|
Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Dec 24, 2015 10:34:38 GMT -7
Hey guys, I played Fenders for many many years and never owned a Marshall until I got a 2x12 combo JCM800 that I had for a few years, ergo my question:
I've heard that the Maz 8 is voiced like a Plexi. Can anyone comment on this? Is it similar in gain structure, tone stack, breakup, or is this a baseless internet rumor? The main reason I'm interested is to discover a little more about the heritage and aim of the Maz 8. I know that Doc has mentioned that he wanted a small, low powered, full featured amplifier to round out the line, but I'm wondering if there's more to it. I appreciate your thoughts and comments!
|
|
|
Post by BritInvasion on Dec 24, 2015 10:48:41 GMT -7
I'd say it can get a little plexi-ish cranked on the hi input with the tone stack bypassed , especially if you have a non-alnico Celestion in there.
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Dec 24, 2015 11:32:32 GMT -7
I'll echo Frank's comment. I would not describe the base tone zone as plexi or any other Marshall style for that matter. I feel the MAZ tilts a bit more toward Vox and Fender. Yes, those are different amps, but the flexibility of the MAZ series lets you dial in those "tilts" without being clones. I think John has stated something like "Ghia is 2/3 Marshall, 1/3 Vox and MAZ is 1/3 Marshall, 2/3 Vox." Not an inappropriate simplification of Doc's "Swiss Army Knife" amp.
What do you think about yours, Dave?
|
|
|
Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Dec 24, 2015 11:36:38 GMT -7
Plexi tones more from Remedy than Maz 8.
|
|
|
Post by heynewguy (Ol’ Bill) on Dec 24, 2015 12:42:59 GMT -7
Plexi tones more from Remedy than Maz 8. I'll drink to that Mike!
|
|
|
Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Dec 25, 2015 8:49:39 GMT -7
I'll echo Frank's comment. I would not describe the base tone zone as plexi or any other Marshall style for that matter. I feel the MAZ tilts a bit more toward Vox and Fender. Yes, those are different amps, but the flexibility of the MAZ series lets you dial in those "tilts" without being clones. I think John has stated something like "Ghia is 2/3 Marshall, 1/3 Vox and MAZ is 1/3 Marshall, 2/3 Vox." Not an inappropriate simplification of Doc's "Swiss Army Knife" amp. What do you think about yours, Dave? I've got a strange relationship with mine, because after owning it for almost a year (and this is hard to admit) and not really bonding with it, I finally changed the one tube that I assumed was good from the start, the rectifier. In all my years of working on amps, playing them, building them, I have NEVER EVER FOUND A RECTIFIER THAT SOUNDED BAD. It has always been my experience that they either work or don't work. The only other thing I ever found was microphonic ones...but never one that was quiet, yet affected the tone in a bad way. I asked Doc about things that might cause a funny, rather subtle aftertone or overtone to some of the lower notes, and he suggested changing the rectifier out, and kapow...now I own a completely different sounding amplifier. It really changed the amp fundamentally. After the holidays I'm going to put the tube on my curve tracer and see exactly why it did what it did. So to answer your query, Mike, I'm still getting to know the amplifier. My wife got me some new output tubes for Christmas and I'm going to put one of those in later, but I really like the new direction that the sound has taken. At this stage of my life I really thought I'd seen it all. Just goes to show that you can ALWAYS learn something new!!!
