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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 24, 2019 9:37:22 GMT -7
I have always played my Wreck with a Dr. Z convertible cab and a 12" Gold. I love how it sounds. But I am curious how it sounds with a Gold and a Blue. For those who have tried both, can you tell me if there is any real noticeable difference and if so, what is that difference?
If volume and cab weight were not an issue, would you prefer the Blue/Gold over just a single Gold?
There is a side discussion on the possibility of running two separate cabinets, which I think has been answered. The main question is:
Is there is any real noticeable difference between the Wreck with just a Gold and one with a Blue and Gold?
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Feb 24, 2019 10:18:27 GMT -7
I've never tried the 12" Gold but I do have the Blue and Gold cab - it sounds amazing. Loud, but amazing!
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 24, 2019 10:29:14 GMT -7
I have two Dr. Z 1x12 cabs. If I put a blue in the other one, could I run them together without hurting the lower watt Blue? Of course, I would match the impedance. I would think it is the same thing as running the speakers in the same cabinet, but I confess I don't if it is!
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Feb 24, 2019 11:12:44 GMT -7
I like it better with just the C Gold in the combo version. But to be fair I've only gigged with the Gold alone. Never tried the Gold + Blue together onstage.
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 24, 2019 11:18:41 GMT -7
I like it better with just the C Gold in the combo version. But to be fair I've only gigged with the Gold alone. Never tried the Gold + Blue together onstage. Dave, what do you like better about it? The volume, the weight! the tone, less coverage so it doesn't mess with the other players on stage?
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Feb 24, 2019 11:43:23 GMT -7
I have two Dr. Z 1x12 cabs. If I put a blue in the other one, could I run them together without hurting the lower watt Blue? Of course, I would match the impedance. I would think it is the same thing as running the speakers in the same cabinet, but I confess I don't if it is! You could and all would likely be fine. But, the Z-Wreck cab is wired in series for 16 ohms with the gold getting the signal first to protect the Blue a bit, according to Doc. You would be running in parallel likely at 4 ohms. Since the Blue is rated at 15 ohms, and the Wreck at 30, you should be fine. You could get one of Todd's Happy Cabs, use the series side, find out which speaker out gets the signal first, but the gold there and the blue in the other one, open the backs of both and you should be darn close. The open Z-Wreck cab will sound a little different than the two open 112 cabs, but again, darn close.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Feb 24, 2019 11:54:16 GMT -7
I like it better with just the C Gold in the combo version. But to be fair I've only gigged with the Gold alone. Never tried the Gold + Blue together onstage. Dave, what do you like better about it? The volume, the weight! the tone, less coverage so it doesn't mess with the other players on stage? Well, the weight for sure but to me the tone is also purer with just the Gold. If I were in a ZZ Top style power trio I'd go with both but in a Big Band (and the Praise Team too) I don't need the extra coverage. Just the Z-Wreck combo alone is plenty sufficient.
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 24, 2019 11:56:45 GMT -7
I have two Dr. Z 1x12 cabs. If I put a blue in the other one, could I run them together without hurting the lower watt Blue? Of course, I would match the impedance. I would think it is the same thing as running the speakers in the same cabinet, but I confess I don't if it is! You could and all would likely be fine. But, the Z-Wreck cab is wired in series for 16 ohms with the gold getting the signal first to protect the Blue a bit, according to Doc. You would be running in parallel likely at 4 ohms. Since the Blue is rated at 15 ohms, and the Wreck at 30, you should be fine. You could get one of Todd's Happy Cabs, use the series side, find out which speaker out gets the signal first, but the gold there and the blue in the other one, open the backs of both and you should be darn close. The open Z-Wreck cab will sound a little different than the two open 112 cabs, but again, darn close. Marc, I have something like that that my local guitar shop guy wired up for me. I'm curious how the series wiring protects the blue more than parallel wiring?
