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Post by pedalcr8z on Mar 2, 2006 7:24:27 GMT -7
.........is the SR too much amp for home use ONLY vs the Maz Jr nr that I am absolutely enthralled with? How's the SR at low volume settings, is it as good as the MJ at low settings or does it not come into it's own until it's cranked?
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 6, 2006 11:58:59 GMT -7
Hifivic, I have had both and now use a STINGRAY... I wouldn't say that it is too much amp for home use cause it sounds REAL nice ( wonderful) at lower volumes ( kinda like the carmen ghia that way but it's gonna be REAL clean) it has ALOT more clean headroom that the Maz JR does and is just plain louder and cleaner overall.... to get any hair on it, yes it needs to be cranked up pretty good... but takes pedals real well and also may be a little different in it's reaction to pedals than other Z's in that respect... ( I had a tendency not to use pedals as much with my Maz JR as opposed to the stingray= which I'm loving it's reaction to the pedals... ) but for home use I'm using the ghia now which I have found has also replaced the sound I liked from the Maz JR plus a whole lot more I feel the JR couldn't get.... however, I like the Jr over the ghia for it's clean headroom ( but now I have the Maz SR or the Stingray for the clean headroom) and the JR maybe a little louder overall than the ghia.... What are you looking for... more headroom... louder amp... If you love the Maz JR I would just keep that ( I loved my Maz JR just needed more clean headroom thus my Maz SR)... the stingrays a real different amp sonically than the Maz JR... But I also think the SR is bit different sonically than the JR... I would say the stingray could touch a little on what the Maz SR can do ( big and clean w/ little hair) and is capable of, closer than touching on what the Maz JR does well.... hope that helps some... Jason
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Post by pedalcr8z on Mar 6, 2006 12:50:21 GMT -7
Thanks Jason. I decided to do the Maz Jr nr and I'm incredibly happy with it. I feel it's much clearer than the verb model and has a bit more gain. I may add a Ghia 2x10 to the stable.
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Post by guitarman1 on Mar 6, 2006 13:13:49 GMT -7
Hifivic, I have had both and now use a STINGRAY... I wouldn't say that it is too much amp for home use cause it sounds REAL nice ( wonderful) at lower volumes ( kinda like the carmen ghia that way but it's gonna be REAL clean) it has ALOT more clean headroom that the Maz JR does and is just plain louder and cleaner overall.... to get any hair on it, yes it needs to be cranked up pretty good... but takes pedals real well and also may be a little different in it's reaction to pedals than other Z's in that respect... ( I had a tendency not to use pedals as much with my Maz JR as opposed to the stingray= which I'm loving it's reaction to the pedals... ) but for home use I'm using the ghia now which I have found has also replaced the sound I liked from the Maz JR plus a whole lot more I feel the JR couldn't get.... however, I like the Jr over the ghia for it's clean headroom ( but now I have the Maz SR or the Stingray for the clean headroom) and the JR maybe a little louder overall than the ghia.... What are you looking for... more headroom... louder amp... If you love the Maz JR I would just keep that ( I loved my Maz JR just needed more clean headroom thus my Maz SR)... the stingrays a real different amp sonically than the Maz JR... But I also think the SR is bit different sonically than the JR... I would say the stingray could touch a little on what the Maz SR can do ( big and clean w/ little hair) and is cabable of, closer than touching on what the Maz JR does well.... hope that helps some... Jason Jason....please describe your thoughts on the sonic differences of a Maz Sr. compared to the Stingray.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 6, 2006 15:17:59 GMT -7
Guitarman1, I'm not Jason but I do own one of the first Stingrays, bought a MAZ Jr about a week later, after extensively testing it against a MAZ Sr (which I'm now in the process of ordering). I played both through a Z-Best 2x12. I love all three amps, but they are all very different. What Jason said is right on the money. I'll add this: I've read where people say that the Sr isn't twice as loud as the Jr even though it has twice the output tubes. I know the electrical theory behind this statement, but when I played the two back-to-back I swore that the Sr was indeed twice as loud as the Jr. The Sr is one seriously loud, strong amp. Myles has said that it's output falls between a Super Reverb and a Twin Reverb. My gut instinct tells me that through a Z-Best 2X12 it's every bit as loud as a Twin. It's also fuller in the mids, more harmonically complex, more touch sensitive, versatile, and has a better low end than any Twin Reverb I've ever played. To answer your question, the master on the Sr works really well; just like the Jr's. However, I still feel that to get the tone I like, it's too loud for home use. That's why I bought the Jr (which to my ears sounds nothing like the Sr). However, I couldn't get the Sr experience out of my head. I love my Jr and will never sell it, but the sound and feel I experienced with the Sr bounced around in my head until I had to order one. For me, it comes down to this. The Jr is a great, "crankable" aggressive little sucker, with a versatile control set. The Sr is a lush, sophisticated, loud, complex, beautiful amp with a versatile control set that gets a great lush overdrive when cranked. The Stingray is the most beautiful, touch sensitive, harmonically complex amp I have ever played. It takes pedals even better than the MAZ's, and the "simple" control scheme is surprisingly versatile. The lows are similar to the Sr but the midrange is even more complex and Voxy. The Sr. can cop some Fender and Marshall sounds but the Stingray is all about Vox based Z tone. As Jason said, the Stingray is one of the best amps Z makes at low volumes, but even at 9:00 on the volume control (with two Celestion Blues), plugged into the low input it's loud enough to make the wife and kids yell for you to turn it down.
