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Post by purpletele on Jul 25, 2017 0:01:31 GMT -7
I have a cool 212 slant closed back cabinet by Stagecraft. I have never been able to get the cab to sound decent unless it's at a large volume.
I moved some speakers around and tried it last night and a single 112 cabinet with an open back sounds so much better than a 212 with a C Gold and GA SC64.
The cabinet sounds tinny.
I asked Peter Mather at the end of the day and he asked me if I had tried removing the stiffener post. I replied that I had not and would not imagine that would do anything significant.
We didn't get to extend that conversation, but maybe tomorrow.
I had originally asked Peter if he thought I should consider a convertible back, which I suspect will be the answer. Maybe just a 8 inch strip in the back.
Not sure, any input or ideas? Marshall guys, any stiffener post secrets?
Working on the photo hosting thing, so no photos tonight.
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Post by purpletele on Jul 25, 2017 17:46:44 GMT -7
I have a cool 212 slant closed back cabinet by Stagecraft. I have never been able to get the cab to sound decent unless it's at a large volume. I moved some speakers around and tried it last night and a single 112 cabinet with an open back sounds so much better than a 212 with a C Gold and GA SC64. The cabinet sounds tinny. I asked Peter Mather at the end of the day and he asked me if I had tried removing the stiffener post. I replied that I had not and would not imagine that would do anything significant. We didn't get to extend that conversation, but maybe tomorrow. I had originally asked Peter if he thought I should consider a convertible back, which I suspect will be the answer. Maybe just a 8 inch strip in the back. Not sure, any input or ideas? Marshall guys, any stiffener post secrets? Working on the photo hosting thing, so no photos tonight. John, Do you have any ideas or input on the Slant Cabinet? I always refer to your advice for speakers. BV
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2017 19:05:16 GMT -7
I can understand a closed back not sounding so great at a lower volume. One main reason is the closed back cabinet keeps the speakers from moving as much. As the cone moves out (into the room), it creates a vacuum inside the cabinet and this vacuum sucks on the cone, keeping it from moving out into the room as much as it should. Conversely, as the cone moves back into the cabinet, it builds up air pressure behind the speaker, and it keeps the cone from moving back into the cabinet. It's a subtle effect. Some people like this, some don't. And it really changes the tone. In an open back the cone moves freely, unhindered by the cabinet.
Although I've never played around with it, I've heard people don't like alnico (golds and blues) in closed back cabinets. I don't know anything about the eminence GA SC64.
And when you say a stiffener post.....do you mean the internal block of wood that keeps the back panel of the cabinet from caving in? I don't think that would do that much to change tone.
Is this cabinet the skinny vertical 2x12? Perhaps only 14 inches wide? Or is it a diagonal 2x12 and the width of a 4x12? The reason I ask, is I have a 1x12 closed back with a greenback. But the cabinet is very small...barely bigger than the speaker. It sounds a little thin and definitely doesn't have the girth and whomp of a 4x12.
I just looked up the GA SC64. Eminence says it's an "American voiced" speaker. Now granted, the definition of American VS UK voiced speakers is more than a little vague. That said....I never thought American voiced speakers were supposed to be in closed back cabinets. To a large degree....American speakers came in Fender amps...and that means open back combos.
My point is....even though there's TONS of room for interpretation, so called American voiced speakers would tend to lack some midrange. and that would NOT be good in a closed back cabinet. ...so maybe that's part of it.
(I dunno, I'm tired and babbling)
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Post by purpletele on Jul 25, 2017 19:56:27 GMT -7
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Post by wraparound (Steve) on Jul 25, 2017 20:41:19 GMT -7
It does make a difference. One could question how much, but I knew a very good guitar player here in Cleveland that years ago would take that post out of any 4x12 bottom he played through. Certainly there are speakers that are optimized for guitar by using an open back configuration but Fender cabinets were closed back with American speakers. I use both open and closed cabs, but I will say outside of Metal and Hard Rock revues, open back gets more play by most of today's players. I like the speed and accuracy of closed and the touch of open when at low to medium volumes. But the combination of everything including posts, screws (how tight), internal insulation or not, can be felt if not heard.
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Post by John on Jul 26, 2017 3:45:26 GMT -7
I am going to convert the amp into a single channel Deluxe Reverb and I want the tone to be Fendery, Then I wouldn't use a closed back cabinet. The 'Fender' tone comes from amp, speaker and cabinet. (not just the amp)
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Post by mrcapers on Sept 21, 2017 16:27:36 GMT -7
New to the forum and saw your pics. If the speakers are wired in parallel, they are almost certainly out of phase. Switch the leads on one speaker and see if that solves the problem.
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Post by zpilot on Sept 21, 2017 17:28:53 GMT -7
I see that too now that mrcaper pointed it out. The + terminal on my C-Golds are on the left. Are your's different?
Welcome to the forum mrcaper.
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Post by wubberdubber on Sept 21, 2017 17:30:20 GMT -7
I'll share this if it sheds any light...not a 2X12, but I do own an Avatar 2X10 with one Gold and one Greenback. It originally came as a closed back (bought it used) with those speakers. I was used to open back combos, and contacted Avatar about open-back panels, so they sent me a set. I've never gone back...the cab sounds way better to me as an open-back. It also is easier to hear on any stage. I've owned a few Marshall cabs in the past and my experience with the stiffener is that it does make the cab slightly snappier. I've also seen a few pros use a half-panel set up on back...essentially having one speaker reflect off the back and the other open (more like a 2/3 panel really).
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Post by purpletele on Sept 21, 2017 19:15:54 GMT -7
New to the forum and saw your pics. If the speakers are wired in parallel, they are almost certainly out of phase. Switch the leads on one speaker and see if that solves the problem. Good eye. That was the problem.
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