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Post by daveyk on May 29, 2018 12:30:46 GMT -7
How about a Stangray with half power switch and a voicing switch to get it into M12 territory?!!
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Post by limenine on Jun 2, 2018 15:39:11 GMT -7
I've mentioned this before, but I think a big reason lower wattage amps are tougher to sell is that they cost very nearly as much to manufacture as their bigger brothers. People feel like they are getting less for their money, as if "dollars per watt" was as simple as grocery shopping. I suspect that Doc actually has a smaller profit margin on the lower wattage amps - and then when they sell in smaller numbers too, well...
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Post by sneakypete on Jun 4, 2018 9:53:51 GMT -7
I've mentioned this before, but I think a big reason lower wattage amps are tougher to sell is that they cost very nearly as much to manufacture as their bigger brothers. People feel like they are getting less for their money, as if "dollars per watt" was as simple as grocery shopping. I suspect that Doc actually has a smaller profit margin on the lower wattage amps - and then when they sell in smaller numbers too, well... I agree on all counts. Most buyers make some $/watt calculation, and it scares them away from the best sounding amps in the world. My M12 and 15 watt Fender Pro Jr. sound better to me than my 50 watt Mesa/Boogie for any clean tone. Most players who try them will find these small wattage amps get plenty loud, but the $/watt calculation scares them away.
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Post by bmikejames on Aug 11, 2018 21:22:57 GMT -7
So glad I have an M12. Perfect grab and go. 10-inch combo. Wonderful with pedals. Tough as nails.
Sorry to see it go. MJ
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Sept 12, 2018 12:21:43 GMT -7
What is the Steve Miller mod? I love my M12 but could do with a little less of the mids. I love the mids now. The tube screamer is my foundation, but I like a little more clarity at times. It's a 5AR4 in place of the M12's typical 5Y3 rectifier. Which really beefs things up... so Doc tames it down with a pair of JJ EL844 power tubes, which are a reduced-output version of the EL84. So, basically, stiffer & cleaner but roughly the same output. I believe that in order to do this safely, though, something must be modded within the cathode-bias circuitry (not exactly plug-and-play with just tube swaps). This had come from Steve Miller's request to build a low-powered/low-volume StangRay. Doc then brought the actual modified M12 amps he built for Steve--1x10 and 1x12 combos (how cool is that???) to Mike's house for Mini-MI Z-Fest that year. We all compared the "Steve Miller Mod" M12 versus my standard M12 and versus StingRay #001 and found the big-daddy 'Ray to still have the biggest & most authoritative bottom-end. However, the "Steve Miller" M12's were a pretty close approximation that more or less achieved what Steve wanted.
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Post by wkylef on Sept 17, 2018 11:40:48 GMT -7
Like has been said before, if the M12 was not profitable enough for Dr. Z, then I totally understand not making them anymore. We all would do the same thing if it was our business. However, I have an M12 and love it like many of you do. I recently got a used Maz 8 which was also discontinued and I love it too. The lower wattage amps work great for my applications. I may worry about buying discontinued amps from some other manufacturers, but I believe Dr. Z will continue offering support for these amps if needed like answering questions and even repairs if needed. The great sound is part of the reason I have two Dr. Z amps and the fact that it is a great company that stands behind their products is the other.
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Post by DeanG on Sept 30, 2018 20:48:35 GMT -7
DRZ Jul 25, 2015 at 6:56am DRZ said: I received a request/order for two M-12's from Steve Miller. Steve needed a rig for a NYC project at Lincoln Center. Steve loves his StangRay sets ( 8 years and counting on the road ) and wanted a lower powered SR , same drive and punch but way less wattage/volume. So I modded a standard M-12 it came out great, here's what I did. 1) Install a Chinese 5AR4 rectifier. 2) Rebias by replacing 180 Ohm 10 watt bias resistor with a 150 Ohm 10 watt resistor. 3) Replace JJ EL-84's with Low wattage JJ-EL-844 ( request Medium Range Matched set ). There you go, a nice tonal upgrade and the EL-844's bring the volume down but the 5AR4 brings the tone and drive up. You can leave the JJ-EL-84's in place and have a M-20 then, I would swap out the EH-EL -84's if they came stock . Amps with EH's were built during the JJ tube rattle fiasco. To help replicate the StangRays overall sound, I built Steve a 1X10 Combo loaded with a Celestion 10" Gold, and a 1X12 combo loaded with a 12" Gold. DR.Z Read more: ztalk.proboards.com/thread/68366/upgrades-stock-12?page=3#ixzz5SeDtUvtb
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Post by humbucker427 on Oct 22, 2018 5:21:14 GMT -7
I'd also like to think that Humbucker probably could've pushed/marketed the M12 a little harder, too--especially if it was their request from Doc. I mean, I like the guys @ Humbucker, I'm a long/loyal customer... I've got nothing against them at all, and will keep on buying from them. However, I just don't recall them really pushing "their" amp super hard. Hey Mark! I hope all is well with you these days. Reviving a bit of an older thread here. The M12 came out in 2012, so it's been a few years since it's release, but we actually did push this amp VERY hard for the first three years. We recommended it to practically every person that said they played pedals and we did quite well with it. We also featured it in print ads in Premier Guitar Magazine as well as several Facebook promotions in the early FB ad days. We even put together a very detailed FAQ / Review that helped us sell many of them here: Dr. Z M12 FAQI just ran a quick report that showed me we sold 168 M12's over the years, and that's not too shabby. As a comparison, we sold 204 Carmen Ghia's and 112 Remedy's in the same time period. For us the M12 was a great success, but I totally understand that practically every amp has a lifespan. There are some exceptions, such as the Ghia. What a phenomenal amp! But even the venerable Maz dropped off until Dr. Z came out with the MK II versions. Still, the truth is, and I say this with the utmost sincerity, the M12 is one of the all time greats. As far as doing what it was designed to do, nothing compared with it. Those that own M12's should hang on to them. They're quite impressive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 6:08:01 GMT -7
Thanks for your post Jake! I got mine from your shop (in Red!) and it IS a fine amp indeed. Part of a collection that will stay with me forever. Cheers!
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Oct 22, 2018 7:28:09 GMT -7
I just ran a quick report that showed me we sold 168 M12's over the years, and that's not too shabby. As a comparison, we sold 204 Carmen Ghia's and 112 Remedy's in the same time period. Wow! Would not have guessed the M12 being within the ballpark(ish) of Ghia sales. ...the M12 is one of the all time greats. As far as doing what it was designed to do, nothing compared with it. Those that own M12's should hang on to them. They're quite impressive. Agreed. I still have mine, and cannot find any reason NOT to keep hanging onto it. With the constant influx of "latest & greatest" amps on the market all the time now, it's understanding for any amp to get lost in the crowd. But again, great amp, very controllable & usable, and a keeper.
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