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Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Jul 3, 2018 14:27:33 GMT -7
Well, the a/c went out at home and I had to sell me 18NR to pay for the condenser so I'm currently Z(less). It was a sad day for sure. Either way, my amazing wife has already said I can get a new Z the beginning of next year, so I've got a lot of time to research. The question I have is how loud, really, is the 38? The 18 was plenty loud but was tame enough to play at sub ear bleeding volumes at home, is this the case with the 38 or is it simply too much outside of a gig? I don't play out, just the occasional jam with friends, noodling after work and window shaking when the family is out.
I had a 40w Fender once and loved it but the amp had a big jump in volume from number to number, you know? I'll be posting a similar questionnaire in the general forum for alternative models but the 38 has always leaked my interest. Let me know!
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Post by jkramsey1991 on Jul 4, 2018 5:34:02 GMT -7
The maz sounds great at any volume in my opinion. However it is overkill it sounds like for your playing situation.
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Post by Maddog on Jul 4, 2018 6:55:51 GMT -7
My advice: Stick with the 18.
Tho I dearly loved the amp, I found my 38 too loud to get the 84's to overdrive to the extent I wanted at medium club volume w/o using an attenuator.... The 18 Junior is PERFECT!!!
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jul 4, 2018 8:33:07 GMT -7
Remember that amp wattage has a logarithmic relationship with dB. Doubling amp watts increases volume 3dB (the lowest increase the human ear can perceive). A 10x increase in wattage increases sound 10dB - doubling the volume. So a 50w amp is 2x as loud as a 5w amp.
There’s a lot (a LOT) more to perceived “loudness,” but this is the mathematical relationship.
The key to me is what you want to the amp to do - if you want to play squeaky clean (using pedals for all dirt) then more watts is better so you have lots of undistorted volume you can use at will.
The real issue arises when you want to have the amp provide distortion, especially power tube distortion. Driving a 50w to the verge of breakup or beyond is painfully loud compared to driving a 15w the same way.
So whether an 18w or 38w is “better” for you depends on how you’re going to use the amp. For me, my ideal setup is having one amp set clean to just a bit of “hair,” and a 2nd amp set up for pure drive. In this case, the first amp can be 20-40w or so - I’m using a Therapy for this. The 2nd amp needs to be lower power to allow me to drive it hard without tons of volume. I’ve used 5-15w for this, but currently use a Z28 (I know, that’s a lot more watts than ideal) but have a Brakelite to control the volume - and it sounds SO good distorted. 😁
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Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Jul 4, 2018 9:02:07 GMT -7
Remember that amp wattage has a logarithmic relationship with dB. Doubling amp watts increases volume 3dB (the lowest increase the human ear can perceive). A 10x increase in wattage increases sound 10dB - doubling the volume. So a 50w amp is 2x as loud as a 5w amp. There’s a lot (a LOT) more to perceived “loudness,” but this is the mathematical relationship. The key to me is what you want to the amp to do - if you want to play squeaky clean (using pedals for all dirt) then more watts is better so you have lots of undistorted volume you can use at will. The real issue arises when you want to have the amp provide distortion, especially power tube distortion. Driving a 50w to the verge of breakup or beyond is painfully loud compared to driving a 15w the same way. So whether an 18w or 38w is “better” for you depends on how you’re going to use the amp. For me, my ideal setup is having one amp set clean to just a bit of “hair,” and a 2nd amp set up for pure drive. In this case, the first amp can be 20-40w or so - I’m using a Therapy for this. The 2nd amp needs to be lower power to allow me to drive it hard without tons of volume. I’ve used 5-15w for this, but currently use a Z28 (I know, that’s a lot more watts than ideal) but have a Brakelite to control the volume - and it sounds SO good distorted. 😁 That's great info, I had no idea the relation, I assumed (like many I'm sure) double wattage=double volume. I'm the later with my amp set up, I much prefer an ultra clean amp and pedals I've got a small but wicked board) for dirt, though amp drive is always a nice change. Before the sale I was running my 18 clean and I had an Orange TT15 w/Mesa 1x12 that was set up dirty and run them either in stereo for a constant growl below the Z or switching for an additional drive. The clean headroom is what I loved the most about the 18 and the thought of the 38 having considerably more is super appealing; don't hang me but the idea of an amp that won't drive in any of the scenarios I play in sounds awesome.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jul 4, 2018 15:54:43 GMT -7
I’ve not played the Maz amps, but if you want a base clean tone, then I’m in the camp of buy as much clean/loud as you can so if/when you need it you have it. Just my $.02 and YMMV.
