|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 22, 2016 9:23:46 GMT -7
Guys can you offer up some serious suggestions? I dont want to do any crazy mods to the amp other than if I have to add/change a cap or resistor seeing as that I am great with a solder iron and pretty good inside amps. A little history; I have the 1X12 combo with the G12M-65 Creamback, the NOS Russian 6n14n tubes, the stock Sovtek rectifier tube and I have tube rolled RFT's, CP Mullards's, JJ's (short & long plate) and EH 12AX7's. I play nothing but Gibson Les Paul Standards with the DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PUPs installed and the amp is always on the floor. I have read a lot about this topic on this forum about adding a 500pF cap across pins 6 & 8 on v1 and changing the rectifier tube to 5V4 or "go all the way to a 5Y3GT". All I want to do is maybe loosen up the amp and soften the highs w/o having to run the treble and cut at 1 or 0 which I could do if absolutely needed. So my questions are: 1. Is it worth adding the 500 pF cap across pins 6 & 8 on V1?? 2. Would it be better to change out the rectifier to either: a. A 5V4 or b. A 5Y3GT? 3. Which brand of 5V4 or 5Y3Gt would be best and where to buy them? ****would this be a good 5Y3GT to purchase: www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/5Y3-Tube-Types/JAN-Sylvania-5Y3WGTA
4. Should I invest in some expensive NOS 12AX7's and what would be the best and where to buy them. Thanks for your assistance and recos... MD
|
|
|
Post by greenblues58 on Dec 22, 2016 10:05:31 GMT -7
Could you elaborate a bit on your description of harshness and highs. l don't find my NR to be either with any of my humbucker guitars and l run my cut fairly high at about 1 to two o'clock volume at 12 treble at 1 middle at 3 bass on 9 master at 2. l have a greenback in mine so should be fairly similar to your cream back and l like a JJ 803S in V1 and stock sovtek LPS in PI and have Phillips branded 6n4n EL 84's. l always use the low input too especially with a lester and mostly with a strat.
|
|
|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 22, 2016 10:20:23 GMT -7
Not sure how to describe it other than as harsh as harsh would mean, brittle, ear piercing, ripping your ear drums apart with a razor blade not pleasant and smooth...its the upper upper highs as I would call them.
I us the HI input with the EQ as follows:
T=9:30 M=10:30 B=1:30 C=10:00 M=5:00
Volume on guitar anywhere from 7-10 and tone at 5-7 on the bridge pup.
I know a lot of guys play these amps using Strats/single coils??? I simply wonder if they are always on the neck pup and/or if they have the T and C set to 7:00 (off) or if they run the tone on the bridge pup at like 1???
The amp is NOT modded at all.
|
|
|
Post by digs57 on Dec 22, 2016 10:21:16 GMT -7
I guess I an with gb58 that I don't think any thing is harsh...jj make's a mid gain 12ax7
I primarily run strat's and tele's and yes I do have to run the
treb tele bridge "5"...tone
strat bridge "5 -7"... middle pkup could use "8" dialing...tone
Sometimes volume (guitar) has to be a little lower (7-9) to sweeten things.....
On amp treb 10...mid 9:30-10....bass never past 9...cut 8-8:30ish...to off if necessary...
|
|
|
Post by greenblues58 on Dec 22, 2016 10:36:07 GMT -7
When you say M = 5 do you mean your master is nearly on full ? In my experience with the Maz the higher the master the fuller and thicker the tone. Yes it does cut through as an amp in a band context, that's it's beauty, but sound slightly trebly in isolation facing you in a room. As previously stated try the low input.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 11:06:51 GMT -7
Maybe your speaker still needs to break in if it's new?
|
|
|
Post by limenine on Dec 22, 2016 11:23:21 GMT -7
^^^^ good point - maybe run it through one of your other speaker cabs to see if you are having trouble with the amp or speaker.
|
|
|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 22, 2016 11:56:13 GMT -7
When you say M = 5 do you mean your master is nearly on full ? In my experience with the Maz the higher the master the fuller and thicker the tone. Yes it does cut through as an amp in a band context, that's it's beauty, but sound slightly trebly in isolation facing you in a room. As previously stated try the low input. Yes M = 5 is almost max... Maybe that is the issue? I noticed it last night when I was practicing at a volume at about 10-11:00 and sitting/standing about 10 ft in front of it. I'd still like to know if investing in expensive NOS 12AX7's are worth it and if a different type or brand of rectifier tube will make any differences from anyone with experience swapping these tubes.