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Feb 24, 2019 13:43:00 GMT -7
Speaker stuff beyond me. As I remember Doc explaining it, the gold gets the signal a split second before the blue so it eats up some of the signal before the blue gets it. I don't understand it more than that. I think there may have been something about smoothing out the sound as compared to parallel. The blue is under speced at 15 watts, so I wouldn't worry about it in parallel. It works fine in the Maz putting out 18 watts.
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Post by KeithA on Feb 24, 2019 13:52:35 GMT -7
IIRC, even in series the speakers share the load (as long as both the Blue & Gold are the same impedance). So, with the Z-Wreck at 30 watts, the Blue is still seeing about 15 watts. Being slightly underrated at 15 watts, the Blue should be fine. As well, I'm sure the notion of the 50-watt Gold in front of the Blue creates a little buffer as alluded to by Doc above.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Feb 24, 2019 14:37:26 GMT -7
In series the speakers are “daisy chained” so the signal hits the first speaker in the chain then passes to the 2nd speaker. So, yes, the 2nd speaker sees the signal a bit later than the first. How much later? Well, an electric signal moving down a 12 ga copper wire moves at about 96% or so of the speed of light - or about 174,000 miles per second. So with a wire length of anywhere from, say, 6” to 36” (depending on if the 2 speakers are in a 2x12 cab or 2 separate 1x12 cabs), the time difference is pretty much insignificant. Wired in parallel the speakers see the signal at the same time because they are each wired directly to the amp’s output.
The conventional wisdom is that with 2 different powered speakers being used you double the wattage of the lower powered speaker. So in this case you double the Blue for a total of 30 watts. So I don’t think you’d have anything to worry about with a 30w Z Wreck. Sure, with the Wreck dimed across the board, and humbuckers going through a tube screamer you’d probably get a little more than 30w, I think the speakers should handle it because, as mentioned earlier, the Blue is rated conservatively (and how often will you have the Wreck dimed like that?).
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Post by Righty on Feb 24, 2019 15:44:29 GMT -7
Well this solves nothing but if you feel like you'd like to hear it through a Z 2x12 w/blues than you're welcome hook up to mine. I mostly use a 1x12 shorty cab with Weber Silver Bell derivative built for a Top Hat combo of some type. Most of the time I don't need a bigger cab. I could pair the shorty with a 2x10 convertible cab or take the 2x12 if necessary. I've been thinking for a while that a 1x12 convertible cab w/gold would be absolutely perfect. The shorty cab is just so convenient... and it's cute!
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Feb 24, 2019 17:53:48 GMT -7
If the speakers are of equal impedance, they will each draw the same amount of current across their voice coils. It will be evenly split, and it doesn't matter if one has the ability to handle more current because it will not draw any more current than the other speaker. As long as the speakers are of equal impedance it doesn't matter which speaker see the signal "first." The signal is an AC voltage which is constantly moving from (+) to (-) polarity. As the positive waveform hits the speakers, they move in one direction. As the negative half of the waveform hits, they move in the opposite. The amount of current each one takes will be determined by its impedance. This is determined by Ohm's and Kirchoff's laws. It makes no difference which way they are wired, assuming equal impedance in each speaker's voice coil. With equal impedance, if you have two speakers connected together you multiply the smaller of the two speaker's power handling capacity by two and that's your power handling capacity.
In our particular case the Blue is rated at 15 watts, the Gold at 50. The cabinet capacity will be 30 watts whether it's wired in series or parallel. The speakers just have to have the same impedance.
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 24, 2019 18:46:19 GMT -7
Thanks for all that about the speakers and cabs. I may just buy a used Blue, slap it in one of my 1x12 Z cabs and pair it my Gold in another Z can and see what the difference it.
I am still curious what those of you who have played through both (a Wreck with just a Gold and one with a Gold and Blue) think about the difference between the two.
