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Post by Entropy on Dec 13, 2005 1:13:48 GMT -7
...first impression: "I just made a mistake."
Brand new from the dealer. Didn't have the chance to play or hear any Z's first, except for clips. Had decided to try a Z28, but the dealer (a trusted and great one, but unnamed) recommended the Maz 18 NR as a better feeling amp.
Ran it into a Two Rock 112 cab with an Emi Tonespotter. Ash / maple Strat w/Dimarzio VVs. No peds tried yet.
The amp is WAY too aggressive and in my face for my tastes. Plus I'm concerned it really won't be loud enough.
I'll try it with a stock Z 2x10 tomorrow.
Right now, I am BUMMING though.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 13, 2005 6:23:04 GMT -7
Keep the treble and cut way down, almost off. Keep the mid up, the mids make it project. These amps are deceptively loud. You don't how loud they are until the gig. You'll like the Z 2-x 10 better, I bet. If you want more clean you'll need a bigger amp.
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Post by squeallydan on Dec 13, 2005 9:05:31 GMT -7
I love mine with a Mesa 1x12 cab and with a 2x12 cab. I have retired my Rivera. I have played a lot of Christmas party gigs the last few weeks. Some have been in really large rooms and that amp is loud enough. I put a SM57 in front of it for some of the big rooms and it sounded great. I keep it clean and it sounds great & has more character and warmth in comparison to the clean sound of other amps I have used.
What kind of music are you wanting to play with it? I marveled Saturday night at how good it sounded. After a 3 hour gig, I didn't want to stop playing.
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RedWire75
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Post by RedWire75 on Dec 13, 2005 9:12:57 GMT -7
I am feeling the same way. Not really about the sound of the amp. It sounds amazing!! I don't mind the non-clean sound, it's right up my alley. But volume wise, I just can't hear it when I'm playing with the rest of the band. I don't get it either, the other guitar player is playing a Matchless Lightning 15 and 2x12 that's much louder than the Z. I'm running the Z-Best 2x12 with the Maz 18 Jr. head.
And to make matters worse, the dealer who I bought it from (a week ago) will not do an exchange for the Maz-38 they have because there is a small (and I mean SMALL) nick in the tolex on the head. I don't want to say the dealer name because I'm still waiting on an email asking them to work with me on the situation. If they won't I'm going to start shouting it from the rooftops.
So basically I've got a $2000 bedroom amp. Kind of sick to my stomach over the whole thing. Why can the 18 watt Z keep up with the 15 watt Matchless?
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 13, 2005 9:25:56 GMT -7
With the nick in the tolex I understand the dealer not wanting to give you full money on the upgrade. Ethically he has to say it's used, he can't really say it's "store wear". He should work with you on the thing though so don't hesitate to say who it is if he won't. We all want to know what dealers have bad post sale relations. It probably wouldn't be nicked if it had come with at least a vinyl cover, assuming you took it out and used it without a cover because you didn't have one yet. I don't see why it wouldn't keep up with the little Matchless. Did you crank up the mids? There's a lot of volume in that mid control. Keep the bass rather low so it wouldn't be bogged down trying to pump a lot of bass? Are the drummer and bass player playing too loud? Do your ears ring after the gig or rehearsal?
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RedWire75
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Posts: 37
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Post by RedWire75 on Dec 13, 2005 9:34:24 GMT -7
I've got the mids at 3:00.... Bass is the same, so that may not be helping. I'll try bringing it down to 12:00 or so when I get home. Maybe that will bring about a change. It doesn't seem to be drowned out by any one thing... more just a problem hearing it. It may be that the 2x12 is firing at my knees too, I'm looking for a flight case for the head anyway so maybe I can stack the amp and cab on top of that. I'm open to suggestions though.
I actually didn't see the nick on the tolex when I took it in, he found it. His suggestion was to buy a new head box from Dr. Z and he would see how much that would cost. I'm figuring $100 to $200 for that so it seems a little steep for the small nick. I'm figuring $75 and I think that feels fair. Maybe I'm being unreasonable. He actually said he's not supposed to take the amps back at all regardless of condition but there was no way he would do it with the nick.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 13, 2005 10:00:46 GMT -7
Closed back cabinets are definitely more directional than an open back combo so that may be part of the problem. You just may need the bigger amp. I have a Maz 38 1-12 combo. I always put an ashtray or something under it to angle it up.
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RedWire75
New Member
the underground is overcrowded
Posts: 37
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Post by RedWire75 on Dec 13, 2005 10:09:53 GMT -7
yeah, I may have to end up moving the Maz 18 on eBay or something and eating the difference if the dealer doesn't want to work with me on the exchange. Then I'll get the Maz-38. But I can't imagine that it's not loud enough. I may just have to get it up higher or get an amp stand to angle it upwards.
