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Post by sneakypete on May 13, 2018 13:26:20 GMT -7
I just ordered a used M12 and am eagarly awaiting its arrival. Why was this amp discontinued? Is it destined to become a sought after pedal-platform classic?
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 14:28:42 GMT -7
Not enough sales to justify continued production. But yes--it's a great amp. I really liked mine.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on May 13, 2018 14:33:07 GMT -7
IMO, it was probably (A) lost among a sea of other really good amps, and (B) misunderstood as a "low-volume pedal platform," which probably translated in most people's minds as "too quiet" and a "one trick pony with no character of its own." While (A) might be true, (B) is definitely not true.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on May 13, 2018 16:04:30 GMT -7
Having had the privilege of hearing the M12 with the Steve Miller mods, I think it will be incorporated tonally into the potential Stangray with 1/2 power switch rather than re-released on its own.
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on May 14, 2018 21:13:24 GMT -7
Having had the privilege of hearing the M12 with the Steve Miller mods, I think it will be incorporated tonally into the potential Stangray with 1/2 power switch rather than re-released on its own. I have all the components for the Steve Miller mod, but still not sure if I want to take the plunge. Really do love the M12 as is. It has a midrange fullness that the Stangray lacks (intentionally, that's not a knock). That being said, I was super excited to hear Doc talk about a revamped half power Stangray offering on the last AMA. RE: discontinuing....I think the M12 is easy to underestimate and misunderstand. Sound samples online have never impressed me much. But man, I just love the way it takes pedals and sits in the mix with a band.
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Post by lowbudget on May 15, 2018 6:58:16 GMT -7
I got a 1x10 combo from Humbucker a couple weeks back, and it seems like it was the last one they had left. Given the production date of 2/18 it may have been one of the last ones built, I don't know.
I feel lucky to have snagged it; not sure why I never got one before.
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Post by DRZ on May 15, 2018 8:04:31 GMT -7
I guess I should have promoted the M 12 more. A couple of adds and Social media blitz I bet would have helped sales. It is a great little amp and perfect as a pedal board amp.
Z
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on May 15, 2018 8:10:17 GMT -7
I guess I should have promoted the M 12 more. A couple of adds and Social media blitz I bet would have helped sales. It is a great little amp and perfect as a pedal board amp. Z No regrets, Doc. Can't control the market. Thankful to have my M12.
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jd0009
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Post by jd0009 on May 15, 2018 12:56:36 GMT -7
ME Too!
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 17:21:23 GMT -7
Half-power Stangray sounds mighty tempting.
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Post by fishyfishfish on May 16, 2018 14:04:45 GMT -7
I feel the amp was a little under the radar as well as having a some people not understand that a 12 watt amp @ 1:00 on the volume is better than a 100 watt amp barely turned on. Just an opinion of course...
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Post by detuned on May 16, 2018 16:36:43 GMT -7
I voted"typical discontinued amp", not because it's not great (because it IS great), but because I believe that the Doc will continue to distract, delight and amaze us with shiny new toys long enough for most of us to forget to remember it.
I love mine - the perfect size and volume for where I play and my rig, which is pedal-driven. Plenty loud, especially in a stereo setup. I have mine with a Swart AST right now, but now I'm thinking I should get another discontinued Z and pair it with that. Of course, that doesn't make the Doc any money, so maybe just a nice brand new Cure...
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on May 16, 2018 21:26:59 GMT -7
...but now I'm thinking I should get another discontinued Z and pair it with that. Of course, that doesn't make the Doc any money, so maybe just a nice brand new Cure... I run mine stereo with an RXJR. So good. Next step is to start doing a wet/dry with the RXJR punchy and direct, and all effects run through the M12.
