plus, the 'Effects' was smaller than I expected 😎 ....plus I'm only a basement dweller so this thing would be more than enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 17:00:02 GMT -7
I think you'll dig it. Apparently much depends on the type of effects loop your amp has--buffered loops work better, according to YouTube.
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Post by KeithA on Jul 17, 2019 17:06:39 GMT -7
I think you'll dig it. Apparently much depends on the type of effects loop your amp has--buffered loops work better, according to YouTube. Lol...I was just going to ask you about that. I saw the one decent video where the guy demonstrated a noticeable loss of fidelity (Revv amp) and that one has a buffered loop, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 12:02:47 GMT -7
Took me a couple of minutes to figure out the 4CM, but once I got it going it's pretty cool. I could see this critter easily replacing the board I've been using with my Friedman; maybe not so much with the Lux, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 20:21:22 GMT -7
Learning curve relatively short compared to the Helix LT. Pretty easy to set up in various configurations. No need to mess with blocks, etc., if you want to just keep it simple, but you can get into deep programming mode if you want to (I don't want to). So far sounds best using 4CM with my Friedman--using the amp's natural drive sounds with a few mod effects, delay, one dirt pedal for sustaining leads and a comp as a boost. I'm thinking of adding an expression pedal so I can exploit the wah settings.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 12:51:08 GMT -7
Just now A/B-ing with my main gigging board, and man, I gotta say--after a bit of tweaking and knob-spinning, it's shockingly close to my drives, delay, and mod effects. $600 HX; $1200 pedalboard--and the HX easily replaces the board I'm using with my Friedman, and the small board I typically run with my Cure, and I'd still be using only a fraction of the HX's capability. In a way, I hate that it's this good--it's digital! Line 6 is for kids! Hell, I'm a total pedal geek--have been for years! But it's really good--what can I say?
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jul 20, 2019 13:18:33 GMT -7
Ah, snap. I’m gonna have to pull the trigger.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 20, 2019 16:51:28 GMT -7
I couldn't believe it either. Like I've said a hundred times or more, I'm an analog man all the way. But this little thing rocks. I like mine better every day, and like Jon, I haven't scratched the surface of what's in there. Way cool...you'll be glad you let the hammer fall, daddy!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 7:27:50 GMT -7
Ah, snap. I’m gonna have to pull the trigger. I expect it's not for everyone, but as a compact, all-in-one, relatively low-cost, infinitely configurable, 6-pedal (I guess you can do more than that but haven't looked into it yet) gigging board with about a million presets, easy to navigate banks, universal tap tempo (or not) and built-in tuner/mute (a little funky but it works), I'm not sure there's anything that beats it right now. It's not going to replace all of my long-time favorite pedals by any means--they're tried and true and have held up beautifully over numerous gigs--but I probably will sell off a bunch of my surplus over the next couple of weeks.
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Post by Paul G on Jul 21, 2019 22:26:59 GMT -7
So.... I’m going to experiment as soon as I can physically get the amps out of the cases. The mrs offered to do the heavy lifting. The old Z-Best is heavy. I got an Empress Buffer + I mapped out the 4 cable method (The term Delay will more than likely be Stomp or HX Effects). In theory this should work but if not, I’ll contract Don and have my old gal sent back for the mods. For those on the fence with the new modeling, There are YouTube vids where folks have put “the real pedals” in the loop of Stomp or HX FX, assigned a switch and a/b’d the real from the model. You’d be splitting hairs to tell the difference. I’m leaning towards Stomp because of my PT Daw and I may end up getting two L6 Powercabs for Stereo... that gives me the option to do 4 cable to MAZ 38 w/ just effects and or go to DAW or PC’s with amps and cabs. The new L6 Powercabs are modeling the speakers if you opt to disable the cabs in Stomp or Helix.
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Post by Dan F"i"fe on Jul 23, 2019 16:50:36 GMT -7
I'm intrigued, This video shows some different ways using the stomp to incorporate the amp, pedals, effects loop, dead amp, etc...