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Post by joekondziella on Dec 13, 2005 10:21:47 GMT -7
I have a MAZ18 head and I normally run a Tone tubby loaded Mesa 1-12 cab angled back in front of me. This way the soundman has contol over the house and I don't get b**ched at. I hate being told to turn down! I get all my tone and available desired feedback with headroom to spare.
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Post by kruzty on Dec 13, 2005 10:22:30 GMT -7
Can you trade the cabinet instead of the head? I have a 2x10 combo (so it is an open back) and I can't imagine not being able to keep up with the rest of the band. I can't get my master above 9 o'clock for most places we play. Closed backs are good for recording or mic'ing live, but I am sticking with open backs for live situations.
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Post by squeallydan on Dec 13, 2005 10:51:30 GMT -7
Like I said before, I have played lots of gigs over the past month in some big rooms, and have had enough volume. I don't have another guitarist in the band to battle with, but the drummer and bass player I play with are both loud players, & still no probs. I think if its not loud enough, the guys you are playing with might need to turn down a bit.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 13, 2005 11:55:38 GMT -7
To joekondziella: Back in about '79 I saw Joe Jackson play at a club here in Kansas City. His guitar player used a 2 x 12 Marshall combo tilted back right in front of him. Sounded great but he must have gone deaf soon! I played a real quiet gig a while back and layed my Evans amp completely on it's back facing up. That was kind of fun. I could really hear it and yet it didn't shoot out to the front. This was a restaurant gig and people were only 6' away. The Evans is solid state, you couldn't do that with a tube combo.
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Post by Entropy on Dec 13, 2005 12:05:52 GMT -7
One common playing situation for me is with another guitarist with a wet-dry rig and a recent tendency to wage volume war.
If I can come to terms with the amp itself, maybe the solution is just to avoid that particular playing situation.
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Post by squeallydan on Dec 13, 2005 12:18:54 GMT -7
I have been in that situation before. Be honest with the guy. Talk about what you guys can do together to play quieter. Make sure you aren't directly aiming at each other while practicing. I have seen that a lot, and the person across from you can always hear you more than you can.
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Post by joekondziella on Dec 13, 2005 13:09:41 GMT -7
To billyguitar: Yeah I play alot casino cabaret gigs where you're right over the bar. If you can keep the bartenders and servers happy you have a much better chance of of getting a return booking. Not to mention the guys running around with the db meters trying to keep from getting an OSHA citation. Sometmes I put up a clear plexiglass baffle(everyone else should be able to hear their own vocal monitor) Outside gigs in the summer I can crank it up behind me but I like to keep working all year round. It also helps if you can hear what everyone else is doing so you can play together as a band.
Did I mention I hate being told I'm too loud? LOL
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 13, 2005 15:20:31 GMT -7
A guitar player being told he's too loud? Unheard of! Never happened to me!
You know how to get a guitar player to turn down? Put sheet music in front of him!
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Post by countryshawn on Dec 13, 2005 17:20:53 GMT -7
One common playing situation for me is with another guitarist with a wet-dry rig and a recent tendency to wage volume war. If I can come to terms with the amp itself, maybe the solution is just to avoid that particular playing situation. That's a slippery slope that will only lead to poor mixes and tinitus. I'll go out on a limb here and say that you have enough amp to play in most situations. When I play with a band, I'm only running about half opened up with my MAZ-Jr. A bigger amp will likely just lead you down the road of worse mixes and another level of volume war. I've been there once or twice, and will never, ever, ever go back. When the mix isn't right, start with reducing things, not increasing. Volume makes the ears saturate and fatigue to the point where it's a total cacophony. I would suggest that you try angling the cabinet up, face it towards you, at a distance that you can clearly hear it - and as long as you can hear the drums, singer and bass - leave it at that. Then, politely ask the other player to turn down. Volume doesn't make better music. Better musicians make better music. FOH Volume is for the PA. Cheers, Shawn
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 13, 2005 19:29:01 GMT -7
Shawn, That's almost too rational for guitar player. Perfect response.
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Post by Entropy on Dec 13, 2005 19:29:37 GMT -7
I tried it again today with the 2x10 and a different guitar -- got much better results. Still 60/40 on letting it go, but I got much further along with it today than yesterday.
I took some of the dial-in suggestions (lower treble and cut) and that helped to.
On the volume war thing, I think I'll just manage to be busy when that playing situation comes up again.