PDW
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 6, 2006 21:54:44 GMT -7
OK... here goes.... ......" I love all three amps, but they are all very different" (re: Maz SR, Stingray and Maz JR) yep!......." The Stingray is the most beautiful, touch sensitive, harmonically complex amp I have ever played. It takes pedals even better than the MAZ's, and the "simple" control scheme is surprisingly versatile. The lows are similar to the Sr but the midrange is even more complex and Voxy. The Sr. can cop some Fender and Marshall sounds but the Stingray is all about Vox based Z tone. " yep... vox based especially with the celestion blues... little less voxy with other speakers.... stingrays very glassy... immediate feeling/ very articulate... good comparison between Maz SR and Stingray pdw. ......" even at 9:00 on the volume control (with two Celestion Blues), plugged into the low input it's loud enough to make the wife and kids yell for you to turn it down. " with 2 selestion blues.... oh yes! loud! guitarman1, I couldn't have answered your question or described it any better than PDW did... and I also had a hard time deciding whether I needed to get the stingray as my main amp was the Maz SR.... NOW I think they are both my main amps.... and they are different... ......" I played both through a Z-Best 2x12." IMPORTANT NOTE!!! MYLES has said that the stingray is VERY responsive to changes with the tubes, maybe even more so than with other Z's... IT IS ALSO VERY RESPONSIVE TO CHANGING THE SPEAKERS and I LIKE SEVERAL OF THE CHANGES I'VE HEARD!!! I have been playing MY stingray head with various cabs but I played the other guitar player in my bands NEW stingray 2x12 combo today loaded with celestion blues (THIS COMBO IS ALL VOX!!!)... I kinda knew what everybody was talkin about regarding the vox blues and after hearing it... it is great for some ( I kinda liked the sound myself but is still not MY favorite speaker or speaker combination for the stingray so far) and as some may not like this sound out of THIS amp AS MUCH: others will absolutley kill for it..... may be the tele players chickin pickin dream... But with different speakers this amp will do more... The Stingray had much more HAIR on it in the combo with the celestion blue ( 15 watt) speakers. than any other speakers and was pretty bright... the 30 watt webers had some hair ( a little less) and little more clean and warmth... the 50 watt webers in either ceramic ( not much hair at all, big CLEAN sound) or alnico ( a slight bit more hair than the ceramics and smooth) were BOTH big and CLEAN... and lot less hair than the Maz SR can get with those 2 sets of 50 watt speakers.... and with the Z-best the stingray was just HUGE and could have some hair it!!! THE Z-BEST MAKES EVERYTHING LOUDER.... JR, SR, and the Stingray sounds amazing through it AND very different through it than through the vox blues (I LOVE THE STINGRAY THROUGH THE Z-BEST!) I played the Stingray through MY new / Madisons old cab (thanks again Bill which is a 2x12 open back Z cab with webber 50 watt alnico blue/silver @ 16 ohms... THIS CAB IS AWSOME and very different than a z-best OR the 2 celestion blue combo of speakers.... I found through this cab that the stingray, the Maz SR or the RX ES did not seem AS LOUD as they were with the Z-best or 2x12 w/ celestion blue's... less break-up, more headroom, smooth and sweet.... you could drive the amp a little more with this cab... my new favorite cab to use WITH the Z-best for 2 amps!!! Speakers can REALLY make a difference especially on the stingray (as TUBES can too)... I would Recommend the Head version for anyone wanting less of the vox sound and maybe closer to a Maz Sr/ more traditional Z sound (but it's still different) or to someone unsure of which speakers to use as you could experiment more with a head/cab... I also like the stingray through ceramic 50 watt blue silver speakers AND through my Weber 30 watt alnico Blue 2x12 ( close to the celestion blues but I like the webers a little more, little warmer and didn't break up as fast as the celestions did, w/ a better/ tighter bottom... but the celestion blues DID THEIR THANG, just not quite MY thang... I would actually REALLY liked the celestion blues or/ lower wattage webers better with the Maz Sr but ALL OF THIS IS JUST MY PREFERENCE.) the Stingray IS LOUD but the MAZ SR IS LOUDER.... and with different speakers you can really play with the headroom or help control/ subdue the overall volume.... the only real way to get the difference is to play one... it's extremely hard to describe.... AND you need to play a Z amp WITH your band cause thats where it's gonna SHINE!!! it's great if you can play one at a shop but not the same as w/ a band.... they just blend so well with other amps ( other Z's or other brands) and cut through the mix at the same time... I feel I could still use my Maz Sr w/ a Z-best and thats all.... but I feel like I could also use only the stingray too... they are BOTH just GREAT AMPS!!! Jason
