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Post by nolafunk on Oct 9, 2014 9:16:22 GMT -7
First time poster here. Hi.
My question has to do with whether to go for an M12 or the Route 66. I realize they are very different amps - 12 watts v. 32 watts, and more importantly, EL84's v. KT66's. Here's my dilemma. I love the sound of KT66's and I already own a Martone JTM 45 clone. However, I need an amp for smaller bars and clubs, which comprise the lion's share of my gigs, and my Martone is just too much amp for those. And by smaller, I mean places that hold around 40 to 50 people maximum.
Everything I have read about the M12 tells me it has enough volume and "oomph" to be heard in a band setting, and the 12 watts is very appealing for the size of the venues I'm playing. I can drive the amp harder thereby creating a more naturally overdriven sound etc., etc. However, the KT66's of the Route 66 are tonal nirvana for me. So perhaps the question boils down to how versatile is the Route 66? I get that it will handle medium and larger venues with no difficulty, and mic'd it will do well at larger festivals and outdoor events, though I usually use my Martone JTM 45 for those - and I play about 7 or 8 of these kinds of gigs each year - but can it be dialed back without losing its tonal quality to be used at the smaller venues, or would I be better off going with the smaller, less powerful M 12?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by dldtex on Oct 9, 2014 10:39:33 GMT -7
I have owned a Rt 66 but never a M12. I would venture to say that the Doctor's 32 watts will be as loud or louder than your JTM45. You would enjoy the sound and tone but it would be loud. That is the reason I don't have one now. Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 12:28:02 GMT -7
I don't have a Route, but I do have a Z-28, which is a very similar amp at a more manageable 22 watts, driven by 6V6s vs KT66s. Same front end and tone stack, basically. The Z-28 is sufficiently loud that it could easily overpower a 40-50 seat room without attenuation--we're talking two clicks on the old Brakelite, most likely. It's a great amp, though, and with a BL very friendly for small-medium rooms. The M12 opened up a bit, without attenuation and with with a drive pedal pushing it, would be plenty loud in a space that size, assuming your bandmates kept their stage volumes reasonable. I'm told the Route 66 is a loud amp. Wonderful, but loud.
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Post by deltone on Oct 9, 2014 12:36:31 GMT -7
I had a Rt 66 as well. Rt 66 = tone machine x 100! Was too loud for my gigs, but cranked up at home by myself, it was tone heaven. I wish I still had it. Had been passed around a few Z bros--I got it from Curt. Was talked out of it by another Z bro. It definitely had some special mojo. Haven't tried the M12 yet but I'm anxious to. I think it'd be perfect for what I'm currently doing. As far as festival gigs, you can mic anything.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Oct 9, 2014 13:19:34 GMT -7
Not having heard your Martone I can only guess that the Route 66 will be as loud, if not louder than it. I assume the Martone JTM is 45 watts like the 62. I think that the M12 would be better for the smaller venues you are playing. The M12 is also great with pedals so you can get a lot of tones out of it. Do you plan on going somewhere to play a new M12? If so, you might also want to listen to Maz 8 - lot of love for that amp around here as well with a lot of tonal possibilities.
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Post by Stephen on Oct 9, 2014 19:49:16 GMT -7
+ 1 on the Maz 8. Best choice for 40-50 people audience. Plus full EQ, effects loop, and master volume.
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Post by nolafunk on Oct 10, 2014 5:10:02 GMT -7
Thanks to everyone for all the advice. After looking at virtually every Youtube demo of the Maz 8 and the Z-28, I find myself torn. I'm leaning towards the Maz 8, but I want to ask is it really gigable? I would want to run it (or the Z-28) through a 2x12 cab loaded with a Weber SIlver Bell and a Weber Blue Dog. I'm not necessarily looking for clean head room, but I do want to have a little extra volume left over for those of end-of-set songs that collectively get a bit louder than the beginning or middle of the set. Can the Maz 8 do that, or am I going to be more or less maxed on volume through the entire set?
Maybe it would help if I explained myself (and my band) stylistically. My screen name, Nolafunk, is accurate. I'm a big fan of players like June Yamigishi, Brian Stoltz, Pete Murano, and we play in the style of Trombone Shorty, Big Sam's Funky Nation, the Funky Meters, Papa Grows Funk. If you're familiar with this stuff, it's not the classic clean, chimey style of funk. It's a brand of funk that has some overdriven grit to it - in fact, I almost never turn off my Wampler Paisley Drive, though I may dial it down for some songs.
Again, thanks in advance for all your help and wisdom.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 6:05:05 GMT -7
If you have an opportunity to try the M12, I'd highly recommend it. If you never turn off your Paisley drive, it might be a good choice for you. Also, the good old Maz 18 NR studio just kills for small club playing. Plenty of volume for end of set loudness!
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Post by smolder on Oct 10, 2014 8:25:06 GMT -7
I'm on my second M12, own a Z28, and owned a R66 for quite a while. I only sold the R66 and the first M12 because I needed the cash at the time.
I love the EF86 front end and this tone stack. Lot's of similarities between them. Both the R66 and the Z28 have tones more head room... but to make the M12 more versatile I think the doc lowered the plate voltage so there is still plenty of clean. You literally have to push the tone controls past noon or slam the front end with a boost to get it to give up the goods earlier than 2 o'clock (with P90's).
What I like is the extended treble range in the M12, and it's just the right volume level for the kind of venues (read small) I've been playing for the last couple of years. It's a really nice alternative to pair with the Fender/JBL tone. I don't plan on letting the Z28 go, but this M12 is probably going to replace my Carmen Ghia for a while.
I'd love a single ended big bottle (KT66?) with that same front end but I'd guess that it would struggle with the top end treble.
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Post by prspastor on Oct 11, 2014 17:29:19 GMT -7
Route 66 with Brakelite on 2 - 3 clicks would get you in 12 watt territory if you like the KT 66 tone.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 18:26:06 GMT -7
M12 can hang w a drummer a tad better than the MAZ 8.
Also guys have swapped rectifier tubes on the M12 to get a little more natural grind if that's what you are after.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 11:11:06 GMT -7
<sales pitch>I've got a 2008 Route 66 for sale in the BST, if you're interested. Feel free to PM me for details (I'm assuming you don't yet have access to the BST). </sales pitch>
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Post by nolafunk on Oct 13, 2014 10:31:43 GMT -7
My research has taken me on a long odyssey, for sure, and I now find myself trying to decide between a Rt. 66, a Z-28, or a Two Rock Studio Pro 35.
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Post by dldtex on Oct 14, 2014 10:21:22 GMT -7
I have 2 Z28 and as stated before I owned a Route 66. I cannot speak about the Two Rock. I think the Z28 is the most versatile of the two Z's you are looking at. The way the Doctor uses an EF86 in the front end is the coolest thing if want a full spectrum sound and loves the pedals you put in front of it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 12:01:09 GMT -7
I think if you're playing smaller venues then I'd go with the Z-28, for sure. You'll still want a Brakelite, most likely. People seem to dig Two Rock stuff, but dang they're expensive.
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Post by dixiechicken on Oct 16, 2014 4:41:43 GMT -7
DC here! I have the Route66 plus the new 2x10" cab - with removable backplate - wich I usually keep in place. The Route66 is a load amp - when I play outdoor gigs I can take my Weber MiniMass out of the circuit. Indoors I mostly use the MiniMass on various settings depending on the roomsize And yes the Route66 always sounds awesome - Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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