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Post by bryan0418 on Feb 24, 2019 19:21:09 GMT -7
I have the Z Wreck Blue/Gold silver 2x12 cab and a 1x12 with a Gold. I can say that the 2x12 does sound a bit bigger. It would be hard to capture this on a recording since you are usually close micing a speaker. When you are in the room with the 2 cabinets, the 2x12 sounds larger and fuller. Don't get my wrong, the 1x12 with a Gold sounds really good. The 2x12 just adds another dimension into the sound. Both are great choices. I bring my Z Wreck head with the 1x12 when I don't feel like carrying the big 2x12. Usually for outdoor shows I use the 2x12 and for indoor shows the 1x12.
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 24, 2019 19:29:00 GMT -7
I have the Z Wreck Blue/Gold silver 2x12 cab and a 1x12 with a Gold. I can say that the 2x12 does sound a bit bigger. It would be hard to capture this on a recording since you are usually close micing a speaker. When you are in the room with the 2 cabinets, the 2x12 sounds larger and fuller. Don't get my wrong, the 1x12 with a Gold sounds really good. The 2x12 just adds another dimension into the sound. Both are great choices. I bring my Z Wreck head with the 1x12 when I don't feel like carrying the big 2x12. Usually for outdoor shows I use the 2x12 and for indoor shows the 1x12. So you would say it sounds bigger, but the tone is similar? When you gig just the Gold, do you feel like your missing anything substantial in your tone?
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 25, 2019 20:48:59 GMT -7
I ran across the AMA Dr. Z did on why he chose the cabinet and speakers he did for the Wreck. That was interesting and he explains the impact that series has vs parallel!
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 28, 2019 5:12:11 GMT -7
I'm still interested in hearing what you guys who have played both think about the sonic difference between the two set ups is. Doc explained it to me in a message so I know that there is a difference. But I would love to hear your take on it.
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Post by Rockerfeller on Mar 2, 2019 7:38:05 GMT -7
Bump to keep this alive and hear from you guys!
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Post by bryan0418 on Mar 2, 2019 13:19:45 GMT -7
I have the Z Wreck Blue/Gold silver 2x12 cab and a 1x12 with a Gold. I can say that the 2x12 does sound a bit bigger. It would be hard to capture this on a recording since you are usually close micing a speaker. When you are in the room with the 2 cabinets, the 2x12 sounds larger and fuller. Don't get my wrong, the 1x12 with a Gold sounds really good. The 2x12 just adds another dimension into the sound. Both are great choices. I bring my Z Wreck head with the 1x12 when I don't feel like carrying the big 2x12. Usually for outdoor shows I use the 2x12 and for indoor shows the 1x12. So you would say it sounds bigger, but the tone is similar? When you gig just the Gold, do you feel like your missing anything substantial in your tone? You are correct. The tone and flavor is the same using the 2x12 vs 1x12. I don't feel like I am missing anything when I gig it with the 1x12. The 2x12 will fill the room a bit better. If I sold my 2x12 I would be totally fine with the 1x12.
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Post by 30W Jams on Apr 20, 2019 15:55:55 GMT -7
i'm actually more interested in what it would sound like if i traded my C Blue out for another C Gold in my Silver 2x12.
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Apr 21, 2019 13:40:44 GMT -7
Thanks for all that about the speakers and cabs. I may just buy a used Blue, slap it in one of my 1x12 Z cabs and pair it my Gold in another Z can and see what the difference it. Hey Rockerfeller! I’m in Highlands Ranch and I have 2x12 with a blue in it. Semi open oval back. Avatar but similar to the z wreck 2x12. . You’re welcome to try it out. Has a 16 Ohm blue and a 16 Ohm G12H30. Not sure what impedance your Gold is but could pop it in there with th blue if it’s 16 Ohm. Or could pull the blue and put it in your other 1x12. Selfishly, I’d love to hear a wreck. Never had the privilege. Have an M12 and an RXJR Head. Both fun. Awesome in stereo. Side note: I recently got to meet Gene. Sold him that Brown Sugar MIAB pedal a few weeks back. Great guy!
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