|
|
|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 22, 2016 11:56:51 GMT -7
When you say M = 5 do you mean your master is nearly on full ? In my experience with the Maz the higher the master the fuller and thicker the tone. Yes it does cut through as an amp in a band context, that's it's beauty, but sound slightly trebly in isolation facing you in a room. As previously stated try the low input. Yes M = 5 is almost max... Maybe that is the issue? I noticed it last night when I was practicing at a volume at about 10-11:00 and sitting/standing about 10 ft in front of it. I'd still like to know if investing in expensive NOS 12AX7's are worth it and if a different type or brand of rectifier tube will make any differences from anyone with experience swapping these tubes. I'll try another cab but the speaker has been used in another amp, this amp came with the G12H Vintage speaker.
|
|
|
Post by DRZ on Dec 22, 2016 14:08:15 GMT -7
Quote from marshalldog last week:
Tried this amp out at band practice last night and wow, it sounded great and is so versatile it's unbelievable!! Everyone else even the drummer commented on how good the tone sounded. And loud, never thought an 18 watter would be so loud! Glad I didnt get the 38 SR I love the breakup of this one. Im still in shock!!! I think ai am. Ot a Dr Z fan and this amp is here to stay!
Read more: ztalk.proboards.com/user/8316/recent#ixzz4TbRaJjrB
Quote from marshalldog this week : "brittle, ear piercing, ripping your ear drums apart with a razor blade not pleasant and smooth..."
What a difference a week makes......
|
|
|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 22, 2016 14:32:54 GMT -7
Quote from marshalldog last week:
Tried this amp out at band practice last night and wow, it sounded great and is so versatile it's unbelievable!! Everyone else even the drummer commented on how good the tone sounded. And loud, never thought an 18 watter would be so loud! Glad I didnt get the 38 SR I love the breakup of this one. Im still in shock!!! I think ai am. Ot a Dr Z fan and this amp is here to stay!
Read more: ztalk.proboards.com/user/8316/recent#ixzz4TbRaJjrB
Quote from marshalldog this week : "brittle, ear piercing, ripping your ear drums apart with a razor blade not pleasant and smooth..."
What a difference a week makes......
Yup thats right, things always change and change is inevitable, still sounds great but would just like to reduce those upper upper highs a bit especially when cranked up if at all possible with tubes no mods. What are your opinion(s) on 5V4 or 5Y3GT tube??? I am going to try running her with the cut at 7 or 8:00 and see what happens. Just curious, when and why would someone run the treble really high and/or the cut really high? I simply dont understand?? I would think a Strat would have even more highs compared to my LPS and amp with a Creamback in it and the NOS Russian tubes hence I would need the settings higher not almost set to 0...just a question I have been wondering about??
|
|
|
Post by dcarver on Dec 22, 2016 14:36:51 GMT -7
Is this a different guitar than you've playing ? Maybe experiment with the height of the offending pickup and/or pole pieces. From another forum:
<< Adjust them in relation to each other to balance volume between strings. Adjust them all together to change over-all volume of the pickup.
Wound strings will need to have higher pole piece screws to balance in volume with the plain strings. Thicker strings of the same type will need to have lower pole piece screws to balance with the thinner strings of the same type. (By "type," I mean wound or plain.)
No need to pull your hair out. You just do it by ear.
Using the height of the entire pickup to set volume can be done as well, but it also changes the tone significantly. Lower pickup = less bass/mud, and vice versa. So if you don't want a change in tone, it is best to use the pole piece screws to adjust the volume.
I tend to use them more to change treble response on the strings (in conjunction with the adjusting the pickup height. More bite = lower pickup and screws high. Thicker tone = pickup closer to strings and screws down. >>
|
|
|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 22, 2016 14:42:51 GMT -7
Is this a different guitar than you've playing ? Maybe experiment with the height of the offending pickup and/or pole pieces. From another forum: << Adjust them in relation to each other to balance volume between strings. Adjust them all together to change over-all volume of the pickup.
Wound strings will need to have higher pole piece screws to balance in volume with the plain strings. Thicker strings of the same type will need to have lower pole piece screws to balance with the thinner strings of the same type. (By "type," I mean wound or plain.)
No need to pull your hair out. You just do it by ear.
Using the height of the entire pickup to set volume can be done as well, but it also changes the tone significantly. Lower pickup = less bass/mud, and vice versa. So if you don't want a change in tone, it is best to use the pole piece screws to adjust the volume.
I tend to use them more to change treble response on the strings (in conjunction with the adjusting the pickup height. More bite = lower pickup and screws high. Thicker tone = pickup closer to strings and screws down. >>That is some good info their man and I love the way you explained it, best I have ever heard of. I have never messed with the pole height just the total PUP height, may give this a try tonight...
|
|
|
Post by digs57 on Dec 22, 2016 17:58:01 GMT -7
Maybe the maz isn't your amp...I did find I needed some time with it to learn what I needed from it...but I never disliked the general character of the amp enough to want to alter...reverb model's a little more laid back???
