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Post by lostpoet2 on Dec 15, 2016 8:01:50 GMT -7
Great looking amp. Can someone explain how the master versus level control works? I've seen Mesa amps with a global volume control and separate master volumes on each channel, but how are these controls intended to interact? For example, at a given preamp volume level, how does running the master high and the level low compare to running the master low and the level high?
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Post by simpleton on Dec 15, 2016 8:10:21 GMT -7
With Z amps you will see that Master high and Volume/gain low will equal bigger cleans and also more over all volume along with more power tube action....Volume/gain high and Master low will mean lower over all volume as well as more pre amp gain.
Crank them both as far to the right a possible and let her rip.....welcome to ZTALK
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Post by lostpoet2 on Dec 15, 2016 8:15:44 GMT -7
I'm not aware of another Z amp that has a master and a level control, so I'm thinking this is a new concept. I've owned a MAZ 18NR for a long time and I used to own a Remedy, so I'm familiar with how most of Z's master volumes work.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 8:16:31 GMT -7
I'm guessing it's an attenuator of sorts...
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Post by frankie on Dec 15, 2016 10:23:03 GMT -7
Great looking amp. Can someone explain how the master versus level control works? I've seen Mesa amps with a global volume control and separate master volumes on each channel, but how are these controls intended to interact? For example, at a given preamp volume level, how does running the master high and the level low compare to running the master low and the level high? The level controls the overall output volume. On a lot of amps, master volumes tend to control the signal getting to the output stage, so as the master gets higher, you start to hear output stage (power tube) distortion. The gain level is an input level control, where as you bring it higher you will get more preamp distortion. The level control will not induce any sort of distortion when it is all the way up. It simply will bring the level of what you are hearing down, be it preamp saturation, clean, or power tube saturation.
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Post by frankie on Dec 15, 2016 10:24:53 GMT -7
I'm guessing it's an attenuator of sorts... Yes, emphasis on "of sorts." It attenuates the signal, but is not an output stage attenuator like an Air Brake. It is also not a power scaling control. It's what we will call "a lil bit of that Z magic" happening. Can't let all the cats out of the bag now, can we...
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Post by wubberdubber on Dec 15, 2016 10:30:51 GMT -7
Just took a look at the new Cure amp trailer, and noticed it has Volume, Master, AND Level....hmmmmm.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Dec 15, 2016 10:52:04 GMT -7
Just took a look at the new Cure amp trailer, and noticed it has Volume, Master, AND Level....hmmmmm. Add a Brake Lite attenuator and my OCD would approach near-meltdown proportions...
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Dec 15, 2016 11:51:19 GMT -7
And here I thought I was safe from the Cure, having convinced myself that my Z-Lux at half power is a Cure w/o reverb and tremolo. Now there's LEVEL to feed the GAS/OCD. Looks like I'm going to have to sell some gear, because now I can't see myself making it through 2017 without one of Doc's latest hits. EDIT: Having an addictive nature sucks sometimes... EDIT #2:
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Post by Easyrom on Dec 18, 2016 15:53:11 GMT -7
And here I thought I was safe from the Cure, having convinced myself that my Z-Lux at half power is a Cure w/o reverb and tremolo. Now there's LEVEL to feed the GAS/OCD. Looks like I'm going to have to sell some gear, because now I can't see myself making it through 2017 without one of Doc's latest hits. EDIT: Having an addictive nature sucks sometimes... EDIT #2: I guess you have a problem. I guess you're not alone.
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Post by benluke on Dec 26, 2016 10:11:26 GMT -7
As a Dr Z and a Carr owner could it not be the equivalent of Carr's 'Headroom' Control? Set the breakup level using Master and Volume then turn it to the desired volume utilising the 'Headroom'or 'Level' control? anyway it's a great feature...........
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Post by frankie on Dec 26, 2016 11:43:09 GMT -7
As a Dr Z and a Carr owner could it not be the equivalent of Carr's 'Headroom' Control? Set the breakup level using Master and Volume then turn it to the desired volume utilising the 'Headroom'or 'Level' control? anyway it's a great feature........... I have not played a Carr, but by describing the control as "Headroom" it would imply, at least to me, when the amp would start to break up. High headroom = cleaner, less compressed, low headroom = compression, clipping, distortion. I don't know the operation of the Carr "Headroom" control, but you can consider the "Level" control on the Cure a "loudness" control. You described the operation of the "Level" control succinctly enough. Breakup amount, clean headroom is controlled by the Master and Volume controls on the Cure. The "Level" control will neither increase headroom nor lower it. It will simply control the loudness of whatever is coming out of the amp. At 10, the amp will be at it's maximum volume. Setting the it lower will simply decrease that volume, no matter where the other controls are set.