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Post by sneakypete on May 17, 2018 19:04:53 GMT -7
My M12 combo just arrived. I set it up alongside my Mesa/Boogie DC-5 and Fender Pro Jr and three guitars and the M12 rules. The amazing M12 clean tone can be brought from a whisper to huge with remarkable range. It brings new definition to every pedal on my board. It also sounds great with my acoustic guitar. 1.5 hours in, and I'm definitely in love. More later, gotta go play more guitar.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 10:27:03 GMT -7
Congratulations Pete! And welcome to the forum...
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Post by sneakypete on May 18, 2018 10:36:49 GMT -7
Congratulations Pete! And welcome to the forum... Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here and I was particularly honored that Dr. Z himself weighed in on this thread. Please consider me a new patient. My aluminum neck Travis Bean and EGC guitars sound amazing through the M12.
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Post by sneakypete on May 21, 2018 16:16:57 GMT -7
Travis Bean + pedals + Dr Z M12 = amazing tone
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Post by thatstatuemoved on May 22, 2018 9:26:25 GMT -7
The M-12 is a fabulous amp. I have owned many of the DrZ amps through the years and the M-12 is one of the best IMO. I use a few pedals and they sound so good through this amp. Very simple layout, but there are a lot of tones to be had. Too bad it was discontinued, but I understand Doc's thinking. Really like it.
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on May 22, 2018 18:39:42 GMT -7
Travis Bean + pedals + Dr Z M12 = amazing tone"] How do you like the King of Tone through the M12? I’ve been on the waitlist for nearly 22 months. Hoping to put in an order this week
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Post by sneakypete on May 23, 2018 6:55:11 GMT -7
Travis Bean + pedals + Dr Z M12 = amazing tone"] How do you like the King of Tone through the M12? I’ve been on the waitlist for nearly 22 months. Hoping to put in an order this week I really like the King of Tone pedal. I have had mine for 5 years and it works well with every amp I've played it through and through the M12 it offers a nice range of cleans, crunchy cleans, and dirt tones. For the sounds I like, the KoT is far better than the modded TS-9 I had before it and the two channels give you great options when playing live. The wait list however is ridiculously long. Hang in there, I doubt you will be disappointed.
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Post by detuned on May 24, 2018 6:30:36 GMT -7
Heh. I've had two KoTs and ended up flipping them both. They're great, just not a fit for what I laughingly call my style. Based on this thread, though, I put myself back on the list. I'm in no hurry, and you never know, maybe third time's the charm.
Or I could end up flipping it again...
One thing I really appreciate about the M12 is that it really doesn't care what kind of pedal you feed it - analog, digital, it all sounds good. Plus when you get those tone knobs past 12 o'clock, the amp really starts to speak. Great design!
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Post by DRZ on May 24, 2018 7:42:36 GMT -7
One thing I really appreciate about the M12 is that it really doesn't care what kind of pedal you feed it - analog, digital, it all sounds good. Plus when you get those tone knobs past 12 o'clock, the amp really starts to speak. Great design! Then why were they not very popular and only sold very few after the initial release? Z
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 7:49:17 GMT -7
One thing I really appreciate about the M12 is that it really doesn't care what kind of pedal you feed it - analog, digital, it all sounds good. Plus when you get those tone knobs past 12 o'clock, the amp really starts to speak. Great design! They why were they not very popular and only sold very few after the initial release? Z I think it speaks to how good the rest of your line is at taking pedals. Plus, I'd look at the majority of the players on this forum, and players in the public realm that use your amps. I'm sure the pedal players are out there, but the vast majority of us are using the amp for 90% of our sound, and using pedals for slight tonal flavorings. Not for the backbone of our sound. I viewed pedal platform amps as sort of a "flavor of the week."
