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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 18, 2006 14:44:20 GMT -7
I'm trying to decide if I should order an open back cab with Celstion Alnico Blues, or use one of the cabs I have here for the Stingray. Anyone have the 2x12 open back with Blues and have a comparison to anything else driving from the Stingray? I'm curious as to what your impressions are.
Of course, ordering a cab that matches has a great deal of appeal, but I have a lot of cabs here and if I can get GREAT tones with one, I may just do that. I know, it's only money, but that 2x12 open back with Blues runs over $1100! Ouch!
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Post by billyguitar on Apr 18, 2006 15:16:11 GMT -7
Zs cab with blues is on sale, when you buy a Stangray. That doesn't help you though 'cause you've already got a head coming I believe.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 18, 2006 15:37:43 GMT -7
Correct!
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Post by prowler on Apr 18, 2006 18:40:17 GMT -7
I say try the cabs you have first. If you still feel like something is missing from the tone order up a new cab.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Apr 18, 2006 21:48:47 GMT -7
Bentop,
I've been using several different cabs and they ALL sound good to me...just depends on what your looking for BUT... I believe you have and use several THD cabs...
I have my THD 2x12 loaded with two 50 watt Weber ceramic Blue/ silver speakers and it ROCKS!! so I think with your cut and (i'm assuming you have the celestion lead 80's still in yours) the original speakers it should sound good... I wouldn't hesitate to try some different speakers in one of those cabs...even the blues.. I LOVE that THD 2x12 cab (easy to pick up too) and then you could just swap around speakers to your liking... might even find a happy medium with a speaker that your flexi and the Stingray both likes... I really, really like that cab/ speakers with it and also the 16 ohm with alnico blue/silver I got from Madison...
hey my THD cab is black and wheat... I bet YOURS is too... and the head you just got is BLACK and TAN just like Madisons.... Madison puts his on his 1x12 BlacK and Wheat cab and it matches pretty well... coinsidence.... I think not. ;D
Jason
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 18, 2006 22:44:40 GMT -7
Bentop, I've been using several different cabs and they ALL sound good to me...just depends on what your looking for BUT... I believe you have and use several THD cabs... I have my THD 2x12 loaded with two 50 watt Weber ceramic Blue/ silver speakers and it ROCKS!! so I think with your cut and ( i'm assuming you have the celestion lead 80's still in yours) the original speakers it should sound good... I wouldn't hesitate to try some different speakers in one of those cabs...even the blues.. I LOVE that THD 2x12 cab ( easy to pick up too) and then you could just swap around speakers to your liking... might even find a happy medium with a speaker that your flexi and the Stingray both likes... I really, really like that cab/ speakers with it and also the 16 ohm with alnico blue/silver I got from Madison... hey my THD cab is black and wheat... I bet YOURS is too... and the head you just got is BLACK and TAN just like Madisons.... Madison puts his on his 1x12 BlacK and Wheat cab and it matches pretty well... coinsidence.... I think not. ;D Jason Yeah, I have two of those THD 2x12 cabs here, and they are both equipped with the THD designed Eminence speakers labeled Vintage and Longhorn. They aren't the treated Lead 80's any more. But they sound pretty darn good with the Flexi. So yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking too, is try those first. But as good as those cabs look, a matching Z cab would sure look nice under that 'ray!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2006 23:11:01 GMT -7
If you go the Z cab route, Alnico Blues all the way baby! Though you might want to try a Weber 15 watt Bluedog/silverbell combination.
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Post by billyguitar on Apr 19, 2006 5:13:48 GMT -7
I think if I was going to try the Alnico Blue route I'd see if Webers are cheaper to recone and go that route. I've got a Korg AC/30 reissue with blues that I'm having a hard time selling. I don't know if it's the Blues or the AC/30 that sound so good. When I get my Stangray I'm going to a/b the 2x10 cab against the blues and against the greenbacks in my Bluesbreaker reissue. That's still be a couple of months away before I can do it.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 19, 2006 7:48:26 GMT -7
I think if I was going to try the Alnico Blue route I'd see if Webers are cheaper to recone and go that route. I've got a Korg AC/30 reissue with blues that I'm having a hard time selling. I don't know if it's the Blues or the AC/30 that sound so good. When I get my Stangray I'm going to a/b the 2x10 cab against the blues and against the greenbacks in my Bluesbreaker reissue. That's still be a couple of months away before I can do it. That's kind of what I was hoping someone had done here. Anyone make a comparison test like this already? I know everyone who has the Blues likes them, but has anybody done a comparison?
