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Post by 2Cents on Nov 1, 2018 16:16:24 GMT -7
Oops, inadvertent thumbs-up!
Things you may or may not know about pairing speakers, whether they are 10’s, 12’s, or even 15's, if ya got the muscle.
Compatible Speaker Sensitivity Ratings, in dB’s, also known as the Speaker Pressure Level or SPL is an indispensable tool for matching speakers.
A 3-dB-change, up or down, in SPL is equal to a doubling or halving, respectively, the perceived loudness of a given speaker.
A 2-dB change is noticeable, and a 1-dB change is negligible or at least acceptable.
When comparing speakers, the closer the dB ratings are the more compatible they will be.
The goal is to get within or as close to that 1 dB difference as possible.
That ensures that one speaker does not overpower the other.
Another valuable tool is the speaker power rating, measured in watts. When two different speakers have identical power ratings, the formula for the combined power rating is to multiply it by 2.
Example A: 2 Dr. Z 10’s at 70-watt each = 2 x 70 = 140-watts total
Alternately, when pairing unequal speaker power ratings the formula is 2 x the lowest rated speaker.
Example B: A Dr. Z 10 at 70-watts and a Celestion Gold 10 at 40-watts = 2 x 40 = 80-watts total.
Using Example B, with the Z at a 97dB SPL and the Gold at 98dB SPL we have a compatible pair, with neither speaker over powering the other. In the meantime, the 40-watt Gold will break up sooner than the 70-watt Z 10.
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Post by GT Roger on Nov 4, 2018 10:03:50 GMT -7
I've been wanting to try that combination for a while. I just loaded up my Z 2x10 with a gold. I'm sure it's going to take a little while to break the new speaker, but I'm going to give it a run at band rehearsal this week with my EZG-50. I'll give an update, with my thoughts.
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Post by goodez on Nov 4, 2018 21:24:34 GMT -7
I've been wanting to try that combination for a while. I just loaded up my Z 2x10 with a gold. I'm sure it's going to take a little while to break the new speaker, but I'm going to give it a run at band rehearsal this week with my EZG-50. I'll give an update, with my thoughts. Should be a pretty satisfying upgrade. I found the two z10’s too dark with the Db4/z28. I was tossing around the idea of two 10” greenbacks or going that route of a single 10” gold to add some clarity/top end. I did find that a single 12” gold added clarity/top end but in the event of running in stereo the two 10” greenbacks might add some differentiation to the mix.
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Post by 2Cents on Nov 6, 2018 0:26:03 GMT -7
The 10” Greenbacks are 95 dB each and the 12” Gold is 100 dB. That is a significant difference in perceived volume. The only 10’s (I am aware of) that have a 100 dB SPL are the Eminence Ramrod and Ragin Cajun—I have both and like ‘em a lot—but that’s my ears, not yours. Updates are always welcome.
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Post by goodez on Nov 6, 2018 4:25:00 GMT -7
The 10” Greenbacks are 95 dB each and the 12” Gold is 100 dB. That is a significant difference in perceived volume. The only 10’s (I am aware of) that have a 100 dB SPL are the Eminence Ramrod and Ragin Cajun—I have both and like ‘em a lot—but that’s my ears, not yours. Updates are always welcome. Are you saying two 10” greenbacks would be a poor selection to pair with a single 12” gold in stereo? I was under the impression that having two of them might increase the overall “load/volume” if you will but maybe I’m mistaken. “Another valuable tool is the speaker power rating, measured in watts”. The alnico 12” gold comes in a 50watt variant and the greenback 10” comes in a 30 watt variant (30x2=60 watts). Idk how the -5dB difference would factor into the equation at that point with the gold being under by 10 Watts. I guess I’m not sure if the db’s playing a greater role in the perceived volume than the watts would. In which case it wouldn’t matter if you had 4 10” greenbacks as it would just give a fuller sound and not a louder sound? Sorry, if my understanding is way off but that’s why this thread is here 👍🏼
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Post by 2Cents on Nov 8, 2018 15:31:12 GMT -7
Well goodez, it looks like I failed to explain what I was trying to say clearly.
Yes, I am saying that two Greenback 10’s are a poor match with a 12”Gold. When you pair a 12” Gold at 100 dB, with two 10” greenbacks at 95 dB, the 12” Gold will sound significantly louder than the pair of 10” greenbacks. That is a 5 dB difference.
A 3 dB difference is equal to twice as loud, and an additional 2 dB’s is approaching twice as loud again. I call that a big mismatch in perceived volume.
I included speaker wattage formulas only as a reference for safe amp/speaker cab mating, in order to avoid blowing speakers.
What amp are you using? Multiply you amp power output by 1.5 (that is a safety factor). It will give you the max power that your speaker, or speakers, or speaker cab or speaker cabs, can safely absorb before destroying your speakers.