It was me more than the amps tone or what it had to offer...as someone told me that sells these things"I wouldn't be surprised if it's the only amp youll ever need (like) out of the lineup"...haven't yet to try most...but for now got to agree to this day...
|
|
|
Post by hotbridgesss on Dec 22, 2016 18:57:33 GMT -7
I guess I an with gb58 that I don't think any thing is harsh...jj make's a mid gain 12ax7
I primarily run strat's and tele's and yes I do have to run the
treb tele bridge "5"...tone
strat bridge "5 -7"... middle pkup could use "8" dialing...tone
Sometimes volume (guitar) has to be a little lower (7-9) to sweeten things.....
On amp treb 10...mid 9:30-10....bass never past 9...cut 8-8:30ish...to off if necessary...
Plus one to Dave's comment. I took his advice (and tubes) with the mid gain 12ax7 in V1 and V2. Really smooths out the tone but still breaks up when you dig in. Remember the Maz amps (most Zs) are very organic with distortion and respond to pick attack. With this simple and cheap mod. I can have fat ZZ Top tone on bridge pickup of a maple neck strat (tone rolled off a bit)
|
|
|
Post by simpleton on Dec 22, 2016 19:23:14 GMT -7
When my dad bought his MAZ 18 he felt it was a bit bright...for him it was a speaker change to a Canabis Rex that smoothed it out for him. With every Z I've owned, at one time or another, I felt they were to bright. Every time it was either EQing with less bias in my settings and being open to knobs looking weird, or a tube or speaker switch that fixed it.
I would suggest patience while fine tuning it to your ear. Z amps are like race cars and every driver has his or her preference....a few small changes will bring long time rewards. At least that has been my experience with my Z amp journey.
Have fun
|
|
|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 22, 2016 19:56:15 GMT -7
I guess I an with gb58 that I don't think any thing is harsh...jj make's a mid gain 12ax7
I primarily run strat's and tele's and yes I do have to run the
treb tele bridge "5"...tone
strat bridge "5 -7"... middle pkup could use "8" dialing...tone
Sometimes volume (guitar) has to be a little lower (7-9) to sweeten things.....
On amp treb 10...mid 9:30-10....bass never past 9...cut 8-8:30ish...to off if necessary...
Plus one to Dave's comment. I took his advice (and tubes) with the mid gain 12ax7 in V1 and V2. Really smooths out the tone but still breaks up when you dig in. Remember the Maz amps (most Zs) are very organic with distortion and respond to pick attack. With this simple and cheap mod. I can have fat ZZ Top tone on bridge pickup of a maple neck strat (tone rolled off a bit) I have the JJ mid gain 12ax7s but did not want to try them because I though it would affect the overall gain too much...in a negative way. I guess I will have to break them out as soon as I can and try them...
|
|
|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 22, 2016 20:00:34 GMT -7
When my dad bought his MAZ 18 he felt it was a bit bright...for him it was a speaker change to a Canabis Rex that smoothed it out for him. With every Z I've owned, at one time or another, I felt they were to bright. Every time it was either EQing with less bias in my settings and being open to knobs looking weird, or a tube or speaker switch that fixed it. I would suggest patience while fine tuning it to your ear. Z amps are like race cars and every driver has his or her preference....a few small changes will bring long time rewards. At least that has been my experience with my Z amp journey. Have fun I will say that tonight I turned the CUT to about 6:30/7:00 and it sounded much better taking out those irritating highs...makes me wonder why the CUT control is set to be run sooo low when I play through an LPS with thick pups and the amp has a Creamback in it? I could understand if I was playing a single coil guitar or had a really bright speaker in it....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 20:36:48 GMT -7
Try an Eminence speaker. They're like Celestion's without throwing daggers at your ears.
I run a Z12 with mine, V:noon, T:1pm, M:noon, B:9am, Cut:noon, Master:noon. Mullards in V1 and V2, LPS in V3 and Preferred Series EL84's in the rear. The amp is bright, but in "a cut through the mix in a live situation" good kind of way.