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 7, 2006 5:02:24 GMT -7
Jason, Great comments on the amps (as always!). I'd just like to add to my previous comments that I've tried the Stingray with my Dr. Z 2X10" cabinet and my Z-Best 2X12 (V30/12GH30). I'm one of those guys that loves the Vox sound of the Stingray through my 2X12" open back with 15W Celestion Blues. I love my other Z amps through the Z-best, but I don't like the Stingray with it. I think the reason has to do with the lighter cones in the Celestion Blues; it brings out the immediate feeling/ articulation you mentioned. I miss that with the Z-Best. Do you think that the Maz SR through a Z-Best is louder than a Stingray through an open back 2X12 with Celestion Blues? The 'Ray/Blues is pretty loud.....
PDW
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 7, 2006 6:36:08 GMT -7
So how was it with the 2-10? ?
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 7, 2006 7:07:31 GMT -7
PDW, Thanks for the kind remarks, I sometimes wonder why or if anybody would read my ramblings...... I should mention that MY Z-best now has a 50 watt alnico weber silver bell in the top (instead of the V30) and the G12 h30 in the bottom.... and I am very familiar with the the original set up of the V30/ G12 and loved it with the MAZ SR AND RX.... I had already changed the V30 to the weber by the time I got the stingray so there's the difference we're hearing.... I would assume the weber smooths out the highs and mids (compresses) with the stingray and all those beautiful mids probably doesn't like the V-30 in the Z-best that much... IMHO the open back cab celestion blue combo was the LOUDEST of all the cabs with the stingray?? 15 watt speakers but the thing sounds tremendous and I can SEE where some folks will (and why you do) just LOVE that sound.... I personally like more clean headroom before break-up thus the higher wattage alnico's are my cup of tea.... I just don't want somebody to dismiss this amp simply because of one sound they hear just trying it with the 15 watt celestion blues in a guitar shop and JUST think VOX.... cause if they have a head they could use higher wattage webers, tonkers, etc.. for a different sound that I'm LIKING... OR the flip side... don't want somebody to hear a head through one of the other mentioned speakers or a stock Z-best and NOT understand what those celestion Blues can do if they are looking for that voxy type sound thang... It does sound like they TUNED this amp with it's voicing and it's mids to THOSE speakers but I still love it through MY stuff ( and again just my preference).... " Do you think that the Maz SR through a Z-Best is louder than a Stingray through an open back 2X12 with Celestion Blues? The 'Ray/Blues is pretty loud....." Yes, especially with the STOCK Z-best ( I should've mentioned that mine is not stock in my previous half incoherant babble-ings but what can I say....I'm an idiot... ) ;D but it's not that much louder than the stingray with the Blues... to me the Maz SR is a slightly louder amp, but I still feel regardless of the speakers.... if you use them through the same set of speakers the Maz Sr is louder and slightly compressed but still big and open, the Stingray is NOT compressed, really loud, but at a level just slightly under the MAZ SR... and the Maz JR's level is under the stingray but compresses the most sonically.... I also use the High input in the stingray as it really just sounds like a volume change to me as opposed to the LOW input I use in the Maz SR and the RX ES that I really feel also changes some of the dynamics of those amps by changing inputs.... This is ALL MHO using the stock tubes from the stingray (w/ Dario EF-86) NOW MYLES WILL FINISH his blueprinting and come out saying to use this tube in V1 or that tube in V2 etc.. etc and REALLY be able to change some things and taylor this amp to suit slightly different tastes.... I would like to get NOS mullard ef-86's for BOTH my RX ES and my Stingray... I think that would make a tremendous difference that I would like also.... maybe nos rectifiers too.... ? it never ends.... gas Jason Yes, How was it through the 2X10... I'm gonna try it through my 2x10's in the ghia today... only one I haven't gotten around to playing yet... I start playing it with madisons old cab and I can't stop.. it's like playing the ghia it's addictive.... ....lets see I've got madisons old cab, laroosco's old RX, if I could just get PEACH'S green ghia head... ( just kidding peach...)