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Post by DRZ on Dec 26, 2016 12:27:17 GMT -7
As a Dr Z and a Carr owner could it not be the equivalent of Carr's 'Headroom' Control? Set the breakup level using Master and Volume then turn it to the desired volume utilising the 'Headroom'or 'Level' control? anyway it's a great feature........... The "Level" control will neither increase headroom nor lower it. It will simply control the loudness of whatever is coming out of the amp. At 10, the amp will be at it's maximum volume. Setting the Level lower will simply decrease that volume, no matter where the other controls are set. Well put Frankie. You set the Cure for your perfect Tone, and if asked to lower your volume , just adjust Level . Your Tone and Gain stay the same , as demonstrated by Dave on the teaser, just the Volume Unit (VU) will decrease with slight Level adjustments. A near perfect solution to age old problem. Z
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Post by teddysalad on Dec 26, 2016 13:33:27 GMT -7
I've got a Cure on pre order. Can't wait to try it in my stereo setup with my Carmen Ghia!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 19:44:25 GMT -7
The "Level" control will neither increase headroom nor lower it. It will simply control the loudness of whatever is coming out of the amp. At 10, the amp will be at it's maximum volume. Setting the Level lower will simply decrease that volume, no matter where the other controls are set. Well put Frankie. You set the Cure for your perfect Tone, and if asked to lower your volume , just adjust Level . Your Tone and Gain stay the same , as demonstrated by Dave on the teaser, just the Volume Unit (VU) will decrease with slight Level adjustments. A near perfect solution to age old problem. Z Not to put the cart before the horse, but color me interested to see if this level control will be on more Z amps moving forward, or can be retro-fitted to existing models. I'm more hopeful for the former, as I know the latter would probably lead to an insane workload for the mod shop.
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Dec 28, 2016 4:29:32 GMT -7
I'm very curious to learn how it works.
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Post by Easyrom on Dec 28, 2016 5:05:49 GMT -7
Ok, now my GAS is reloaded!
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Post by Easyrom on Dec 29, 2016 2:30:31 GMT -7
Hi guys,
The Cure is growing on me now.
I've a technical question though. A technical question which needs a non so technical answer please! ;-)
I have a Z-Lux and I use it at home. My neighbors are nice, but still my half power switch is always engaged and my Brake Lite is set on 3 or 4 most of the time (I like to have grit from the amp itself and the Z-Lux hasn't so much gain so I have to keep both volume and master above noon and more about 3).
So my question is: how would the level knob of the Cure would compare with such a use of the Brake Lite? I really love the Z-Lux and this Level control is the only thing that makes me looking at the Cure right now...
Thanks for your help!
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Dec 29, 2016 3:26:17 GMT -7
I think that's along the lines of what everyone is wondering, yeah...