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Post by Lefty on Dec 14, 2005 14:51:57 GMT -7
You know it's funny that volume has become such an issue. When I find myself in a playing situation that is just too damn loud, I begin to feel uncomfortable, less musical, more like the band is fighting each other with volume instead of playing together as one musical unit. I like to hear the nuances of the other instruments and vocals. I can't tell you how many times the band has drowned out the PA, and everything just sounds like SH!T.
God love the lower wattage amps!!
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Post by nickthestick on Dec 15, 2005 14:13:15 GMT -7
in my opinion an 18 watt amp is the perfect wattage to sit in the mix with a rockin band.....ive worked with sound guys who do huge concerts and they always say the best way to get a sound is to have a good natural stage mix......a mesa half stack can quiet a drummer pretty quickly....its useless stuff IMO......u want louder, get a 22 watt amp.....the only way i need more wattage is for more clean headroom.....but that also has to do with the voicing of the amp....for example....a kt45 has more headroom than a delta 88 because of the way it is voiced......volume is such a shady issue...alot of it also has to do with the players ability to control their instruments too.....touch is everyting
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Post by zekmoe on Dec 15, 2005 18:29:22 GMT -7
I actually bought the Maz18 and have a Matchless DC-30. The Maz is my smaller gig/jam amp, and I've been playing with it extensively. One, it's definitely got it's own sound, and the people here are right about the tone settings. Move the knobs to what visually would be incorrect. Way high bass and almost no treble. Funny, but that's how I set my JCM800 as well. I think it's plenty loud enough except for maybe an outside gig. If definitely feels and sounds different than my DC-30, which to me is my end all of amps. But as I worked with it, I found a different and more focused sound than I had. I have to say that with certain guitars, my PRS in particular, it sounds better than than the DC-30 and still different. For they guy who ripped the tolex, well, if I were the dealer AND it didn't get sold to you that way, no way would I take it back for a refund, even after an hour. People are too used to the walmart way, where you buy things , do what you want to them, and return them in any condition for a refund. Small dealers who do that are asking to go out of business. If it was like that when you bought it, then it was a condition of the sale and I'd say they should take it back. But if it were brand spankin new and now it's not...it's yours. I love having several amps and really think that you should be able to work with it. Play it a little more and really deal with the tone and cut more than other amps. You may grow to love it.
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RedWire75
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the underground is overcrowded
Posts: 37
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Post by RedWire75 on Dec 19, 2005 13:44:27 GMT -7
I was able to get the Z-Best and Maz-18 head off the ground some at the last practice and it worked like a charm. The cabinet was SO directional. I still think that the Maz-38 would have worked out better for the sound I'm looking for but I'm liking the Maz-18 right now too. So I bought an amp and cab case from Angstrom Cases on eBay and will be using the cab case as a stand.
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rgb
Full Member
Posts: 158
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Post by rgb on Dec 19, 2005 13:53:21 GMT -7
I would try a complete re-tube. For around $50-$75, you can replace all of the tubes with JJ's from Eurotube and then you'll have a set of spares. My Maz was gradually losing it's chime and volume...I was going to sell it actually...but I had the rectifier go bad and start blowing fuses, so I re-tubed the whole amp and the original tone was back...and then some! I really like the JJ's better than the Sovtek and Chinese valves that it shipped with.
Hope it works out for you!
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Post by garyh on Dec 19, 2005 21:04:27 GMT -7
I was disappointed when I first got my Maz 18. It was so trebly and aggressive. But I worked with it, tried the svetlana 12ax7s (I now use just one in V1 with the original JJ in V2 and the Sovtek PI. It makes a difference.) I now set my amp much like Buddy sets his 38 (See Question for BW in the General forum). It sounds awesome now and I set the bass back on 9 or 10:00 with a strat.....not trebbly or harsh at all.....pure bluesy tone. When I play jazz with my archtop, I set the master on ten and set the bass and mids back on 9:00.,,,,plenty of low end and not trebbly again.
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casey
New Member
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Post by casey on Dec 20, 2005 14:05:07 GMT -7
What kind of venues are you people playing where the Jr is not loud enough? I play music as my full-time job...play 5 gigs a week minimum...and the Jr with the 2x12 Z-Best cab is WAY loud enough for every gig. And that is everything from clubs to big sheds. But that is just my experience...and I don't doubt that you the 18 isn't loud enough for you....but to me it is a VERY loud amp...and MUCH more than a bedroom amp.