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Dec 25, 2015 9:42:36 GMT -7
^^^ Interesting finding, Dave. It will be interesting to see what you discover when you pursue the tube research. Glad you got it sounding "right" as the MAZ 8 is a terrific amp. (I say that about all Doc's gear and, no, I am not on his payroll ) I'm having fun playing it with different guitars. For a long time, I only had a Tele sitting by the 8. Last time I took a P90 guitar, re-set the controls, and away I went. Good stuff.
|
|
|
Post by BritInvasion on Dec 25, 2015 9:53:31 GMT -7
^^ P90's rip in the 8!
|
|
|
Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Dec 25, 2015 11:09:03 GMT -7
It really is like a new amp. I've got to break out my LP Jr and Goldtop for some P90 glory!
|
|
garfy
New Member
Posts: 47
|
Post by garfy on Dec 26, 2015 1:59:29 GMT -7
As I'm fairly new to my Maz 8 I'm still discovering its flexibility, out of interest, what was the make of tube you changed too? I've read that it's not only the V1 that can have an effect on the amps "voice" and that's clearly what you've discovered Dave. ive always followed the path of changing the preamp tubes especially V1 to 5751 to give me more clean headroom in my previous amps. Perhaps this is due to my Z being my first "real" amp. The build is second to none and its response and feel really is astonishing. It's definitely helping me to improve my technique as there's nowhere to hide
|
|
|
Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Dec 27, 2015 6:47:18 GMT -7
Originally the amp came with a Sovtek. I replaced it with an old Mullard.
|
|
garfy
New Member
Posts: 47
|
Post by garfy on Dec 27, 2015 10:28:29 GMT -7
Originally the amp came with a Sovtek. I replaced it with an old Mullard. Many thanks, I'll report back once I've managed to source one hopefully.
|
|
|
Post by dergit (Markus) on Dec 29, 2015 10:58:31 GMT -7
Mehhh... Don't worry about finding a Mullard GZ34. I spent approx $150 on one and here's what I found: My MAZ 8 came equipped with a current production JJ GZ34 that works really well (although I can't complain about the stock Sovtek in my 18 either). I'm using the GE 5V4GA at home now (simply because its shape makes it less road-appropriate) and the Brimar 5V4G in the 18 that goes on tour with me. Those are very affordable NOS options. I'll use the Mullard when we book studio time but that's more because I have it and I might as well use that fairy dust... not because it actually sounds better to my ears. So if anyone in Germany/Europe wants it (it has maybe 5 hours on it), let me know. To me, the rectifier is more about dynamics and feel (attack, decay, sustain, release – especially pick attack and release...) than sound (saturation, frequency spectrum...). The 5V4s I have don't "quit" (release) as instantly as my 5AR4s when I mute notes and they're a bit less snappy when I strike them – which can be a good thing. But the differences are small. If you swap them out without me knowing, I probably won't ever know. If Dave's 5AR4 really sounded different to a point where the Mullard turned his MAZ into a different amp, I'd venture a guess that something was wrong with that particular tube rather than that it was the wrong type of tube to begin with. It's likely that a properly working current production Sovtek would've had the same effect – at 10% the price.
|
|
|
Post by BritInvasion on Dec 29, 2015 11:28:51 GMT -7
I recently pulled an NOS GE 5AR4 from my 8 and installed a new Sovtek. Dergit is spot-on , it really is a "feel" thing more than anything else. The NOS GE had a bit too much "sag" for what I'm doing and the Sovtek has a firmer response to my pick attack.
|
|
garfy
New Member
Posts: 47
|
Post by garfy on Dec 29, 2015 11:35:49 GMT -7
Many thanks dergit for your advice, great work on the clip. I'll sit on my hands for a while
|
|
|
Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Dec 30, 2015 15:32:49 GMT -7
Mehhh... Don't worry about finding a Mullard GZ34. I spent approx $150 on one and here's what I found: My MAZ 8 came equipped with a current production JJ GZ34 that works really well (although I can't complain about the stock Sovtek in my 18 either). I'm using the GE 5V4GA at home now (simply because its shape makes it less road-appropriate) and the Brimar 5V4G in the 18 that goes on tour with me. Those are very affordable NOS options. I'll use the Mullard when we book studio time but that's more because I have it and I might as well use that fairy dust... not because it actually sounds better to my ears. So if anyone in Germany/Europe wants it (it has maybe 5 hours on it), let me know. To me, the rectifier is more about dynamics and feel (attack, decay, sustain, release – especially pick attack and release...) than sound (saturation, frequency spectrum...). The 5V4s I have don't "quit" (release) as instantly as my 5AR4s when I mute notes and they're a bit less snappy when I strike them – which can be a good thing. But the differences are small. If you swap them out without me knowing, I probably won't ever know. If Dave's 5AR4 really sounded different to a point where the Mullard turned his MAZ into a different amp, I'd venture a guess that something was wrong with that particular tube rather than that it was the wrong type of tube to begin with. It's likely that a properly working current production Sovtek would've had the same effect – at 10% the price. That's what I was trying to convey originally, that the Sovtek 5AR4 tube was bad from the start.