Less talk more playing... lol
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Post by Rhythmark on Jul 25, 2019 17:51:58 GMT -7
Any one try the Helix? Ive read some good things about it. On video some of the presets lack the depth of the original but ive heard fine tuning can be done to enhance the sound.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 18:14:14 GMT -7
I had a Helix LT for a bit, ended up returning it, though. It's an impressive piece of gear, but it was overkill for me--too much money tied up in functions I probably was never going to use.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2019 8:33:05 GMT -7
Interesting side note--I bought the recommended Mission/Line 6 wah-expression pedal because I wanted to try out the HX's built-in wah sounds--I'm fussy about wah, it turns out, and use it sparingly--hate it when it's too bright. Didn't love the HX's wahs, even after much tweaking and exploring of the HX Effects forum, and the response of the Mission pedal is kind of weird--just doesn't have the right Q settings for me--so just on a whim I tried running my other, actual wah pedals into the fron end of the HX, after the guitar--works great. I'm not really an expression pedal guy, and I've never used a volume pedal, so I'm thinking I'll send the Mission pedal back.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 26, 2019 8:59:33 GMT -7
I agree, although I haven't tried all the settings I've got the Mission pedal too and I don't like it for wah. The cool thing is the envelope filter blocks can be easily set up for a very passable auto-wah.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jul 29, 2019 17:58:11 GMT -7
So in “stompbox” mode (assigning an effect to a footswitch just like a pedalboard) can you still assign 2 effects to one switch? Like a chorus and reverb to a single switch, or so you have to go to the “snapshot” thing or something else?
I’d envision having some ODs and boosts on dedicated switches, and then having a chorus/verb or chorus/delay combined on a switch if possible.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 29, 2019 19:30:26 GMT -7
So in “stompbox” mode (assigning an effect to a footswitch just like a pedalboard) can you still assign 2 effects to one switch? Like a chorus and reverb to a single switch, or so you have to go to the “snapshot” thing or something else? I’d envision having some ODs and boosts on dedicated switches, and then having a chorus/verb or chorus/delay combined on a switch if possible. The manual says you can assign multiple effects to one switch, and you can make it so they come on/off or so that hitting the switch toggles between two effects. I'm pretty sure you can do it in stompbox or snapshot modes, but I haven't tried it yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 9:36:55 GMT -7
So in “stompbox” mode (assigning an effect to a footswitch just like a pedalboard) can you still assign 2 effects to one switch? Like a chorus and reverb to a single switch, or so you have to go to the “snapshot” thing or something else? I’d envision having some ODs and boosts on dedicated switches, and then having a chorus/verb or chorus/delay combined on a switch if possible. The manual says you can assign multiple effects to one switch, and you can make it so they come on/off or so that hitting the switch toggles between two effects. I'm pretty sure you can do it in stompbox or snapshot modes, but I haven't tried it yet. Yeah--it's apparently doable, in fact I came across it in one of the factory presets, but I haven't tried it yet. On another note--ran it with my Cure at practice on Sunday, and while it was okay in that setting I didn't love it. Will hold off on gigging it, I think, 'til I've had a chance to do a few more tweaks.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 30, 2019 13:23:50 GMT -7
I'm gigging mine tonight at a Concert in the Parks event in Imlay City MI. 78 degrees, 23% humidity, should be nice. My Custom Shop '64 Strat into a Plimsoul, Way Huge Green Rhino, and then to the HX Effects. I'm using the envelope filter, Gain, and Wah with just a taste of slapback delay to fatten it up some more. Then on to the Mighty Z-Lux.
The Strat sounds so good into the Z-Lux. And the Plimsoul puts it over the top. One of my favorite tones.
I'm still on the fence with the drive tones out of the HX Effects. I am very close to being happy and I might use the Timmy model tonight; it sounds quite nice, especially with the deluxe compressor in front of it. I think I want to play with an EQ and the drives. I just haven't had the time to work with it enough yet, but there is lots of promise here. I am getting a very nice wah sound now too.
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