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 7, 2006 11:33:54 GMT -7
Jason, One more comment on the volume of the Z's. When I tested the Jr's and Sr's a couple of weeks ago, I was actually making the drive to the dealer thinking I was going to be trying, loving, and buying the RxES. I had not been able to play one previously, and the curiosity was getting the better of me. Trying the MAZ's was secondary. When I played the RxES in person, also through the Z-Best, I was immediately struck by two powerful feelings. (Volume at 9:00, Overdose ON). First, this is one of the all time great amps- right up there with the Stingray. Second, unless I'm playing Madison Square Garden with no PA I'll never be able to use this thing!! It struck me as about as loud as the MAZ 38 with a cranked booster pedal in front. I hadn't felt that kind of power since I last played a 100W Marshall stack! I'll bet a Weber in a 1X12 would have tamed it down a little, but wow! That's a strong, strong amp.
PDW
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Post by teleking36 on Mar 7, 2006 11:44:11 GMT -7
PDW, I'm on the verge of ordering either a Stingray/Mantaray or an RX ES. I have a ZBest with V30/G12h30 and I'm also really interested in swapping the V30 out for a Weber silver bell. What do you think I could expect for a sound difference between these two amps, with or without the speaker change? Anyone else please chime in
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2006 12:16:18 GMT -7
Hi Teleking36, the stingray is a pre top boost ac-30/4 but better. It is cleaner in sound to me than my RXES which is a agressive vox meets marshall kind of amp. The stingray has a very complex and rich clean sound. It gets a little hair when it is cranked but does not really distort. It does distort how ever with a good boost. I have a BSM RM boost which is a clone of the rangemaster and it sounds amazing with the stingray. The RXES gets a lot more hair when cranked and can get a great drive after 1:00 on the dial and onwards. Getting meaner as you crank it. The overdose switch will send it further into melt down. It can also do that with the volume set earlier so when you engage the overdose it sends the amp in to drive. It also has beautiful clean sounds but it is not as rich as the Stingray. It would be like the cleans of a great blackface fender compared to the cleans of a class A vox ac-30. The RXES does not nesccesarly sounds like a blackface fender but can cop the sound of my 66 fender deluxe only louder! ;D I love both amps so I would be hard pressed to pick between the two. If you have to pick one I would ask what do you need in an amp right now? If you need a rocking, loud, agressive amp with the ability to do great fat cleans as well, the RXES would be my choice. If you want a beautiful, lush, complex clean sound and are going to use pedals to give you all the shades of drive you need, the Stingray might be the ticket. Just remember that the RXES can be a LOUD amplifier. As far as the silver bell is concerned you are going to get less of the harsh top end the V-30 has. You will get more sparkle and a rounder bottom end. Also a little more compression if you go with the Alnico silver bell instead of the ceramic. Hope this helps.
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Post by Bill on Mar 7, 2006 12:30:27 GMT -7
Just remember that the RXES can be a LOUD amplifier. I can vouch for that. A couple nights ago, I was A/B'ing the 'ray & RxES for sheer volume. Had the RxES at 9:00 with the overdose on thumping away, when the door flew open and my wife is screaming at me, "How LOUD do you have to play that thing!!!". She said it was rattling the dishes downstairs in the kitchen. And this was only through an alnico 1x12. ;D
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 7, 2006 12:56:58 GMT -7
PDW... the RX is the main reason WHY I got my AIR BREAK!! lol and I don't use the overdose AT ALL.... plugging it in the low input and dialing in the ORIGINAL RX's sound ( I set the original @ about 2:00-2:30 with expand AND bright both on, but can get the same sound with the ES at about 11:00-12:00) and at a lower volume which is neat... but I still need an airbreak with that sucker unless outside unmiked... yea, the RX ES (or original strength) CAN flat out ROAR!!! teleking... I really liked the original stock Z-best... and I highly reccomend it... but I love mine ever since I put the 50 watt weber alnico silver in it..... it's just different on the high end compressing more and in the mids (not as bright or harsh with a great tight bottom combined with the G12-H30 and I like the alnico/ ceramic speaker mix it has.... aruntang described it very well for you... and he's right, need to know what YOUR looking for or needing out of the amp.... OVERALL for alot of folks I still think the MAZ SR ( or maybe the JR) is the best "overall" 1st Z amp of choice ( and frankly I could see the MAZ SR being the 1st and last amp alot of guy's would ever need)... I think alot of guy's new to DR Z amps might need to start with the MAZ unless they can play the ones they are looking into getting at a shop somewhere (which often is not possible)....cause some of the other Z's are soooo different than guy's are used to... then again if the vox sound is what you like then the Stingray should knock your socks off... and if you LIKE DR Z's already I don't see how you couldn't like the Stingray really... the RX IS LOUD!!!! in a british accent.... " It goes to eleven"
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Post by teleking36 on Mar 7, 2006 16:25:29 GMT -7
wow, thanks guys for all the input!