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Post by Curt on Apr 19, 2006 8:26:25 GMT -7
Steve, The 'ray left one day before I got my Alnico Weber Blue dog, I had bought it for the 'ray so I can not compare for you, but what I can do is tell you how a Z/28 and a MAZ Sr sound with the Alnico as opposed to a V-30, a G-12-H, a Texas heat and a Jensen P-12-Q. The 30 Watt Weber Blue dog is the best sounding speaker with both amps, and my Sewell, so I, with out question, would see loading a 2x12 cab with a pair of Blue dogs for the 'ray. On another note, well actually a question...what would look better... a New 2x12 cab or $1100 in your wallet? Hmmmm... Ps.....2 more dayZzzzzz
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 19, 2006 8:54:42 GMT -7
Steve, The 'ray left one day before I got my Alnico Weber Blue dog, I had bought it for the 'ray so I can not compare for you, but what I can do is tell you how a Z/28 and a MAZ Sr sound with the Alnico as opposed to a V-30, a G-12-H, a Texas heat and a Jensen P-12-Q. The 30 Watt Weber Blue dog is the best sounding speaker with both amps, and my Sewell, so I, with out question, would see loading a 2x12 cab with a pair of Blue dogs for the 'ray. On another note, well actually a question...what would look better... a New 2x12 cab or $1100 in your wallet? Hmmmm... Ps.....2 more dayZzzzzz Curt! Don't be daft! If I don't buy a new cab for the 'ray, you KNOW that $1100 is going toward some OTHER gear! Wallet? Oh, that's that empty thing in my back pocket! ;D
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Post by jwr on Apr 19, 2006 10:30:40 GMT -7
Has anyone given any thought about the new Celestion Gold Speakers with a ray? They are supposed to be a 50 watt version of the blue. I read at avatar that they are going to be available this summer.
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Post by Bill on Apr 19, 2006 10:54:56 GMT -7
Has anyone given any thought about the new Celestion Gold Speakers with a ray? They are supposed to be a 50 watt version of the blue. I read at avatar that they are going to be available this summer. I have, and will be ordering one once available. My alnico Weber 50w blue dog is gonna be hard to top though...but if any speaker can do it, it'll be the Gold IMO.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Apr 19, 2006 11:19:48 GMT -7
The 30 Watt Weber Blue dog is the best sounding speaker with both amps, and my Sewell, so I, with out question, would see loading a 2x12 cab with a pair of Blue dogs for the 'ray. Ditto!! 2x12 cab with 30 Watt Alnico Weber Blue Dogs Sounds Fantastic with the Stingray and even BETTER with My MAZ SR... It is the best overall speaker combination I have heard with the Maz SR!!
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Post by Curt on Apr 19, 2006 11:31:17 GMT -7
That's cool Jason.
On the Celestion Gold, last word was "It'll be a while..." before they will ship....I was jonesin' for one also...but the Weber will be just fine.
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Post by hdahs143 on Apr 19, 2006 13:28:54 GMT -7
The 30 Watt Weber Blue dog is the best sounding speaker with both amps, and my Sewell, so I, with out question, would see loading a 2x12 cab with a pair of Blue dogs for the 'ray. Ditto!! 2x12 cab with 30 Watt Alnico Weber Blue Dogs Sounds Fantastic with the Stingray and even BETTER with My MAZ SR... It is the best overall speaker combination I have heard with the Maz SR!! That just may be the answer to my Stingray/Maz 38 cabinet dillema. And I'm assuming you don't have any worries about cooking the speakers with the Maz 38. Out of curiosity what tonal differences do you hear between this cabinet with the 2-30 watt Alnico Blue Dogs, and the one you bought from Madison with the 50 watt Alnico Blue Dog/ 50 watt Alnico Silver Bell setup? Thanks! Harold
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Apr 19, 2006 23:43:42 GMT -7
Harold, No worries about cooking the two 30 watt webers with the Maz 38 and I've even cranked my RX through it NO problem!! The difference between the cab with the two 30 watt alnico weber bluedogs and the cab with the 50 watt alnico blue/ silver is noticable but slightly exaggerated by the fact that the 50 watters cab is wired 16 ohms and the 30 watters is 8 ohms... other than that, the 50 watters sound a little smoother, with a bit more clean headroom before getting any hair and to me that cab ( because its so smooth and little less mid oriented, little less bite) does NOT sound as loud as the two 30 watt blue cab.... I can REALLY crank my RX into the 50 watters 16 ohm cab! the 30 watt blues are more mids ( but sweet and NOT harsh) and bite than the 50 watters and you can get hair earlier with