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Post by fishbeiner on Mar 16, 2015 20:51:11 GMT -7
So, a few weeks ago I plannes on picking up a Therapy setup here on the forum, until some unforeseen circumstances quickly put the kibosh on those plans. I have to admit, I was extremely disappointed. I had been sucked into the allure of the Therapy; the clips, the threads, and the great reviews. I was in reach of finally owning one, and POOF! Like that it was gone... Two weeks later, my super awesome goddess of a wife, seeing how disappointed I was, made a deal with me to pick up a new one, with a matching convertible cab (Creamback), in the exact color scheme I wanted, from the guys at Humbucker. So here, in all of my excitement, and without further adieu, I introduce you guys to my newest acquisition: I have, however, run into a dilemma. I have been looking at all of your threads, checking out your settings with the Volume up between 1 and 3 o'clock, some even full up. I can't put my Volume up past 10/10:30 without getting this fizzy sounding overtone. I can almost dial it out, but the Middle and Treble need to basically be off. It seems easier to hear with the Master down low, but in general, the position of the master doesn't make a difference. I play a '97 Deluxe Plus Strat with Lace Sensor pickups (red-bridge, silver-middle, blue-neck), and a PRS Custom 24 (also from 97) with humbuckers. I have tried both guitars, different cables, and different outlets around the apartment with no improvement. The PRS is almost unplayable with the Volume control at 10 because the fizzy sound become overwhelming. With the Strat I can increase the Volume a little bit more, but I would say that somewhere between 11 and 12 o'clock is where the noise becomes distracting. It is a little bit disheartening because I can hear the amps true sound behind the fizz, and THAT is what I'm after. I just wish I had some insight as to course of action. Has anyone else had this issue? I did contact Humbucker and they suggested removing and reseating the preamp tubes a few times to see if oxidation was the culprit, but that process did not clear anything up. Still fizzy. As much as I hate this being my first post in the Therapy section, the thought of having just laid out the funds to pay for the whole setup and having issues has given me some uneasiness. As all of you on this forum have always been helpful and supportive, I'm hoping that this thread will ease some of those feelings and help to work towards resolution.
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Post by rickc007 on Mar 16, 2015 23:02:15 GMT -7
Well, the good news is, with high quality hand wired amps, there aren't a lot of components . So you usually don't have to look too far.
Majority seem to be tube issues, and they are consumables that don't last forever anyway.
First step I'd get a 12ax7 preamp tube, and try it as a replacement in each preamp socket. One finicky little tube can cause a boat load of noise
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Post by nmz on Mar 17, 2015 2:00:00 GMT -7
Very nice rig!
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Post by pcns on Mar 17, 2015 4:20:56 GMT -7
Is the speaker new? It could be something that goes away as the speaker breaks in maybe?
Do you have another cab you can try?
Just something else to consider is all.
Todd
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Post by Stan on Mar 17, 2015 4:59:13 GMT -7
Nice looking, hope your can sort out the fizz.
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Post by zed on Mar 17, 2015 5:21:14 GMT -7
Such a nice look, love that!
I hope that you get it sorted out without much trouble.
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Post by Maddog on Mar 17, 2015 5:34:41 GMT -7
Probably tube related
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Post by iluvpunz on Mar 17, 2015 6:01:42 GMT -7
You mentioned the Creamback speaker. although I absolutely love the Creamback with my Remedy not so much with the Therapy. As others have mentioned you may have a combination of a bad tube and honky speaker. Try turning your master volume up most of the way with the volume off. Then bring the volume up slowly and see if the amp stays pretty clean until around noon on the volume. If you are running the volume high and the master low especially with the Creamback it may seem fizzy. The tone controls are also quite responsive so experimentation is suggested starting with all tone controls set at noon.
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Post by BritInvasion on Mar 17, 2015 6:01:56 GMT -7
I agree it's almost certainly a tube , most likely a pre-amp tube.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 17, 2015 6:36:35 GMT -7
When I got my Maz Jr, it came to me used without speaker (it was a combo). I laid in a supply of about seven brand new speakers, and one by one I put them in. I sat right in front of the amp to test them. I was profoundly disappointed - they all sounded honky, fizzy, ugly. The Celestion Alnico Gold had just come out back then, so I bought one and put that in there. Better, but not perfect. Until it broke in - HOLY SMOKES! Talk about a change. That amp went from problematic to my main gigging amp for several years. I cannot overemphasize that you MUST break in the speaker before judging anything. You'll waste a lot of effort and produce a lot of false grief otherwise. That said, you could have a tube issue as has been stated. I just think it's your speaker.