as of now i've got a pretty good pedal setup. i'm pretty simple and use just basic stuff:
fulltone ocd (early) timmy SPF I-5 delay Dreamtone Sexy Vibes TU-2 tuner
sometimes a compressor is thrown in there, but i figure with one of these, and especially the stingray, i won't need the pedal.
i would consider myself to be a fairly good player as far as versatility goes. i play anything from rock to blues, but focus mainly on roots-rock, alt-country stuff, similar to Ryan Adams, Counting Crows, Wallflowers, Tom Petty. With the pedals i have now i guess i wouldn't need something aggressive, so the stingray might be a better fit for me. i've always been a fan of the EL84 sound, and moreso with Voxes, although i've never owned one (played many!).
i would most likely get the alnico silver bell to replace the V30, as it seems you guys think the silver bell and the g12h30 are a great match. i also want to take away from the harshness and smooth out the top end. this is probably a go for me.
i think i'll end up going with the Stingray, although i know i really can't go wrong with any of the Dr.'s amps!
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 7, 2006 16:55:44 GMT -7
You guys pretty much said it all, very well! The RxES "experience" is a fun, visceral, loud, and room shaking. I love my Stingray; I think it's the best sounding, feeling, you name it amp I've ever had the pleasure of playing. Having said that, I'll agree with Jason that the MAZ 38 (NR for me, please) would be for many people the only amp you'll ever need. It's only weakness may be that to get a lot of natural overdrive it has to be cranked, and when you do that its *loud*. That's why a lot of guys like Jayson Chance (and soon me!) own both a MAZ Jr. and Sr.
PDW
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Post by guitarman1 on Mar 8, 2006 11:38:00 GMT -7
Thanks for all of the details and help Jason & pdw. This is really valuable stuff for me. If I buy a Stingray, I'll probably not be able to play it before purchasing, as the closest dealer is 7 hours away. Your input helps me make a better educated decision. Jason...I do read all of your stuff! Keep it comin'! Karma for both of you.
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 8, 2006 11:52:49 GMT -7
Au contraire, pdw! (smile) The Maz 38 just needs the preamp goosed for as much gain as you want, all with the master volume wherever it needs to be.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 8, 2006 15:05:08 GMT -7
Billy, I might have spoke too soon. What would you recommend to goose the front end of a MAZ 38? I did not try it with any pedals at the store, and mine won't arrive for a few weeks. I might have a few (*ahem.. cough cough) boxes around here that might work in front of a 38. PDW owner of a Xotic AC,RC,BB, Zvex SHO, Klon, Beano, Zendrive, Red Snapper, Fulldrive II, Tone Pump, Burn Unit, KOT, etc......
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 8, 2006 15:18:15 GMT -7
" PDW owner of a Xotic AC,RC,BB, Zvex SHO, Klon, Beano, Zendrive, Red Snapper, Fulldrive II, Tone Pump, Burn Unit, KOT, etc...... " That'll work....
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 8, 2006 15:19:00 GMT -7
Look at that list of pedals! I don't do high gain so I don't own a booster. I did try it with a compressor, compression low, volume high. T'was happenin'! I'm still on the list for a KOT. I don't what's up with that. It's been so long I forget about it.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 9, 2006 4:47:04 GMT -7
Billy, I said that I *own* a lot of boost/OD pedals... that doesn't mean that I use them a lot! I prefer to put the absolute minimum "stuff" between me and my Z's. I always use a Fulltone TTE on the cleaner stuff. The boost/OD pedals that see a lot of action are the AC Boost with the Ghia, a SHO with everything, the Analogman Juicer with everything, and the Zendrive. The KOT is a good pedal for sure. I had to open her up and crank up the internal "bright" trimmer, though. Be sure you try that when you get yours. I use mine for more of a clean boost or boost on the edge of breakup.
PDW
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