For example, if we suppose that you have a 66.67-watt amp, 66.67 x 1.5 = 100 watts max.
Using my formula for “unequal speaker power ratings”, from my original post, and your example with 2 Greenback 10’s in one cab at 60 watts total, and a single Gold 12 at 50 watts in another cab, you will be able to determine the max wattage that both of your speaker cabs together can take before the speakers fail.
That formula is—2 x the lowest wattage speaker cab. In your case, that is 2 x 50 watts = 100 watts. Therefore, you can rest assured that diming the volume on any amp, 66.67 watts, or less, will not fry any of your speakers.
Wrapping it all up—Your Gold 12 will be almost 4 times as loud as your Greenback 10’s, and you will need a 66.67-watt (or less) amp to mate with your 2 cabs.
In a 4 x 10 cab, using 4 Greenback 10’s, you will have 4 x 30 watts = a 120 watt cab. In that case, do not use an amp rated higher than 80 watts and your speakers will live happily ever after.
OK, I just noticed that you are using a 38/18-watt DB4 and a 22-watt Z-28. Neither amp is too powerful for any of your proposed speaker cab combinations. However, the 38-watt DB4 is 7-watts overpowered for the lone Gold 50-watt 12 (38 x 1.5 = 57 watts). It will be safe, just don’t dime the volume knob.
Decibels or dB’s are a measure of loudness. Watts or wattage is a measure of power.
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Post by goodez on Nov 8, 2018 18:16:25 GMT -7
Wow, thanks so much for clearing that up. I guess I’ll have to look at some alternatives for the 2x10 cab if I ever want to consider running it with the single 12” gold.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Nov 12, 2018 9:32:42 GMT -7
I've been wanting to try that combination for a while. I just loaded up my Z 2x10 with a gold. I'm sure it's going to take a little while to break the new speaker, but I'm going to give it a run at band rehearsal this week with my EZG-50. I'll give an update, with my thoughts. How did the pair work out? I'm curious how well the Gold matches to the Z-10 in output level.
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Post by GT Roger on Nov 13, 2018 7:55:01 GMT -7
Hey Dave. I couldn't tell any volume differences between the two speakers. Me and my bass player both thought it had a nice warm sound to it. He commented that he thought it was my best guitar tone to date, which means something since I always have a new experiment with my rig.
I need to put some hours on the gold to get it broke in good. I've got about 4 or 5 hours on it so far. I figure by January I'll have it nicely broke in. I'll provide an update then.
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Post by zpilot on Dec 6, 2018 20:05:08 GMT -7
I have a Weber 10F150T in my Princeton Reverb. I tried several speakers including a Ramrod, Copperhead, and Z-10. The Weber has more sparkle than any of them and is as loud as the Ramrod. A very American sounding speaker, if that is what you are looking for. I have the 50 watt version with light dope. I love the Z-10's in my JAZ but for a vintage Fender amp sound the Weber nails it.
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Post by Ridgeback on Dec 7, 2018 7:03:25 GMT -7
I've come up with some good pairings with mismatched sensitivity\db speakers in the past so I rarely let that get in the way of trying new combinations. Sometimes a 50\50 blend of two speakers isn't the best sounding to me and it's OK to let one of the two be the dominant tone with the second speaker adding its flavor in a more subtle way.
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Post by goodez on Dec 7, 2018 14:51:50 GMT -7
I've come up with some good pairings with mismatched sensitivity\db speakers in the past so I rarely let that get in the way of trying new combinations. Sometimes a 50\50 blend of two speakers isn't the best sounding to me and it's OK to let one of the two be the dominant tone with the second speaker adding its flavor in a more subtle way. I’ve read a few different reports of guys over on tgp claiming that they found the gold 10”/green 10” combination to sound the best in comparison to other combinations of the gold. Seems like a scary/expensive rabbit hole to start down though.
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Post by 2Cents on Dec 8, 2018 23:24:01 GMT -7
I've come up with some good pairings with mismatched sensitivity\db speakers in the past so I rarely let that get in the way of trying new combinations. Sometimes a 50\50 blend of two speakers isn't the best sounding to me and it's OK to let one of the two be the dominant tone with the second speaker adding its flavor in a more subtle way. I never imagined that this thread would ever create any kind of resistance or debate. It’s just technical info for Pete’s sake. To be sure, there is no ideal universal speaker pairing formula. A reference point is all that my speaker sensitivity/power rating info was meant to be. It comes free, no strings attached. Take it or leave it; use it or lose it. Follow your muse. Throw-out the rules and create your own. That is after all the heart-n-soul of artistic exploration. Speakers is speakers; ears is ears; opinions is opinions. Enjoy the journey!
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Post by Ridgeback on Dec 8, 2018 23:51:46 GMT -7
I believe you misinterpreted my post. It was not intended to represent resistance or debate. Thanks for providing some interesting and useful information.
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