them especially out of the MAZ 38 but the real cool part to me is that as you crank past the volume point where the hair begins you still get louder...does NOT mush out and is sweeter and just smooths out loudly and stays at that same wonderful pleasing break-up point... The 30 Watt webers can get and ARE REALLY LOUD!! that can be a LOUD cab but not harsh...... sounds AWSOME!! and for the record the ceramics sound great too but are more crisp and tighter and have a little more head room than even the Alnicos... I HAVE to give credit and thank Jayson Chance cause I picked his brains about these speakers before getting them and then HE described them to me. I just decided to try several different ones / ways to use them.... and I'm keeping and using ALL of them... alot of variation available and I can now take two different amps and even FURTHER accentuate the differences of the amps choosing WHICH different cabs I WANT to run them with.... **CASE in point... I LOVE the weber 30 watters as I've said and I think it may be the best speakers for a Maz 38 and for me a Stingray too, PERIOD... *But I've been primarily using the Z-best with the Maz and the 50 watters for the RAY when using those two, they sound great together... *But If I were to run ONLY the RAY OR the MAZ BY ITSELF...30 watt webers... *If I wanted to add the RX ES that would go into the 50 watters cab and then the RAY would go into the Z-best ( which sounds awsome period, but especially in THAT combination) and the Maz would then go into the 50 watt blue/silver ceramics cab ( instead of the 30 watters cab because the 50 watt ceramics futher accent the differences of the three amps in a GOOD way) *Just the RX and the ray/38, would be the RX into the 50 watters cab again and the Ray or 38 into the 30 watt blues.... All the amps sound really nice with any of the cabs... but you can just carve out a different tone using different speakers, and I guess what I'm TRYING to say and show you is that the 30 watt bluedogs are SO BIG and BOLD ( Awesome) that they CAN overshadow another speaker cab in a two amp set up ( depending on the amps) and possibly take away instead of blending because of their sound, in certain instances.... then again in certain instances the Bluedog cab can be the " Vintage 30" to the other cabs " G12-H30" so to speak... perfect match, complimenting each other! I would hope that helps but probably just confused you more.... I wouldn't hesitate to put any of the Webers ( especially the 30 watt bluedogs) in an open back Z cab for my main go to cab for the Maz and/ or the RAY! I do like the 50 watt blue/silver better with the RX ES... and it sounds like alot but I'm usually using 2 amps and 2 cabs A/B'd now and usually the same combinations, but thinkin about throwing in the RX ES or changing a cab for a different sound, maybe for outside instead of inside... and I have had alot of fun trying the different speakers with different amps in various combinations... Sorry so long... Jason
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 20, 2006 8:12:54 GMT -7
All useful info there! I still haven't heard from anyone who actually has the Celestion Alnico Blues >>AND<<< something else to compare against, like a standard Z-Best or any other cab with a V30 or whatever. Just curious here, but maybe no one has all of that. Maybe I'll have to be the guy to give that eval...
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Apr 20, 2006 8:41:18 GMT -7
All useful info there! I still haven't heard from anyone who actually has the Celestion Alnico Blues >>AND<<< something else to compare against, like a standard Z-Best or any other cab with a V30 or whatever. Just curious here, but maybe no one has all of that. Maybe I'll have to be the guy to give that eval... Bentop, I don't have the Celestion blues but I been hearing em every practice and gig since my other guitar player got his Stingray 2x12 combo.... I have also played that amp myself for quite awhile after he got it.... I like the 30 watt Webers bluedogs better. I do like the C. blues however, and they are sounding better and better and still breaking in.... I think after one gig in particular they "shifted" on him alot in sound breaking in and were MUCH better after that... but are still getting better sounding with a little smoother/ warmer sound and retaining the crispness bite/ bag of glass they have.... I feel the same as another player I respect and know feels ( and this player liked the C. BLUES better)... the C. blues may be a little bit, VERY SLIGHTLY more detailed/ crisp than the Webers.... I think the Webers are a slightly warmer and SLIGHTLY less glassy ( bag o glass sounding) than the C. Blues... But it's hard to tell cause I also think they