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Post by Albert on Mar 17, 2015 9:16:43 GMT -7
When I got my Maz Jr, it came to me used without speaker (it was a combo). I laid in a supply of about seven brand new speakers, and one by one I put them in. I sat right in front of the amp to test them. I was profoundly disappointed - they all sounded honky, fizzy, ugly. The Celestion Alnico Gold had just come out back then, so I bought one and put that in there. Better, but not perfect. Until it broke in - HOLY SMOKES! Talk about a change. That amp went from problematic to my main gigging amp for several years. I cannot overemphasize that you MUST break in the speaker before judging anything. You'll waste a lot of effort and produce a lot of false grief otherwise. That said, you could have a tube issue as has been stated. I just think it's your speaker. I agree my cream back sounds great ... having said that I pulled the stock JJ tubes out I don't really care for them I put in some NOS I have in my stash and was much happier with the sound ..
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Post by fishbeiner on Mar 17, 2015 12:41:42 GMT -7
Thanks for all of the replies, fellas.
I'll have to find that speaker break-in thread and get that process underway to see if that alleviates any of the harshness.
I will also look into getting a new set of preamp tubes. I've never personally purchased tubes before (always had someone who would work on the amp take care of the tubes), but would this be something I could do locally, picking up a set from say my local GC? Or, would I be better off ordering them from someone online (recommendations) and wait the few days it would take for shipping?
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Post by simpleton on Mar 17, 2015 12:50:09 GMT -7
Thanks for all of the replies, fellas. I'll have to find that speaker break-in thread and get that process underway to see if that alleviates any of the harshness. I will also look into getting a new set of preamp tubes. I've never personally purchased tubes before (always had someone who would work on the amp take care of the tubes), but would this be something I could do locally, picking up a set from say my local GC? Or, would I be better off ordering them from someone online (recommendations) and wait the few days it would take for shipping? I buy local when possible....you don't have to know much other than what you want to buy as the amp is self biasing.
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Post by Baconator on Mar 17, 2015 12:52:23 GMT -7
I am far, far (did I say far?) from the most experienced guy here when it comes to amps and especially speakers, but I just recently took possession of a new Creamback and although I think it can benefit from a break in it never sounded even close to being fizzy. The only times I've experienced any sort of fizzyness has been when I've had a preamp tube issue. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case. Again, others here have far more experience than I have, but fizzyness to me indicates preamp tube.
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Post by TBox on Mar 17, 2015 14:18:01 GMT -7
Try turning up your Master to around 2 oclock and your gain down to about 9 and treble down a little. The creamback 65 is a good choice. I use the Creamback 75 with mine. No fizz.
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Post by walt on Mar 17, 2015 15:25:42 GMT -7
Good luck.I also recently became a Therapy owner,but had a broken in speaker to jump right in.Give it time,the more I play mine the more I like it.
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Post by BritInvasion on Mar 17, 2015 17:19:26 GMT -7
Thanks for all of the replies, fellas. I'll have to find that speaker break-in thread and get that process underway to see if that alleviates any of the harshness. I will also look into getting a new set of preamp tubes. I've never personally purchased tubes before (always had someone who would work on the amp take care of the tubes), but would this be something I could do locally, picking up a set from say my local GC? Or, would I be better off ordering them from someone online (recommendations) and wait the few days it would take for shipping? You could pick up a 12AX7 at Guitar Center and plug it in starting at V1 and work your way over one at a time. Test each time you put it in a position so you will know which tube was bad, I'll bet it will be the V1 or V2.
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Post by DRZ on Mar 17, 2015 19:06:35 GMT -7
Thanks for all of the replies, fellas. I'll have to find that speaker break-in thread and get that process underway to see if that alleviates any of the harshness. I will also look into getting a new set of preamp tubes. I've never personally purchased tubes before (always had someone who would work on the amp take care of the tubes), but would this be something I could do locally, picking up a set from say my local GC? Or, would I be better off ordering them from someone online (recommendations) and wait the few days it would take for shipping? That is great looking rig you have there. Sorry to hear about your disappointment. Call the shop tomorrow 216 475 1962 ask for Don in the repairs Dept. Let's see if we can suss this issue out.
DR.Z
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Post by djcakadave on Mar 17, 2015 19:53:37 GMT -7
Thanks for all of the replies, fellas. I'll have to find that speaker break-in thread and get that process underway to see if that alleviates any of the harshness. I will also look into getting a new set of preamp tubes. I've never personally purchased tubes before (always had someone who would work on the amp take care of the tubes), but would this be something I could do locally, picking up a set from say my local GC? Or, would I be better off ordering them from someone online (recommendations) and wait the few days it would take for shipping? That is great looking rig you have there. Sorry to hear about your disappointment. Call the shop tomorrow 216 475 1962 ask for Don in the repairs Dept. Let's see if we can suss this issue out.
DR.Z
Someone please tell me what other amp builder does this kind of customer support?
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Post by "Z" Steve on Mar 17, 2015 19:57:26 GMT -7
Olsen? ^^^^ Nope, only this company - Z!