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Post by detuned on May 24, 2018 11:29:54 GMT -7
One thing I really appreciate about the M12 is that it really doesn't care what kind of pedal you feed it - analog, digital, it all sounds good. Plus when you get those tone knobs past 12 o'clock, the amp really starts to speak. Great design! Then why were they not very popular and only sold very few after the initial release? Z Because I'm smarter than everyone else! (If that's actually true, we're all in deep, deep trouble...) If I had to guess, based on the questions about the amp I read at the time of release, most people were not convinced they could gig with a 12 watt amp. 15 seems to be the cutoff for "real" gigging amps in most people's minds, unless you're Jim Campilongo, I guess... I dunno, if I knew what made an amp sell, I'd work for you, Doc, and you'd be bigger than Leo Fender... :-)
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Post by lowbudget on May 24, 2018 12:13:25 GMT -7
Then why were they not very popular and only sold very few after the initial release? Z If I had to guess, based on the questions about the amp I read at the time of release, most people were not convinced they could gig with a 12 watt amp. 15 seems to be the cutoff for "real" gigging amps in most people's minds, unless you're Jim Campilongo, I guess... I'm thinking this right here might have had a lot to do with it. Plus, the "pedal friendly" aspect might have been a little bit overplayed. The amp has a beautiful standalone tone on it's own merit. Not like it's a 12 watt JC120 or anything. And if you discount the Cure, which is a whole 'nuther story, I can't think of another Z that will literally go from bedroom to small (medium?) club with no need for attenuation. The volume sweep is just amazing!
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on May 26, 2018 12:29:32 GMT -7
Maybe 16 Watts would’ve been the magic number. M16 sounds like a savage amp! 👍🏻
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on May 28, 2018 17:05:30 GMT -7
One thing I really appreciate about the M12 is that it really doesn't care what kind of pedal you feed it - analog, digital, it all sounds good. Plus when you get those tone knobs past 12 o'clock, the amp really starts to speak. Great design! Then why were they not very popular and only sold very few after the initial release? Z
Cause people are stupid...
JUST like they were about the JAZ. The M12 is every bit as world class an amp as the Z Lux is...
best 12 watts (underrated 12 watts) and the only amp besides the Ghia n Rt 66 or Z Wreck I really feel I don't want reverb when I play it...
M12 is a great amp. Stock tubes NO mods.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on May 28, 2018 18:43:54 GMT -7
I'd also like to think that Humbucker probably could've pushed/marketed the M12 a little harder, too--especially if it was their request from Doc. I mean, I like the guys @ Humbucker, I'm a long/loyal customer... I've got nothing against them at all, and will keep on buying from them. However, I just don't recall them really pushing "their" amp super hard.
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Post by DRZ on May 28, 2018 18:46:40 GMT -7
I'd also like to think that Humbucker probably could've pushed/marketed the M12 a little harder, too--especially if it was their request from Doc. I mean, I like the guys @ Humbucker, I'm a long/loyal customer... I've got nothing against them at all, and will keep on buying from them. However, I just don't recall them really pushing "their" amp super hard. + 1000
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Post by bbutler356 on May 29, 2018 9:14:35 GMT -7
One thing I really appreciate about the M12 is that it really doesn't care what kind of pedal you feed it - analog, digital, it all sounds good. Plus when you get those tone knobs past 12 o'clock, the amp really starts to speak. Great design! Then why were they not very popular and only sold very few after the initial release? Z Mike, I would say that when it was mentioned that the amp was designed for pedal players, that probably drove away a very large percentage of otherwise-prospective buyers. It would have driven me away too probably, if I hadn't bought the amp first, before I ever read that. I love my M12. I don't use pedals at all through it.
An amp which is pigeon-holed like that might easily make one think that they there must be something about it that I wouldn't like, or else it wouldn't have been marketed so emphatically as a good pedal platform. (akin to the phenomenon of inadvertantly pigeon-holing an amp by naming it "JAZ").
P.S. I use an extension cab with it that has a Heritage G12H 55hz. And with the concrete bottom that gives it, it might be the best-sounding amp I've ever heard. It gives my Z-LUX a heck of a run for its money, anyway. And that's with no pedals through the M12.
I love your amps, Z. As I've said before, "Thanks for the memor-Zies".
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