break in at different rates AND one is 15 watts and one is 30 watts so theres a difference because of that??? I think the amp and what YOUR going for will make all the difference as to which you may prefer to use.... as for the 50 watt celestion blue thats coming out... I'd love to hear it but thats a big difference in watts/ headroom and I would bet money that it'll be a great speaker but it's just not gonna sound quite the same as the 15 watt blue....if ya WANT the exact celestion blue sound... I think ya gotta get the celestion blue.... kinda like with the Z amps... it's Not a fender/ vox/ marshall, some of those sounds may be strongly in a Z amp somewhere but it's a Z amp with it's own GREAT sound. AND I'D LOVE to hear some of your thoughts on these speakers if some of you guy's get em/try em after they break in good cause it's SO HARD to describe/ put your finger on these BEAUTIFUL sounds.... like trying to verbally describe a painting by a master like Claude Monet?!! ya just gotta see it.... ;D Jason
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Post by billyguitar on Apr 20, 2006 8:57:51 GMT -7
I think as much as the 50 watt Celestion is going to cost I'd rather spend the money on an american speaker like Weber VST.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 20, 2006 9:21:35 GMT -7
All useful info there! I still haven't heard from anyone who actually has the Celestion Alnico Blues >>AND<<< something else to compare against, like a standard Z-Best or any other cab with a V30 or whatever. Just curious here, but maybe no one has all of that. Maybe I'll have to be the guy to give that eval... Bentop, I don't have the Celestion blues but I been hearing em every practice and gig since my other guitar player got his Stingray 2x12 combo.... I have also played that amp myself for quite awhile after he got it.... I like the 30 watt Webers bluedogs better. I do like the C. blues however, and they are sounding better and better and still breaking in.... I think after one gig in particular they "shifted" on him alot in sound breaking in and were MUCH better after that... but are still getting better sounding with a little smoother/ warmer sound and retaining the crispness bite/ bag of glass they have.... I feel the same as another player I respect and know feels ( and this player liked the C. BLUES better)... the C. blues may be a little bit, VERY SLIGHTLY more detailed/ crisp than the Webers.... I think the Webers are a slightly warmer and SLIGHTLY less glassy ( bag o glass sounding) than the C. Blues... But it's hard to tell cause I also think they break in at different rates AND one is 15 watts and one is 30 watts so theres a difference because of that??? I think the amp and what YOUR going for will make all the difference as to which you may prefer to use.... as for the 50 watt celestion blue thats coming out... I'd love to hear it but thats a big difference in watts/ headroom and I would bet money that it'll be a great speaker but it's just not gonna sound quite the same as the 15 watt blue....if ya WANT the exact celestion blue sound... I think ya gotta get the celestion blue.... kinda like with the Z amps... it's Not a fender/ vox/ marshall, some of those sounds may be strongly in a Z amp somewhere but it's a Z amp with it's own GREAT sound. AND I'D LOVE to hear some of your thoughts on these speakers if some of you guy's get em/try em after they break in good cause it's SO HARD to describe/ put your finger on these BEAUTIFUL sounds.... like trying to verbally describe a painting by a master like Claude Monet?!! ya just gotta see it.... ;D Jason Thanks Jason, that is very useful. I think your description of "bag of glass" just about nails what it is I'm looking for - you may have unwittingly helped me decide to go for the Celestions. I have a pair of 50 W Weber Ceramic Blue Dogs here, and when they started breaking in on the Mazerati, I thought they got too "warm" - the top edge just disappeared. With the right amp that would be a wonderful thing, but it wasn't on the Mazerati because I had no way to dial up any compensation. Those speaks even sounded too warm for my Flexi-50 which can put out punishing levels of high end. So I've been a little gun shy about the Blue Dogs. However, I will admit, these are 50 watters AND ceramic, quite a different speaker than the 30 watt Alnicos, I'm sure. Still, the Stingray was more or less designed with the Celestions I think - I see two terms - Vox Blues, and Celestion Blues - I wonder if that's the same speaker? Must be... Anyway, as I said, your description of a "bag of glass" just nails what I hear in my head with regard to this amp and the tones I want to get from it. Thanks for the long post, and karma to you bud!