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Post by JChance on Dec 20, 2005 15:02:37 GMT -7
I'll second casey to a degree. In very few situations has my Jr. with 2 10's been less than what I needed.I've even used it on a few outdoor shows with no problem- and trust me...I'm loud on stage ;D
I recently even did an outdoor festival with (country artist) Mila Mason where the FOH guy actually told me I was loud enough out front that he could hear my amp on stage. Wasn't overbearing, and he still had me in the mix- but it was right on the cusp. Bear in mind that I always run my master wide open-
I bought my MAZ Sr 38 with 2 12's for the simple fact that, especially on larger stages with national acts, there's enough volume from everything else that I need that little bit of extra headroom.
But for probably 90% of the situatins I'm in, the Jr is enough. I even use it in un-mic'ed situations in the various clubs around Nashweird with no problems...
J
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Post by mazmaster on Jan 4, 2006 13:01:10 GMT -7
...first impression: "I just made a mistake." Brand new from the dealer. Didn't have the chance to play or hear any Z's first, except for clips. Had decided to try a Z28, but the dealer (a trusted and great one, but unnamed) recommended the Maz 18 NR as a better feeling amp. Ran it into a Two Rock 112 cab with an Emi Tonespotter. Ash / maple Strat w/Dimarzio VVs. No peds tried yet. The amp is WAY too aggressive and in my face for my tastes. Plus I'm concerned it really won't be loud enough. I'll try it with a stock Z 2x10 tomorrow. Right now, I am BUMMING though. Wow, I haven't had your experience at all. But, part of it could be that Two-Rock cab and speaker. Those are voiced for an entirely different style of amp. 1.) My Maz 18 Jr NR into my Jenkins Highway 61 w/ G12H-30s is the warmest, fattest amp in my collection. (See pic below.) I use Ei-ECC83 preamp tubes and a GT-EL84S #6 pair in the power amp. And, unlike what some have said about the Cut knob, I max it out! But, I do run the Treble around 10:00. Maxing out the Cut knob, running Mid around 1:30 and Volume around noon is the key to getting amazing tones with dirt pedals upfront, while also keeping the clean tones round and warm without too much breakup. Control brightness strictly with the Treble knob and your pedal's tone controls. 2.) As for loudness, my Maz 18 easily keeps up with everything in my current stable and I have done 2000 person outdoor festivals and huge unmic'ed indoor halls w/o ever having a headroom or loudness problem. It's one of the punchiest, gig-perfect amps I've owned or played. I don't understand the problem the one guy's having competing with the Matchless Lightning. I would bet his Maz 18 is just not dialed in properly. My Maz 18 easily competes with my Hot Cat 30R in the volume department. Sure, at the very limits of operation, the 30W Hot Cat is a bit louder, but not all that much...2-3dB at most. But, it's also the Maz 18 voicing and transient attack which helps it to cut as well as more powerful amps.
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Post by mazmaster on Jan 4, 2006 13:53:18 GMT -7
One common playing situation for me is with another guitarist with a wet-dry rig and a recent tendency to wage volume war. If I can come to terms with the amp itself, maybe the solution is just to avoid that particular playing situation. That's a slippery slope that will only lead to poor mixes and tinitus. I'll go out on a limb here and say that you have enough amp to play in most situations. When I play with a band, I'm only running about half opened up with my MAZ-Jr. A bigger amp will likely just lead you down the road of worse mixes and another level of volume war. I've been there once or twice, and will never, ever, ever go back. When the mix isn't right, start with reducing things, not increasing. Volume makes the ears saturate and fatigue to the point where it's a total cacophony. I would suggest that you try angling the cabinet up, face it towards you, at a distance that you can clearly hear it - and as long as you can hear the drums, singer and bass - leave it at that. Then, politely ask the other player to turn down. Volume doesn't make better music. Better musicians make better music. FOH Volume is for the PA. Cheers, Shawn Dittos. I've never had a problem cutting through with the Maz 18 or hearing myself. But, it helps a lot if the cab is on an ampstand and tilted up a bit. I like it hitting me about a foot or two *below* my head. That allows me to hear the band and myself w/o getting too loud.
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Post by Entropy on Jan 11, 2006 10:45:34 GMT -7
And, unlike what some have said about the Cut knob, I max it out! But, I do run the Treble around 10:00. Maxing out the Cut knob, running Mid around 1:30 and Volume around noon is the key to getting amazing tones with dirt pedals upfront, while also keeping the clean tones round and warm without too much breakup. Control brightness strictly with the Treble knob and your pedal's tone controls. I just tried these settings into a Bob Burt 1x12 loaded with a Naylor SD50 (basically, a C12N). Freaking killer, especially with a Zendrive in front of it. Thanks very much!
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