aaron
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by aaron on Sept 4, 2017 19:59:03 GMT -7
My first post on here ever:
I play a Maz 38 SR in a church band.
The room seats less that 140 with a 25ft ceiling.
Problem: Sound man is having trouble balancing my amp mic'd through the pa because of the amp noise level from the stage.
We have been doing everything possible to reduce stage noise in order to give FOH sound engineer as much control as possible. (In Ears, Acoustic panels, Amps turned opposite of the audience)
Amp Settings: Brake lite attenuator set on 4, Amp volume noon, Master 8 o'clock
Still too much amp noise to get a good balance in the PA
Question: Has anyone used an isolation box with a mic'd Dr Z cab inside?
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Post by "Z" Steve on Sept 5, 2017 7:17:49 GMT -7
Welcome to the forum Aaron!
My 1st Z was the Maz38 1x12 combo. It was almost too loud for the gigs I did with my band, but it was way over powering for church - even with a plexiglass shield in front. I did buy a Brake Lite Attenuator so I could bring it down more, but it was still dialed in low with the master volume. Unless you use the amp in other venues where you can open it up I would consider the Maz 8 or a Cure (which I don't have). The 8 goes from 8 down to 5 watts, and depending on the speaker that it is paired with it will do the job just fine. I always use mine on the triode setting and it works perfectly. Go to those amp threads and do your research - you will find a Z that will work best for you in any setting!!
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Post by zpilot on Sept 11, 2017 10:37:07 GMT -7
Ditto to everything above. My MAZ Sr was a great amp but too much for virtually everywhere I played. If you are using that much speaker attenuation you aren't getting the real benefit of playing that amp. Also, by running the Master at 8 o'clock the power amp is barely breathing. If you want to continue using that amp in that situation you need to use a "silent cabinet". If you aren't familiar with what that is, it is a completely enclosed speaker with a microphone in it to send a signal to the mixer. almost none of the sound escapes the cabinet so what you hear will be what the sound engineer feeds you through your monitor wedge or IEM. The engineer will have TOTAL control of the levels. If you don't want to purchase a silent cabinet the same thing can be done by placing a mic'd speaker cabinet in a room or closet offstage using appropriate long cables. This is one of the cabinets available: www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SilentSisUnloadGranted,it is kind of pricey, but this is one of the better ones. You can find them cheaper. You could build one yourself if you have some skills. They are pretty simple. Using an offstage room would only cost the price of some cables. Here is another: www.mojotone.com/Cabinets_x/Cabinets_xx/Mojotone-1x12-Iso-Cabinet
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Post by BW on Sept 12, 2017 13:05:37 GMT -7
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Post by John on Sept 14, 2017 4:47:46 GMT -7
I played a gig (casino...not a church)...they MUCH preferred a modeling amp directly into the board. (with NO sound on stage) If you had a regular tube amp, they wanted you to set them up in the hallway behind the stage. (I fought that one too) Rhythm guitar player had to wrap his Boogie in a sleeping bag he happened to have in the car. A Maz Sr in a church band with a 140 person capacity? You may have the wrong amp for the job. Also consider an amp shield. Here's one...but they don't have to be so big, elaborate and expensive. (I made mine at home Depot for less than $20.) But it's probably more of a 'band-aid' than a real fix to your problem. (but who knows, it might be a solution) www.musiciansfriend.com/lifestyle/control-acoustics-vds2x4-combo-amp-sound-barrier-shield
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Post by Hohn on Sept 14, 2017 7:25:24 GMT -7
Are you talking stage NOISE level, or overall SOUND level?
NOISE is going to be pretty much a factor of gain and master setting, do what you can to minimize by using good tubes with clean power.
If it's just sound level, then one of the best ways is to drop down to inefficient speakers like 95db greenback. Because of the 3db/double power rule, a 38W amp with a 95db speaker is about the same as an 19W amp with a 98db speaker or a 9.5w amp with a 101db speaker.
I can tell you from firsthand experience that a cheap Chinese AC4 has no problem sticking with a loud drummer in a small practice space when it has a 101db Celestion Blue to help out. It still sounds like a cheap Chinese Box, I mean Vox, but it's certainly loud enough.
Changes in amp power really aren't as significant as we like to think. If you are using super efficient speakers, then the difference between a Maz 38 and a Maz 18 is almost so small as to be irrelevant. Both will be overpowered. You'd need a drastic power reduction like from 40W to 4W to really perceive a difference.
Keep in mind that speakers are rated at 1W/1m generally. 95db is NOT quiet. And 1W is not powerful. So if the speaker is pushing 100db with a single watt, you'll need something pretty drastic to get amp-tone distortion at small-church levels in the 85db range. The math says we're talking effective power output in the tenths to hundreths of a watt range.
That's why I think the best option for small spaces is to forgo amp distortion and get an amp that sounds good clean regardless of volume or power rating and use a good pedal.
Heck, an EZG50 is a great "small space" amp because it sounds good at everything from bedroom whisper to stadium-shaking levels.
Trying to match the amp's exact power rating to the venue is a recipe for frustration-- that logarithmic nature gets you every time.
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Post by John on Sept 14, 2017 7:59:06 GMT -7
If it's just sound level, then one of the best ways is to drop down to inefficient speakers like 95db greenback. But be careful...those 95db greenbacks are only rated at 20 watts. If you get into another situation where you're letting the Sr blast away at a MUCH louder volume....you could burn up the speaker.
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aaron
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by aaron on Oct 8, 2017 12:27:06 GMT -7
Big Maz 38 tone in a small church!
I built an isolation box with rockwool sound proof insulation on all sides, bottom, and lid. I lined up the inside with padded carpet and pyramid acoustic foam with mic and speaker jacks. The box is 2 1/2' square.
I bought a Dr Z 1x12 V30 Ext. Cab on reverb.com
Set up my amp tone through the 1x12 cab and then put it inside the isolation box, miked up and moved it to the side of the stage.
With a dB meter it is close to 18 dB noise reduction. Way easier to mike and mix through the house.
Been using this set up for the past three weeks and it's working great.
I've had my Maz 38 since 2008. Totally forgot how great this amp sounds by itself without pedals.
Thanks everybody for the advice!
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Post by fishman on Oct 18, 2017 8:24:49 GMT -7
MAZ 38, I have the "older" model, can cover just about anything. It can get close to just about any Z made. It can chime like an AC30, sound like a BF Fender, cover acoustic guitar, Steel Guitar, roar with the best marshall made, etc. Put a bass Speaker in it and its a bass amp. The MV works!...I have had alot of Z amps...IMHO the two best , and this is only my opinion, your milage may vary are the MAZ38NR and the Z-28. If You have those two you can cover anything out there...
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