|
Post by meanslide on Feb 19, 2018 19:00:13 GMT -7
10 years + playing a Ghia and I've switched over to the Z28. I owned one for a very short time once and always remembered how great it sounded straight in, playin' clean blues with it. Grabbed a head courtesy of bloozeman and I'm running it through a Z 1X12 with a WGS ET-65. I checked out the tube compliment it came with and it currently has a Tesla EF806, GE 5751, JJ 6V6's and a GT 5AR4. No complaints on the tone I'm getting now but I want to try out a couple of tubes that I pulled from an old 1958 Hammond M3 organ...a set of RCA 6V6GT's and a GE JG-5751. I also sprung for some NOS glass...a Mullard EF86 and a Sylvania (mislabeled) 5AR4 from KCANOS. I know I need to re-bias when changing the rectifier and/or power tubes, but can I swap out the EF86 and 5751 without any adjustments? Does anyone have any experience/thoughts on the RCA's in a Z28? How about the Mullard EF86? Thanks in advance for any insight!
|
|
|
Post by "Z" Steve on Feb 19, 2018 20:05:49 GMT -7
I think you nailed it re biasing the power tubes and rectifier. You are fine changing out the preamp tubes, and the newer 28's have 12ax7's instead of 5751's ( Doc said the good ones are getting too scarce to ship that way). I still have a few Dario EF86 tubes so I have not used a Mullard (yet). I bought some NOS Jan Phillips from KCA years ago but I got some tube rattle with them. I went with the new production Tungsol and have had great luck with them. Congratulations of a fine tone machine!
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 20, 2018 3:53:54 GMT -7
You are correct:
Power tubes and rec: rebias small tubes: pop in and play....no rebiasing needed. Just make sure you don't mix up the sockets...(unless you like sparks and possibly fire)
And I see you're using the 3-3-3 setting!
I would also think about a different speaker. The Z-28 is not a bright amp. No problem with the high end 'fizzies'. But the ET-65 has a big dust cover. This big dust cover helps curb the real high end fizzies on a lot of amps. But since this amp doesn't have that, there's no need for that big dust cover.
I would encourage you to try other speakers. When I had my Z-28, it came with a greenback. (and I too used a tele) It's a bit of a midrange speaker, and the Z-28 is a bit more of a midrange amp. I initially didn't care for the speaker, and I bought a G12H30. The reasoning was the H30 has recessed mids, but crispy high end and big bass. I though they would compliment each other. But after a few gigs, it seemed like too much bass. I couldn't turn the bass down because I needed it up to help with drive and tone. So I put the greenback back in and quickly realized it was the best speaker for me.
Put another way: You may want all the high end you can get with the Z-28, but the ET-65 attenuates some high end.
And I love that tele.
|
|
|
Post by Christopher on Feb 20, 2018 4:51:36 GMT -7
Congratulations on a great amp! NOS glass is always fun but I find for my ears current production power tubes really bring out the voice of the '28. Don't get me wrong, the vintage tubes do have a character and break up but there's more headroom and snap w new vs old. Preamp tubes are where the magic happens in the '28 and you've got some solid choices there. The 5751 is a good phase inverter but the 12AX7 brings the amp to life IMO. Speakers are like women, you know what you like so tweak accordingly. Like John said there's a bit of mid fullness to the '28 and certain speakers will augment or diminish that frequency. I bet it sounds awesome w that handsome Tele. I know mine sounds great w the Z best and Tele.
|
|
|
Post by meanslide on Feb 20, 2018 9:29:22 GMT -7
Thanks for the input guys. Interesting thoughts on the speaker choice. So far, I've really been digging the ET65. I've also got a G12H30, a V30, a Tone Tub Alnico, a Celestion Cream Alnico and some old Jensens (C12N, P12N) to try out. I'd consider picking up a GB too.
Tubes will be an ongoing thing, I'm sure. I'll pop in the NOS preamp tubes and see what changes.
Will the rectifier have any effect on the tone/sound/feel or is it that the NOS ones just have a longer life?