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Post by daveyk on Jul 5, 2018 8:42:59 GMT -7
I haven't played out for a few years now, but the 38 is still my #1. I'm a basement player now, but will hopefully be playing with a band within the year. I feel like both the 38 and 18 are overkill for home use, in my situation, but i have a brake lite i use with my 38 and always have it either 3 or 4 clicks on which makes the amp somewhat tame. Since the 38 is only 2-3 db louder than the 18, if you plug into the 38 using the low input, the loudness is going to be very similar to plugging into the high input of the 18. I only plug into the low input and can't believe how loud this amp is. If i didn't have a brake lite there is no way i would still be using it for home use.
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Post by mickey on Jul 8, 2018 9:54:28 GMT -7
Was your 18NR ever too loud for you? If not I'd suggest sticking with an 18. I have both, and the 38 is gloriously loud and clean if you want it to be, it also, IMO, has a bit more depth and authority than the 18, but really the 18 is ample, and arguably better for most situations. I love my 38 and used it on every gig for nearly 10 years until I got my 18 last October. Since then the 18 has been the one that gets the work, and I still sometimes use my Airbrake!
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Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Jul 8, 2018 12:55:16 GMT -7
Was your 18NR ever too loud for you? If not I'd suggest sticking with an 18. I have both, and the 38 is gloriously loud and clean if you want it to be, it also, IMO, has a bit more depth and authority than the 18, but really the 18 is ample, and arguably better for most situations. I love my 38 and used it on every gig for nearly 10 years until I got my 18 last October. Since then the 18 has been the one that gets the work, and I still sometimes use my Airbrake! No, never too loud,well the sound guy at church found the volume an issue when I first got it but he learned to balance and place it, I found the 18 quite controllable. The 38 is more than likely overkill for most situations I'd find myself in but the idea of the available headroom is appealing.
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Post by mickey on Jul 10, 2018 4:41:28 GMT -7
Just for info, I just A/B'd my 18 and 38, and on the same settings and through the same speaker the 18 had a bit more midrange and broke up more easily, and the 38 sounded a bit more open and cleaner. Predictable really. Also the 18 is ten years newer than the 38, so probably some design changes happened during that time which could also account for something.
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Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Jul 10, 2018 13:59:05 GMT -7
Just for info, I just A/B'd my 18 and 38, and on the same settings and through the same speaker the 18 had a bit more midrange and broke up more easily, and the 38 sounded a bit more open and cleaner. Predictable really. Also the 18 is ten years newer than the 38, so probably some design changes happened during that time which could also account for something. Thats good info. What were your settings?
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Post by mickey on Jul 11, 2018 5:12:01 GMT -7
Just for info, I just A/B'd my 18 and 38, and on the same settings and through the same speaker the 18 had a bit more midrange and broke up more easily, and the 38 sounded a bit more open and cleaner. Predictable really. Also the 18 is ten years newer than the 38, so probably some design changes happened during that time which could also account for something. Thats good info. What were your settings? This was at home, "clock face" settings were Master 9 - 10 o' clock, Cut 12, Bass Mid and Treble all at 10, Volume 2. Speaker was my single 12" Creamback M. Normally a bit loud for playing in the house, but no complaints so far.
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Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Jul 11, 2018 10:02:52 GMT -7
Thats good info. What were your settings? This was at home, "clock face" settings were Master 9 - 10 o' clock, Cut 12, Bass Mid and Treble all at 10, Volume 2. Speaker was my single 12" Creamback M. Normally a bit loud for playing in the house, but no complaints so far. Nice!
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Post by mickey on Jul 11, 2018 11:04:06 GMT -7
This was at home, "clock face" settings were Master 9 - 10 o' clock, Cut 12, Bass Mid and Treble all at 10, Volume 2. Speaker was my single 12" Creamback M. Normally a bit loud for playing in the house, but no complaints so far. Nice! Yep, sounds great....today I got a bit more interested in comparing the two amps, and actually the 38 is quite a lot cleaner at the same settings. With my 18, and humbuckers, the amp breaks up easily, with the 38 sounding definitely cleaner. This was with my PRS DGT; with a Strat the same happens but not as much breakup with the 18, still some hair to each note though. Even with the master above noon and the volume at around 9 o' clock there's still some breakup with the 'buckers through that 18. I'm interested as I've just installed new EL84's and a NOS Mullard GZ34. I swapped back to a Sovtek rectifier, sounded pretty much the same; put my old EL84's back in and again same ballpark. The new tubes are back in there now, and it sounds great, those guitars sing, though as I said the 18 not as big, clean or open sounding as the 38. Now I've probably confused you, sorry about that!
