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Post by TelePrankster on May 30, 2017 8:10:11 GMT -7
I know... tons of threads about the same damn thing, but I can't decide although I've read most of the speaker threads in the Z-28 forum. I have a Carmen Ghia and a 1x10 cab with a Celestion Alnico Gold G10. This combination was suggested by many CG users and works very well for both cleans and dirt "british" tones. I don't know if it's a speaker designed for british voiced amps but it works great with my CG. Everything can be a little bit fizzy with some bright guitars at higher volumes because of the amp's gain characteristics and because the G10 is a bright speaker I guess, but rolling off the guitar's tone solved the problem for me. 50W are more than enough to keep things a little bit cleaner, which I like. I just got a Z-28 mostly because I wanted some of those Fender-ish "american" cleans but also better overdriven tones compared to the Fender amps I owned. This amp should breakup later than the CG so I'd use it more for cleans, at least for some applications. I need a single 12'' speaker that: - Works well with both CG and Z-28 for maximum versatility - Emphasize the Z-28 "american" character without unbalancing things (too much mids, highs etc.) - Can handle also my DV Mark Little Jazz (60W, solid state). Maybe at least 60W or more? I narrowed down the research to Celestion G12H-75 Creamback, Eminence Cannabis Rex, Eminence Red White and Blues, WGS G12C/S, maybe some Jensen-inspired Webers like 12F150, 12A150 or California? The Creamback seems a common choice, but I don't know if people referred to the 75W model. The G12C/S seems cool too, but not so popular among Z-28 users. Any help?
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Post by Ridgeback on May 30, 2017 8:30:58 GMT -7
I used to own both a CG and Z-28 but rarely used the same 1x12 with both as I wanted entirely different voicings from them.
The only speaker I have some experience with in both amps was the Gold. It was great with the CG but there was not much American character with the Z-28 even though it sounded quite nice. The Cali was the most transparent of the bunch and would be my best guess for a speaker that would let the character of both amps come through.
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Post by wraparound (Steve) on May 30, 2017 10:50:17 GMT -7
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Post by TelePrankster on May 31, 2017 0:09:29 GMT -7
Thanks for your suggestions. I'm thinking that since I already have a 10'' Gold which works well with both amps (way better with the CG), maybe it would be smarter to get an american voiced 12'' speaker for the Z-28 in order to emphasize its character instead of a neutral speaker. The 10'' Gold is a LOUD 50W speaker so it's a good overall speaker for gigging and recording, despite its size. I'll check the speakers you suggested but for now I like the WGS G12C/S very much with the Z-28.
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Post by ash on May 31, 2017 2:34:22 GMT -7
I dont own a z28 but based on ypur description I would recommend either a lil texas or a legend. I was just discussing these speakers on another thread. I have both these speakers.
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Post by j4gitr (John) on May 31, 2017 3:27:37 GMT -7
I would tend to agree, perhaps this will help if you haven't seen it already.
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Post by gfreak on May 31, 2017 20:42:10 GMT -7
I have different speakers for each amp, but I have yet to find a speaker I don't like with either of these amps(not that I have tried everything.) The 1x12 speaker I have that I love with both amps is the Red Fang.
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Post by Stephen on Jun 1, 2017 12:20:06 GMT -7
It shines with the V-30 in the Dr Z 1-12 cabinet.
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Post by TelePrankster on Jun 2, 2017 2:13:17 GMT -7
No experience with the WGS G12C/S?
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Post by southmusic70 on Jun 2, 2017 5:02:05 GMT -7
Not exactly answering your question but just for reference, I have a WGS G12 C/S in a 2x12 cabinet with a WGS ET65.
Although the 65 is more of a British sounding speaker, the G12 C/S is more American (think Jensen) to my ears and balances the ET65. I use this cabinet with my KT45; I suspect that the ET65 by itself would be too strident for my purposes, but if you are looking at a Fender sound, I would think the G12 C/S would be a candidate.
I suggest that you contact WGS, explain your situation and see what they think. They were very helpful when I was comparing speakers.