The old RCA 6V6's are just a curiosity. I've had them laying around forever. I don't think I want earlier breakup, I play clean most of the time, no effects, just guitar>cable>amp.
Edit:
I'm also picking up a Z 1x10 convertible cab today to use with the Z28. I've heard that EF86 amps are happier in a head cab but some people do seem to use theirs in a 1x10 set up. Any thoughts about trying it out as a combo?
|
|
|
Post by Christopher on Feb 20, 2018 14:16:31 GMT -7
First, each of us hears things differently so have at it w subs. I have owned two '28s and the first went from 1/12 to 1/10 back to 1/12. My second one has been 1/10 for me the whole time w the ZBest as a welcome addition when presence and throw are needed. If you want grab and go I'd say roll w the 1/10 format and then if you want more oomph add one of your cabs. The '28 sounds great both ways. I tried a NOS GE GZ34 and a mullard and went back to the old Chinese 5AR4 bc I felt the amp tracked tighter and that's what I wanted out of the amp. I have a 5Y3 rectified amp for times when I want crunch and no headroom. When I'm using the '28 I want headroom and a fat clean base tone to build on and the current production tube compliment does that for me.
|
|
|
Post by bigben55 on Feb 20, 2018 18:20:59 GMT -7
With my first Z28, i tried lots of different tubes. Its very sensitive to power tube changes. I liked the Tung Sol reissue 6V6s but they just didnt last. Huge tonal difference from the JJs to those. Ended up with NOS RCAs which were great but I don't think justified the cost in this amp(they totally do in others). EF86s are hit and miss. Bought an expensive NOS Tesla EF806 High Grade that went microphonic in 6 months
For this new to me 1x12, I'm running reissue Gold Lions, but when they get worn out, I'm sticking with what Doc recommends: -Shungaug 5AR4 -JJ 6V6S x2 -Tung Sol Ri 12AX7 -Winged C EF86
I had the Greenback, didn't like it(never have). Currently digging the WGS Reaper HP. Don't see me changing it.
|
|
|
Post by Ridgeback on Feb 20, 2018 18:54:00 GMT -7
Congratulations on the Z-28. I'm on my second one (also a blonde head). Never been much of a tube swapper so I don't have any advice on that front other than using the Doc's recommendations if you were starting from scratch. I have tried a number of speakers and cabs with this new head though. I posted a bit about the search in a Z-28 thread a while back. Since then, the only new test is running it through a closed back, ported 1x12 with a Weber 12A150-W (P12N). The jury is still out on that combination. I know I like the speaker but this particular cab is picky about which amps sound good through it. Good luck on your search.
|
|
|
Post by meanslide on Feb 21, 2018 0:13:42 GMT -7
I took the Z28 to the studio tonight to really put it through the paces. I played the Tele straight in for half the night. Then I hooked up a Zendrive. Gadzooks! I 'normally' don't use pedals but that might be changing...
More speaker shootouts to happen this week...
|
|
|
Post by TelePrankster on Feb 21, 2018 0:47:27 GMT -7
It takes dirt pedals very well. I use mine with a 10'' Gold or a WGS G12C/S.
|
|
|
Post by digs57 on Feb 25, 2018 8:55:09 GMT -7
What are trade offs with the z28 from ghia...still got a lot of "want" for one of these...just not sure will connect.
|
|
|
Post by Christopher on Feb 25, 2018 9:12:23 GMT -7
To me the Ghia has more top end chime and less booty. The '28 has more thump and is fatter sounding. Both are great and play well with each other. It's really what works best for you. One of each isn't a bad way to go.
|
|
|
Post by digs57 on Feb 25, 2018 10:53:53 GMT -7
To me the Ghia has more top end chime and less booty. The '28 has more thump and is fatter sounding. Both are great and play well with each other. It's really what works best for you. One of each isn't a bad way to go. I like the way you think christopher...one of each would be just fine with me...kind of my thoughts on this as well....from what I have read...never plugged/played z28...