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Post by billyguitar on Apr 20, 2006 10:24:07 GMT -7
I'm sure Vox Blues and Celestion Blues would be the same. I didn't want to go with Blues because I like a lot of lower mids and I'm sure they wouldn't do that very well. You know, the typical jazz sound but with a little more top end. The Tone Tubby does that well but I'm positive it's got a stronger cone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2006 10:37:45 GMT -7
The Vox or celestion blues(samething will do exactly that Steve. Lovely glassy top end. I have had the pleasure of ABing a open back 212 Z cab with 50watt weber Blues dog/Silverbell combo and they are great too. Thery are definitely smoother than the Celestions. The celestions though have a deeper 3-d quality. It could be simply that the celestions are a 15watt speaker and the webers are a 50 watt, don't know but I like them a lot. The celestions have a bit more snot at lower volumes, while the webers stay smooth and then breakup. Billy you can get beautiful jazz tones with the Celestion blues. The tone knob and cut knob on the Ray are unbelievably versatile. Again set the tone knob for the fullness or fatness you want, then add in the cut kob for the right amount of treble brilliance. If you leave it low you can get great jazz tones with out rolling off your tone controls. You can set it for a standard clean sound as well and do the tone roll off thing but I was amazed how much better setting the Stingray that way was for Jazz tones.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 20, 2006 11:07:55 GMT -7
The Vox or celestion blues(samething will do exactly that Steve. Lovely glassy top end. I have had the pleasure of ABing a open back 212 Z cab with 50watt weber Blues dog/Silverbell combo and they are great too. Thery are definitely smoother than the Celestions. The celestions though have a deeper 3-d quality. It could be simply that the celestions are a 15watt speaker and the webers are a 50 watt, don't know but I like them a lot. The celestions have a bit more snot at lower volumes, while the webers stay smooth and them breakup. Billy you can get beautiful jazz tones with the Celestion blues. The tone knob and cut knob on the Ray are unbelievably versatile. Again set the tone knob for the fullness or fatness you want, then add in the cut kob for the right amount of treble brilliance. If you leave it low you can get great jazz tones with out rolling off your tone controls. You can set it for a standard clean sound as well and do the tone roll off thing but I was amazed how much better setting the Stingray that way was for Jazz tones. Thanks Billy and Arun - you guys really are giving me the info I need. Karma for both of you (as soon as my karma menu comes back twice... )
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2006 12:15:44 GMT -7
So Steve, have you made any head way with the type of speaker you are going to go with?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 21, 2006 12:41:55 GMT -7
So Steve, have you made any head way with the type of speaker you are going to go with? You know, I have. After my Stingray gets here, I'm going to order a matching 2x12 open back with Celestion Blues. The ONLY detail I haven't quite worked out is what color the grill clothe needs to be. I did some playing in Photoshop to see what it would look like with the brown that I had on my Mazerati, and with the black/white peppered cloth. To be honest, it's hard to tell without an actual picture of a cab - wish someone here had a pic of a black tolex 2x12 with that cream front board so I could see what the Doc chose... Hey, maybe there is one here - I'll scan all the threads and see if I can come up with one. By the way, you finally got your karma from yesterday... I forgot till you posted here!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2006 12:59:51 GMT -7
I think a black cab with the Tan cloth would look righteous! ;D Brown would look good but won't match the front panel as well. Some Karma back at ya.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 21, 2006 13:01:26 GMT -7
I think a black cab with the Tan cloth would look righteous! ;D Brown would look good but won't match the front panel as well. Some Karma back at ya. Thanks Arun, wish I could see a pic of that combo before I pay my money...
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Apr 21, 2006 14:56:39 GMT -7
I think a black cab with the Tan cloth would look righteous! ;D Brown would look good but won't match the front panel as well. Some Karma back at ya. Thanks Arun, wish I could see a pic of that combo before I pay my money... Bentop, I've seen a Black cab w/ TAN front somewhere and I think it had that TAN grille material ( real light brownish tan salt n pepper that Doc calls TAN) I've got a Black with that tan grille material on my RX ES and I think THAT combo looks/ WOULD look sweet.... I'm ALMOST sure I saved a picture of it and have it on my computer at home... If I can find the picture I'll post it on here and/ or send you a PM with the post just to make sure you get it.... ;D Jason
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 21, 2006 15:49:43 GMT -7
Thanks Arun, wish I could see a pic of that combo before I pay my money... Bentop, I've seen a Black cab w/ TAN front somewhere and I think it had that TAN grille material ( real light brownish tan salt n pepper that Doc calls TAN) I've got a Black with that tan grille material on my RX ES and I think THAT combo looks/ WOULD look sweet.... I'm ALMOST sure I saved a picture of it and have it on my computer at home... If I can find the picture I'll post it on here and/ or send you a PM with the post just to make sure you get it.... ;D Jason Thanks! I remember my reaction when I saw the very first head/cab Stingray - my thought was "WOW!" But that one was the Red/Creme/ and it is hard to tell on those pics what color that grille cloth really is. But I want mine to have the "wow" factor!
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