FYI, I grew up on, and still play occasionally, a '67 Vibrolux Reverb, so the Fender sound is deeply embedded in my ears and is sort of a reference point for me.
Also, my Z28 is a 1x10 combo with a Celestion Gold in it, and it seems to work fine.
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Post by TelePrankster on Jun 3, 2017 1:59:42 GMT -7
I tested the 10'' Gold myself and found it very good with the Z-28. Not the best speaker to emphasize its american character but still very rich and responsive. Since it's installed in a super compact and light custom cabinet which I use with my Carmen Ghia head, I'm happy to have a speaker that work well with both the Ghia and the Z-28.
I did some comparison between the Gold and the Jensen C10R (I used my PRRI as a cab) and I prefer the C10R with the Z-28, even if I find the speaker a little bit too bright and brittle. The G12C/S is a common speaker for DRRI users that want a more warm and balanced sound so I still think it would be a good choice. Plus, I think it would work well even with the Ghia which can be a very bright and fizzy amp. A common choice for Carmen Ghia users it's the Cannabis Rex which should be similar to the G12C/S but maybe less american sounding, if I remember correctly.
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Post by crimsonqueen on Jun 5, 2017 16:17:43 GMT -7
Like I told you on that other forum, most speakers I tried with it sound good. I currently favour the G12C/S. The ET-65 and Cannabis Rex sound good too. The C-Rex and G12C/S have a similar thing going. I did not like the amp with WGS Invader. Too British for that amp.
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Post by TelePrankster on Jun 5, 2017 22:24:43 GMT -7
Eventually I ordered a G12C/S. I'll keep you posted, thanks. EDIT: my new 1x12 cabinet with a G12C/S arrived last week. I didn't have the chance to test it at loud volumes but I spent a couple of hours with it during the last days. With the Z-28 set clean and tone controls flat (both on 9 o'clock), that classic Fender cleans are pretty much spot-on. Compared to the C10R, this speaker seems more balanced in all the frequencies, less brittle and less farty when the amp is pushed into overdrive. I don't know if it's just the new speaker and/or the bigger cabinet, but my Z-28 sounds HUGE compared to when it's plugged into my 1x10 Celestion Gold. Without touching the controls, I hear more volume, more air, more of everything. The only things that bothered me are: - It's darker than I thought. I don't hear any cut in the high frequencies or a "blanket over the amp" effect, just a completely different EQ, which is not a bad thing. It's definitely darker, softer, rounder, warmer. - Too much bass. I did some adjustments and eventually put the bass knob on 0, enough said. Bass frequencies remain tight and under control even at 12 o'clock or above, but bass is HUGE. Both this "issues" are more clear when the amp is played at low volumes or attenuated. Once you raise the volume everything seems to open up and sounds better. Bass is always huge, no matter what. I'll try to test the same speaker with my Carmen Ghia to see if I notice the same things.
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Post by crimsonqueen on Aug 27, 2017 8:30:03 GMT -7
I am not crazy about the G12C/S either in the end. The ET-65 has been my favorite speaker so far with the Z28.
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Post by wubberdubber on Aug 27, 2017 8:40:02 GMT -7
I tried a bunch of different speakers in my MAZ 18 combo (including the highly-touted Gold)...the WGS ET-65 is IT.
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Post by bigben55 on Nov 10, 2017 11:55:36 GMT -7
My Z28 1x12 combo has a Greenback in it. I like it clean, at the edge of breakup, but not cranked. I had a 2x10 Z28 years ago with Z blue label 10s and liked that crunch tone much better. The Greenback gets to woofy, especially with a neck humbucker. Like, 3-3-3 the amp an play a shuffle especially with some palm muting. It's way too loose in the lows.
What 12" is closest to the Z10s? The new Z 12? What Eminence is closest to the Z12?
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Post by mudman on Nov 10, 2017 16:06:17 GMT -7
Doesn’t eminence make the z12 for dr z?