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Post by DRZ on Dec 29, 2016 4:33:46 GMT -7
So my question is: how would the level knob of the Cure would compare with such a use of the Brake Lite? I really love the Z-Lux and this Level control is the only thing that makes me looking at the Cure right now... Thanks for your help! I'll answer your question but first I feel the need to state that the due to the Z Lux's half power circuit, a Level type control can not be integrated to it's design. OK the Level control and the Brake Lite have similar effects on the output volume of said amps. The Brake Lite is a more Course control with -2dB steps per click. The Level control is a Fine adjustment of over all loudness, a very linear sweep to achieve lower output volume. As stated before the Level control will allow more controlled and smaller adjustments to your output , as well as allow good whisper level tones. DR.Z
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Post by Easyrom on Dec 29, 2016 4:49:08 GMT -7
So my question is: how would the level knob of the Cure would compare with such a use of the Brake Lite? I really love the Z-Lux and this Level control is the only thing that makes me looking at the Cure right now... Thanks for your help! I'll answer your question but first I feel the need to state that the due to the Z Lux's half power circuit, a Level type control can not be integrated to it's design. OK the Level control and the Brake Lite have similar effects on the output volume of said amps. The Brake Lite is a more Course control with -2dB steps per click. The Level control is a Fine adjustment of over all loudness, a very linear sweep to achieve lower output volume. As stated before the Level control will allow more controlled and smaller adjustments to your output , as well as allow good whisper level tones. DR.Z Thank you very much for this precise and clear answer. Did I mention that I love your amps?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 10:17:04 GMT -7
So my question is: how would the level knob of the Cure would compare with such a use of the Brake Lite? I really love the Z-Lux and this Level control is the only thing that makes me looking at the Cure right now... Thanks for your help! I'll answer your question but first I feel the need to state that the due to the Z Lux's half power circuit, a Level type control can not be integrated to it's design. OK the Level control and the Brake Lite have similar effects on the output volume of said amps. The Brake Lite is a more Course control with -2dB steps per click. The Level control is a Fine adjustment of over all loudness, a very linear sweep to achieve lower output volume. As stated before the Level control will allow more controlled and smaller adjustments to your output , as well as allow good whisper level tones. DR.Z Is the Level control something you might use down the road on an El84 based amp? I am probably wrong but it seems as though this Level Control could bring the Tube amp into another realm: I didn't notice any mic used in the video: Dave commented it was quiet and the tone sounded great:
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Post by DRZ on Jan 4, 2017 11:09:37 GMT -7
Hey Rickenbacker, I might include the Level control in future designs, as I feel it has a place in the lower volume amps built today. But I will wait to see how it is excepted in the CURE first.
That video was recorded on a iPhone 7, what an incredible piece of technology. The video and the audio surprised Dave and myself. Dave said lets do more impromptu videos when I stop in the shop, I think that one did well. I have to agree, so look forward to more iPhone videos.
Z
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 7:41:39 GMT -7
Hey Rickenbacker, I might include the Level control in future designs, as I feel it has a place in the lower volume amps built today. But I will wait to see how it is excepted in the CURE first.
That video was recorded on a iPhone 7, what an incredible piece of technology. The video and the audio surprised Dave and myself. Dave said lets do more impromptu videos when I stop in the shop, I think that one did well. I have to agree, so look forward to more iPhone videos.
Z Morning Doc Thanks for reply : Yeeah iPhones are great . I often use mine to play backing tracks thru a Flat Response speaker and jam along. IMO the way you guys presented the Cure gave me a really realistic idea of what the amp sounds like, at the volume my house windows can sustain:). As I said before,IMO you're really on to somethng . Looking forward to one Thanks again
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Post by mangoman on Jan 9, 2017 7:03:40 GMT -7
The "Level" control will neither increase headroom nor lower it. It will simply control the loudness of whatever is coming out of the amp. At 10, the amp will be at it's maximum volume. Setting the Level lower will simply decrease that volume, no matter where the other controls are set. Well put Frankie. You set the Cure for your perfect Tone, and if asked to lower your volume , just adjust Level . Your Tone and Gain stay the same , as demonstrated by Dave on the teaser, just the Volume Unit (VU) will decrease with slight Level adjustments. A near perfect solution to age old problem. Z Oh my lord Doc!!! Can I be hopefull to maybe see a Maz, Z28 or Ghia with this sort of option??? I think that burning smell is a huge fire in my wallet that is fanning the flames of my GAS for your amps. Thanks for all you do. Now to get an ice pack on my head from hitting the floor this morning....
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Post by Ryan (shorty) on Jan 9, 2017 19:17:38 GMT -7
Well put Frankie. You set the Cure for your perfect Tone, and if asked to lower your volume , just adjust Level . Your Tone and Gain stay the same , as demonstrated by Dave on the teaser, just the Volume Unit (VU) will decrease with slight Level adjustments. A near perfect solution to age old problem. Z Oh my lord Doc!!! Can I be hopefull to maybe see a Maz, Z28 or Ghia with this sort of option??? I think that burning smell is a huge fire in my wallet that is fanning the flames of my GAS for your amps. Thanks for all you do. Now to get an ice pack on my head from hitting the floor this morning.... The Level control on a Z28 would be perfect.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Jan 10, 2017 12:26:24 GMT -7
Oh my lord Doc!!! Can I be hopefull to maybe see a Maz, Z28 or Ghia with this sort of option??? I think that burning smell is a huge fire in my wallet that is fanning the flames of my GAS for your amps. Thanks for all you do. Now to get an ice pack on my head from hitting the floor this morning.... The Level control on a Z28 would be perfect. I retro fitted a Power Scaling MV to mine years ago........just perfect!
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