|
|
|
Post by zpilot on Jan 24, 2016 17:53:14 GMT -7
Mehhh... Don't worry about finding a Mullard GZ34. I spent approx $150 on one and here's what I found: My MAZ 8 came equipped with a current production JJ GZ34 that works really well (although I can't complain about the stock Sovtek in my 18 either). I'm using the GE 5V4GA at home now (simply because its shape makes it less road-appropriate) and the Brimar 5V4G in the 18 that goes on tour with me. Those are very affordable NOS options. I'll use the Mullard when we book studio time but that's more because I have it and I might as well use that fairy dust... not because it actually sounds better to my ears. So if anyone in Germany/Europe wants it (it has maybe 5 hours on it), let me know. To me, the rectifier is more about dynamics and feel (attack, decay, sustain, release – especially pick attack and release...) than sound (saturation, frequency spectrum...). The 5V4s I have don't "quit" (release) as instantly as my 5AR4s when I mute notes and they're a bit less snappy when I strike them – which can be a good thing. But the differences are small. If you swap them out without me knowing, I probably won't ever know. If Dave's 5AR4 really sounded different to a point where the Mullard turned his MAZ into a different amp, I'd venture a guess that something was wrong with that particular tube rather than that it was the wrong type of tube to begin with. It's likely that a properly working current production Sovtek would've had the same effect – at 10% the price. I tend to agree with this. I have several different 5AR4 rectifiers: Mullard, Phillips JAN, GE, RCA, Sovteks, and some others. I've tried them in different amps and if the B+ measures within 5 volts or so of each other I can't tell any difference. That's the thing. All of the NOS tubes fall within a narrow range. The new production tubes vary a lot more. If the B+ with a Sovtek or JJ measures close to the NOS tubes I think it works just as good. The main reason I use the NOS rectifiers is they are much more reliable than new production. I say that based on my experience with Sovteks. The jury is still out on JJ's. I haven't seen any of them fail in customer's amps but only a couple of them have the JJ's in them and they've only had them for a year or two. The B+ with JJ's also tend to measure closer to the NOS. Fortunately I bought the NOS tubes back when you could get them for around $40.
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 25, 2016 14:56:54 GMT -7
I'm new to this discussion...
A maz 8 voiced like a plexi?
Not at all.
Not only is the preamp voiced a bit different, the small bottle el84 can't reproduce a big bottle sound when pushed hard. It gives off a certain harmonic tone (when pushed hard), and it's one of the reasons we like the el84...but it's not a big bottle.
|
|
|
Post by Faze on Jan 25, 2016 15:11:36 GMT -7
Plexi tones more from Remedy than Maz 8. Exactly. Plexi tones = Remedy
|
|
|
Post by mickey on Jan 28, 2016 10:40:31 GMT -7
I put a NOS Mullard GZ34 (5AR4) in my Maz Sr several years ago to replace the Sovtek that came with the amp. This was purely to make sure I got a reliable rectifier in there, as the Sovteks are not known for their longevity, and a failed rectifier can cause other problems, so I believe. I felt at the time that the Mullard may have changed the feel of the amp ever so slightly, with maybe a bit less sag, but there was no tonal difference that I could hear, and I didn't expect there to be. That Mullard is still in the amp and going strong. I don't expect to have to replace it, ever.
|
|