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Post by muzacman02 "Jamie" on Mar 17, 2015 20:33:06 GMT -7
I had a similar situation with my therapy when I first got it..... My Go to Speaker is a GOLD. I had my 1x12 cab at band rehearsal space and my Z 2x12 packed away in its case, long story short, I decided to hook into my BadCat 1x12 combo and use the gold, it was very like you were describing. I tried to use a different guitar the next day same ( I have found that my 1x12 Loaded EVM/L is GLORIOUS Clean to mean . I Have a brand new Cremeback and I'm not a Fan in a single speaker setup and its not broken in either, I also have an original cremeback 12M and I guess I thought it would sound like that? NOPE, Well, The Good folks at the Z Shop will get you straight for sure so don't be disappointed, The THERAPY will have you all 's in no time! Its an AMAZING AMP!!!!!
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Post by fishbeiner on Mar 18, 2015 8:16:43 GMT -7
Thank you all once again for all of your responses. And a big thank you to Dr. Z for his response. This is just one of the reasons why I will be a Z fan for life.
I did get in contact with Don and I will make sure to follow up with him and let you all know how things work out.
I hope nobody has gotten me wrong, as I am fully enamored with my Therapy. Strange as it may be, I can hear the amp behind the fizz, and what I do hear it sounds pretty amazing. I can't wait for it to be 100%.
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Post by detuned on Mar 18, 2015 8:57:57 GMT -7
If, after talking to Don, you're still looking for tubes, try KC NOS tubes, or Doug's Tubes. I believe they're both on the Google.
Quality guys to do business with, as is the Doc!
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Post by bgkyt1 on Mar 18, 2015 16:45:01 GMT -7
I believe the tone stack on that amp is plate-driven rather than cathode-driven. To me it seems more active, and reacts more to where the volume and/or master vol is set. You might have to back off the treble when turning the master or volume up.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Mar 18, 2015 19:21:01 GMT -7
You'll get it sorted out. Z is the best and he stands behind his products. One thing I've never heard from my Therapy was fizz...it's been a sweetheart for me. Good luck with yours!
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Post by simpleton on Mar 18, 2015 20:33:47 GMT -7
I believe the tone stack on that amp is plate-driven rather than cathode-driven. To me it seems more active, and reacts more to where the volume and/or master vol is set. You might have to back off the treble when turning the master or volume up. What does plate driven mean verses cathode? Just curious as I know not what either imply.
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Post by bgkyt1 on Mar 19, 2015 16:44:51 GMT -7
I believe the tone stack on that amp is plate-driven rather than cathode-driven. To me it seems more active, and reacts more to where the volume and/or master vol is set. You might have to back off the treble when turning the master or volume up. What does plate driven mean verses cathode? Just curious as I know not what either imply. I can't explain it as well as others I'm sure, but it refers to which pin of the preamp tube feeds the tone controls. Usually, when it's from the cathode, and there's a Bass,Mid,Treble, an amp might have 3 preamp tubes. The Therapy feeds the tone controls from the plate of the tube. From a technical standpoint, I may be wrong about it's affect on how the tone controls respond to volume changes, but when I play my amp that has that setup, it seems like they are more sensitive.
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Post by fishbeiner on Apr 16, 2015 19:46:30 GMT -7
Apologies for taking so to post an update. Here it is... After an extended time playing the Therapy, I think that any issue has resolved itself. What I realized, is that the Therapy is EXTREMELY dynamic and sensitive to changes of the settings. I also feel that once I started to play it more, some things began to smooth out a bit as well. I had seen a few video clips (I know, never trust youtube) where the users had the master around 8 and the volume maxed, playing humbuckers, and it sounded really great. I figured that I would be able to get the same results, especially considering that I have the same exact guitar as one of the videos. What I found was that is not the case. The Therapy sounds great (clean) at lower volumes, however, I have found that when the master is about 10 o'clock or less, the volume cannot be above 10 o'clock without getting some harsh preamp fizz (the fizz that I had been hearing). When the master is up and the amp is opened up a bit more, the volume can also be turned up, without the fizz. I did spend quite a bit of time trying to record what I was hearing, however, no matter how I set things up, I could not get it to record the fizz that I was hearing. In fact, even though I could hear the fizz at some points, the recordings sounded flawless. I am left with the feeling that this is just the way my amp reacts and I will ultimately have to live with it as is. And perhaps my ears are just too sensitive. Overall, I am very happy with the amp. The tones that come out of it are fantastic. The cleans are brilliant and the overdriven tones are very pleasing. The amp is also very responsive to guitar volume changes which brings the amp to a whole other level. And, when I do get to crank it, it puts an immediate smile on my face.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 16, 2015 20:30:13 GMT -7
That's a great followup!
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Apr 16, 2015 23:46:07 GMT -7
I like your comment about hearing things, but when you record it, it's flawless! That about sums up my years of playing DrZ amps........... I have trained my ears to stop listening for "HiFi" tones and start trusting what the audience hears, which is flawless! (flawless tone that is, not flawless playing!) That's the Doc's secret gift to us all, IMHO. He makes amps for our audiences, not just for us
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