95% of the time, I play humbuckers. When I grab the Tele, I turn the cut down and the treble on the guitar way down.
|
|
|
Post by dergit (Markus) on Dec 23, 2016 4:16:20 GMT -7
wrt to rectifiers... no one is replying to your questions about these because they don't make much of a difference. If you generally dislike the way the amp sounds, a rectifier (or most tubes, for that matter) isn't going to fix that. I wanted to see what it does: If you swapped the rectifier in one of my MAZs without me knowing, I'd probably never know. Instead try: 1. adjusting pickup height, like dcarver has suggested. This won't really work if you like your LP through another amp, though. 2. going back to the stock tubes the Doc picked out. He's good at that. Then one by one swap them in or out if you want to see what happens. 3. breaking in the speaker like mark N has mentioned. It makes a *big* difference. 4. swapping the speaker. Again. If you don't like the base sound of your MAZ, this isn't going to fix it. It's a tweak, not a makeover. 5. lowering the master. It might be the 12AX7LPS overloading in the PI spot that's causing some harsh distortion that's annoying you. 6. 5751s in v1 and v2. Lower gain, more mids, less treble. Again, this is just a minor tweak. 7. lower the treble setting and raise the cut and vice versa – which do you like more? If none of those work, the MAZ ain't for you. Which would be strange. I've yet to meet someone who couldn't find a good sound in there.
|
|
|
Post by DRZ on Dec 23, 2016 4:51:27 GMT -7
I have to agree with Marcus on the change of a 5V4 in the MAZ. What I hear is more of a looseness in the low end with the 5V4, which isn't surprising as the power supply is now lowered with the 5V4. There is also a slight drop in output wattage with the 5V4.
Also V3 the 12AX7LPS can be a bit HiFi sounding to some , maybe try a Chinese 12AX7 , they have a smoother more compressed tone.
Z
|
|
|
Post by greenblues58 on Dec 23, 2016 5:13:44 GMT -7
I did run with a nice 5751 ( surprisingly an old groove tubes )in my PI position until it gave up when l first acquired my NR and it also generally gave a smoother less strident tonality to the amp especially with a lester than its original LPS . I have also used a balanced JJ803s in the PI to good effect but returned to a new LPS in fact most of my amps are sporting the LPS in the PI.
|
|
|
Post by Maddog on Dec 23, 2016 5:40:56 GMT -7
..... it was a speaker change to a Canabis Rex that smoothed it out ....... If you wanna knock the top off yer tone in any amp, this speaker will do it and still sound wonderful! +1000
|
|
|
Post by mpa93 on Dec 23, 2016 6:30:05 GMT -7
..... it was a speaker change to a Canabis Rex that smoothed it out ....... If you wanna knock the top off yer tone in any amp, this speaker will do it and still sound wonderful! +1000 +1 I recently picked up a Princeton with a 12" Cannabis Rex and it sounds great. I am tempted to try it with my Maz 18 NR.
|
|
|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 23, 2016 8:09:37 GMT -7
If you wanna knock the top off yer tone in any amp, this speaker will do it and still sound wonderful! +1000 +1 I recently picked up a Princeton with a 12" Cannabis Rex and it sounds great. I am tempted to try it with my Maz 18 NR. I will have to look into this one...
|
|
|
Post by Marshalldog on Dec 23, 2016 8:14:04 GMT -7
Guys, all great suggestions. I have some Jan-GE 5751's sitting around that I may try in V1. I kind of like the way the 5V4 sounds but I dont want to lower the output power so I'll have to think about that or just maybe run the CUT real low which seems to work...
|
|
|
Post by John on Dec 23, 2016 8:30:24 GMT -7
Turn the Cut and Treble knobs ALL THE WAY OFF. If at this point it sounds like it's muffled, in a closet and needs treble....then you know you need to find a setting in between the two.
Start adjusting, playing, fiddling with the knobs (cut and treble) in between "All the way off"...and 'previous settings". The sound is in there. It's just a matter of finding it. (personally, I would leave the cut all the way off, and increase the treble with your eyes closed.) I would do this before swapping tubes.
If you have the cut and treble all the way off, and the amp still sounds too bright. Sell the amp and move on. No speaker change or tube swap will ever satisfy you.
Don't be afraid have the cut and treble settings set low. Most guitar player will walk up to a new amp...before playing a single note.... and turn the treble and bass up. That's just what we're used to doing. Z amps can be different. Adjust the tone controls with your eyes shut.
|
|
|
Post by BritInvasion on Dec 23, 2016 8:45:25 GMT -7
FWIW , I noticed you plug into the Hi input. I play mainly Gibsons w/buckers , and it may sound simple , but give it a good try in the Lo input. It does make a difference.
|
|
|
Post by ME on Dec 23, 2016 8:46:41 GMT -7
While not owning a MAZ 18 NR, I have had several Z's. I have found they can be strident. Not bad in a band situation, though it did irritate me when playing alone. Not enough of a problem not to play, but I have had a few amps looking for the one. Surprise, there is no one amp that works in all situations! Some may disagree, this is my experience. ME
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 9:34:10 GMT -7
Do you play with your amp on the floor or is it on a stand or a case?
|
|