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 25, 2018 14:40:18 GMT -7
What are trade offs with the z28 from ghia...still got a lot of "want" for one of these...just not sure will connect. I've had both. The 28 is definitely a darker amp. The ghia has a bright top end. So much so, that for some people, they'll need to use the guitar tone control (remember that thing you never touch?) and use it to curb the high end. (since there's not treble on the amp) The 28 definitely has a lower-mid push about it. Some like it, others don't. The ghia has a more 'plexi' upper mids push about it. Because of the ef86, the dynamics of the Z-28 are off the charts. (and the big bottle power tubes help too) I'm being real picky here, but I found the Z-28 a little too dark for my ear when playing home alone. But put it in a gig situation, it seemed like a different amp. Fantastic. Even though I don't think the ghia shares any circuitry with vintage 4 input marshalls, it definitely feels like it does. As you ride the volume up (either the knob on the amp, or the knob on the guitar) it seems to share a lot of the same overdrive DNA blooming characteristics as old marshalls. Definitely not as chimey as many other el84 amps. (like the maz jr)
|
|
|
Post by digs57 on Feb 25, 2018 15:54:38 GMT -7
I did find exactly that(ghia) had that marshall esk tone pushed w/the paul...sounds like the z28 might take some getting use to...I could see were in context/live its another story.
|
|
|
Post by Christopher on Feb 25, 2018 16:10:55 GMT -7
The '28 has a thicker tone and the amp breakup is a different color than the Ghia. But hit it with a boost, OD or your stomp of choice and Shazam you're cooking w gas. The best way to find out is nab one before they evaporate and let us know your thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by meanslide on Mar 5, 2018 20:36:25 GMT -7
Got to do a speaker shoot out with the Z28 this past week. Although I have a G12H30, V30, a couple of old Jensens, and a TT Alnico, I was really only interested in trying the Celestion Alnico Cream. I was putting it up against the WGS ET65, which I absolutely love with the Z28. I know it's got the large dust cap and that is supposed to tame some high end but I don't find that to be the case at all. Anyways, I was really surprised when I switched to the Cream...it seriously lacked the pleasing top end of the ET65. It was like having the proverbial blanket thrown over the amp. Not as stout sounding either. The shootout was fast and the ET65 stays put. Anyone need a Alnico Cream?
|
|
|
Post by digs57 on Mar 7, 2018 8:30:13 GMT -7
Interesting find...thanks for that...
|
|
|
Post by bloozeman on Mar 18, 2018 20:25:00 GMT -7
Have you tried an alnico tone tubby with it yet?
|
|
|
Post by meanslide on Mar 19, 2018 8:25:10 GMT -7
Have you tried an alnico tone tubby with it yet? No, but I have one to try. I'll get some time on it this week and report back...
|
|
|
Post by bloozeman on Mar 19, 2018 9:13:21 GMT -7
Have you tried an alnico tone tubby with it yet? No, but I have one to try. I'll get some time on it this week and report back... please do, Im curious to hear your thoughts, I have a Z28 combo coming this week and it has the stock greenback but I see gearman dude demos his online with a tone tubby and I like alnico speakers so would love to hear the thoughts on it
|
|
|
Post by meanslide on Mar 20, 2018 15:22:07 GMT -7
Just had a chance to hook up the Tone Tubby Alnico. Loaded in a Z 1X12. I have an ET65 in my ZLux combo so I was able to switch back and forth and hear the differences pretty well.
The TT is slightly quieter, has a little less bottom and a little more top end to it, and it's not quite as 'stout' sounding side by side. In fact, the Alnico speaker doesn't seem right to me with the Z28. And I really like the TT, I used one for years with a Ghia and it's magic. With the Z28, a ceramic magnet speaker feels/sounds better to my ears.
I noticed GMD has a ceramic Tone Tub in his 1X12 combo is those demos, btw. He shows the green frame speaker in the demo with a Les Paul.
The WGS ET65 is a great option for the Z28, give it a try!
|
|