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Post by bigben55 on Nov 10, 2017 16:11:24 GMT -7
Doesn’t eminence make the z12 for dr z? I'm pretty sure they do. I'm curious which current stock Eminence the Z12 is MOST like. I generally buy used speakers when I'm "tone searching" and don't expect to find a Z12 on Craigslist. But if it's similar to ie a Legend 1258 or RW&B, those I may be able to find.
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Post by bigben55 on Nov 12, 2017 14:08:50 GMT -7
Anyone have experience with either a Celestion G12H30 70th Anniversary or an Eminence Tinker in a 1x12 Z28 combo?
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Post by Christopher on Nov 13, 2017 9:39:30 GMT -7
My first'28 had the H30 anniversary twelve inside. I thought it was fairly neutral in coloring the amp tone compared to a Gold or a GreenBack.
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Post by bigben55 on Nov 13, 2017 12:31:58 GMT -7
My first'28 had the H30 anniversary twelve inside. I thought it was fairly neutral in coloring the amp tone compared to a Gold or a GreenBack. Was it louder than a greenback? Tighter bass? I figure it has to be cleaner, anything is.
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Post by mudman on Nov 13, 2017 12:51:40 GMT -7
Louder, more high end, fewer mjds than a greenback. Full bass but not loose
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Post by Christopher on Nov 13, 2017 12:59:10 GMT -7
Yes and yes. Tighter and punchier to my ears. I go to most manufacturer's sites and check out the DB rating on speakers. This helps determine their efficiency in the amp I'm pairing them with so I get what I'm expecting out of them. A GB is rated at @98db and the H30 Anni is @100db IIRC. That subtle difference in output loudness and the difference in magnet weight drives my choice for what I want in a speaker. I seem to remember the M standing for Medium magnet and H for Heavy magnet in Celestion speakers. The M will bottom out before the H will in most situations.
Example- the 10 Gold has an AlNiCo magnet, 98db efficiency and has a 40W handling capacity. The WGS C/S that is currently occupying my '28 1/10 is ceramic magnet, 98db efficiency and 75W handling capacity; allowing the ceramic to be driven harder before it colors the sound at the speaker itself. The breakup the Gold has when it's being hit hard gives a nice creamy top end but for my tastes it loses definition in a band setting. That's why I went with the WGS. It has more oomph and reminds me of the H30 1/12 '28 I used to own but has less of a marshall sound when pushed. I put the Gold in a 1/10 Gibson Skylark combo to replace the measly 5W AlNiCo that came in it originally. It works better in that circuit b/c it can eat the whole amp before it gives up the goods and allows the amp's voice to shine vs the speaker's voice to be the main timbre. I prefer ceramic speakers on the whole over AlNiCos b/c for my money they make an amp more efficient and louder without spending ridiculous amounts of scratch to get there. Have you seen the price for anyone's AlNiCo 12 inch speaker (Creamback $289, WGS 12A $229, Scumnico $239)? Even used most start at $200 which is enough to retube your Z, restring your guitar and enjoy a six pack while doing it with some change in your pocket.
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Post by bigben55 on Nov 13, 2017 18:34:34 GMT -7
Yep. I had a G12C/S in a 5E3 once, great speaker, very clean with great headroom. I look at specs too, but I've always been an "American speaker" guy. The Doc seems to favor Greenbacks and Creambacks in the Z28, so that speaks volumes to me. But I'm torn about the Greenback. I will use the amp mostly with pedals, and surprisingly the GB doesn't flub out with the amp loud and clean then hit with an OD pedal. But I also want to be able to skip the pedals and 333 the Z, and the GB can't take it IMO. It's well broken in to. I just want to try something in the British vein thats has more backbone.
I like alnicos sometimes, but generally buy ceramics. The alnicos in my Super Reverb are never coming out!
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Post by Christopher on Nov 13, 2017 20:51:49 GMT -7
I understand your inkling for the “F” style tone coming from your SR AlNiCos but it takes four of them to have the stones the single one twelve has especially if you’re using the Anni H30 or even the GBH75 (which I had in a Swart and it killed). FWIW I have a pair of UK GBs in my Germino that sing together and really compliment the amp. Your thoughts on the Doc’s choice of speakers for his creations is on point. Most of the Z-28s I’ve seen came w GB stock. My first had the anniversary 12H30 and it was my preferred speaker despite trying a 12 Gold and a neodymium, too. Do what floats your boat and have fun with it. As long as it sounds good to you, that’s all that matters.