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Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Jul 11, 2018 17:22:12 GMT -7
Yep, sounds great....today I got a bit more interested in comparing the two amps, and actually the 38 is quite a lot cleaner at the same settings. With my 18, and humbuckers, the amp breaks up easily, with the 38 sounding definitely cleaner. This was with my PRS DGT; with a Strat the same happens but not as much breakup with the 18, still some hair to each note though. Even with the master above noon and the volume at around 9 o' clock there's still some breakup with the 'buckers through that 18. I'm interested as I've just installed new EL84's and a NOS Mullard GZ34. I swapped back to a Sovtek rectifier, sounded pretty much the same; put my old EL84's back in and again same ballpark. The new tubes are back in there now, and it sounds great, those guitars sing, though as I said the 18 not as big, clean or open sounding as the 38. Now I've probably confused you, sorry about that! Not at all, I followed right along, it just made me want to be in the room, haha!! The idea of all the swapping of tubes, guitars and amp comparison sounds like my kind off afternoon. You should have the camera rolling next time.
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Post by thatstatuemoved on Jul 26, 2018 8:57:08 GMT -7
I have had both the 18 and the 38. The 38 is my go to amp if and when I am gigging. I wanted more headroom than the 18 provided and I am talking about clean headroom. Just depends on what you are looking for. If you want breakup at lower volume, the 18 is the way to go. If you want more clean headroom, get the 38. I get my dirt with pedals, not the amp and that is why I still have my 38. Both great amps, but I have had my 38 for a long time and plan on keeping it a long time. If the 38 is too loud, you can use the lo input jack and this puts the amp in the ballpark of the 18. I would rather have too much headroom than not enough, but that is just my way of thinking.
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Post by DeanG on Aug 8, 2018 7:10:31 GMT -7
The above MAZ 18 & 38 compares are right on. On a Church stage experience, cleaner can be better (reason why replaced the MAZ 18 with the MAZ 38).
I am more of a Guitar Tech than player. Here is my Son playing lead at closing. D'Angelico Excel Series DC Semi-Hollow into a 2014 MAZ 38 NR with Gold Speaker, set up with:
V1 - NOS Brimar CV4004/ECC83/12AX7 V2 - NOS JAN GE 12AX7WA V3 - PI Sovtek 12AX7 LPS NOS Reflektor 6n14n Russian EL84 NOS JAN Philips/Sylvania 5AR4 (Mislabeled 5V4GA)
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Aug 8, 2018 8:04:10 GMT -7
Late to the party here, but here is what I just did for my situation. We disbanded as a band one year ago, so I was a church player and basement player. Church had no sound support for guitar. I used the Antidote for church with brakelite on two to three clicks. Maz18 or Ghia in basement. We just left Chicago and moved to Colorado, so church is gone. I traded my Maz18 and an extra Z cab with cash for a Z-Plus. My tinnitus is concerning. I had the Z-plus shipped to sisters house where we are staying until ours is ready. The Z-Plus in my limited use is sweeter than all-get-out at minimal volume. My ears like this. If I want hair on the notes 7 watts allows me to dial that in at still minimal volume. At Chicago Music Exchange where I purchased the amp, I opened it up and know that it has more than enough clean and or hair on full power for most gigs. What I'm saying is the Z-Plus is one sweet versatile amp that will cover most of my needs. I kept the Antidote and Ghia head for larger gigs. This Z-Plus is something special. I'll miss my Maz18 and I think I would have chosen to sell the Ghia instead, but money and weight were contributing factors in that trade in decision.
Give the Z-Plus some consideration as you make your decision for your next Z. It is a winner fo me.
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Post by John on Aug 19, 2018 12:20:53 GMT -7
I'm even later to the party.
At Z-fest, BW went down the line, playing through many Z amps. Some new production models, some older tried and true models, some on the cusp of going into production. One of the amps was the Maz 38...and I was shocked at how loud it was.
If you play at home and occasional jams....stick with the 18.
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Post by mickey on Aug 21, 2018 8:34:29 GMT -7
As I've stated before, I tend to use my Maz 18 these days, after 10 years with the 38. But, I plugged into that 38 today and I have to say that amp sounds so good. Yes it's too loud for many applications without an Airbrake, but it was fun to try it again!
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