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Post by bloozeman on Jun 30, 2018 8:02:53 GMT -7
I want to change out the g12m celestion in my z28. Would I be able to use a 20 watt speaker in the Z28? Im looking at this WGS G12Q wgsusa.com/g12qany opinions on how this would sound in the Z 28
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Post by Christopher on Jun 30, 2018 8:40:04 GMT -7
I want to change out the g12m celestion in my z28. Would I be able to use a 20 watt speaker in the Z28? Im looking at this WGS G12Q wgsusa.com/g12qany opinions on how this would sound in the Z 28 You can use a 20W speaker but you don't want to open the amp up fully or hit it hard w afuzz or square wave type tone (synth pedal or fuzz) as it may fry the coil in the speaker. A 30W would give you more room to crank it safely.
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Post by trojanhov on Dec 10, 2018 23:50:43 GMT -7
Hate to hijack this thread, but I want to keep the convo going on speakers. I currently have a cannabis rex in my 1x12 convertible cab. I really love how full a 12 sounds (was playing a 10 inch celestion gold for the last 2 years, which I still love), but this is the first 12 inch speaker i've ever tried with the z-28. While I enjoy the cannabis rex, i find my self wanting less bass and some more top end, especially with the Z-28. Wouldn't mind some scoop in the mids either. I play a suhr classic T and a gretsch and do everything from praise and worship to jazz/soul/rock. I need a versatile speaker that sounds great clean and driven (pedals or amp breakup)
What speaker am i describing here?
Research findings:
Celestion Greenback/WGS Green Beret - The doc's favorite speaker (he told me himself). Just worried about it being a bit too mid-heavy and breaking up a bit too soon. Celestion G12H30/WGS Reaper - Scooped in the mids, but might have too much bass Celestion Creamback/WGS Invader - pretty much a higher wattage greenback? WGS G12C/S - may be too similar to my cannabis rex.
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Post by bigben55 on Dec 11, 2018 6:00:15 GMT -7
I'm sorta looking too, and I concur with all your research. I'm looking at a few: Celestion alnico Creamback, Neo Creamback, Scumback H75-LD, Eminence GA64 allessandro. Research findings: Celestion Greenback/WGS Green Beret - The doc's favorite speaker (he told me himself). Just worried about it being a bit too mid-heavy and breaking up a bit too soon. Celestion G12H30/WGS Reaper - Scooped in the mids, but might have too much bass Celestion Creamback/WGS Invader - pretty much a higher wattage greenback? WGS G12C/S - may be too similar to my cannabis rex Read more: ztalk.proboards.com/thread/75958/1x12-speaker-help#ixzz5ZNbJfA6D
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Post by trojanhov on Dec 11, 2018 10:17:55 GMT -7
I'm sorta looking too, and I concur with all your research. I'm looking at a few: Celestion alnico Creamback, Neo Creamback, Scumback H75-LD, Eminence GA64 allessandro. Research findings: Celestion Greenback/WGS Green Beret - The doc's favorite speaker (he told me himself). Just worried about it being a bit too mid-heavy and breaking up a bit too soon. Celestion G12H30/WGS Reaper - Scooped in the mids, but might have too much bass Celestion Creamback/WGS Invader - pretty much a higher wattage greenback? WGS G12C/S - may be too similar to my cannabis rex Read more: ztalk.proboards.com/thread/75958/1x12-speaker-help#ixzz5ZNbJfA6DJust spoke with WGS and they recommend the following speakers: Green Beret Invader for more head room ET-65 for more high end sparkle and full bottom. When I told him I wanted a bit more high end he gushed about the Et65. Seems like I’ll pull the trigger on either an invader or Et65. Anyone with experience with both care to chime in?
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