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Post by ssdana on Jul 13, 2014 21:23:47 GMT -7
Hi all!  New community member here; I share the same disease that most of you have (severe GAS), and have been stalking your boards for quite some time..... The voice in my head tells me that it is now time to become a Dr. Z patient. The closest dealers are 2 1/2 hrs away, so "try before I buy" is probably out of the question. From what I have read and clips I've heard, I've narrowed it down to 3 models: Carmen Ghia, M12, or Rx Jr. I own an open-backed Bad Cat 1x12 8 ohm cab with a Bad Cat Celestion speaker that I hope to pair with a Z 1x12 combo amp ideally. I play lead guitar in a band that plays primarily modern country, with some classic rock and a variety of other stuff mixed in. My band and sound guy prefer a low stage volume, so low wattage is a must. I need to cover a large variety of tones and textures, and I like to do this with pedals. I currently play a Tele with Area T 615 & Neck pickups, as well as a Les Paul Studio Pro, into a Vox AC15C2. Here's the pedals that I own to paint sounds with: Xotic SP Comp, RC Boost, EP Boost; Timmy; OCD; WF Rat; Bogner Ecatasy Blue & Red pedals; Line 6 M9. I'm not schizophrenic enough to run them all on my board at once but just wanted to give you guys ideas of what I have for you to work with here.  I'm looking for a gritty, sparkly, transparent, magical clean tone, somewhat similar to my AC15 but with more clarity, punch, and hopefully mojo. The tone in my head sounds like Keith Urban if I had to give an example. Then I should be able to find the right dirt boxes to create the heavier layers. My initial take on the 3 amps I've listed is this: (I should also state that I briefly owned a Maz 18 2x10 a couple years ago, and did not keep it. Maybe it was just that particular amp, but it did not feel magical to me- a bit dry, actually...) Carmen Ghia: sounded fantastic when I heard it used live by another local guy. I can't remember how it reacted with pedals, I think he had a 112 with a Blue in it. If I knew I could achieve the tone I want at the level I need, I'd be totally happy with this one if it enjoyed my pedals. Rx: I've only heard the ES up close, and it was awesome. The guy playing it really used a cleaner tone than I would, and I know he didn't ever get it dirty with pedals. Swirly, fantastic tone though. I like the fact that this amp has a loop, master vol, and built in boost. I would imagine pedals would do well. Tough to find used in a 1x12 though. M12: never heard except in YouTube clips. Sounds sterile compared to the others to my ears, but you guys all rave about this one. And it's supposed to be for pedal guy, who I am. Hmmmmm...... I'm guessing one or any of these Z's will get me there, but which would you pick and why if you've got any experience?? Thank you guys (and girls!) so much and I really look forward to hopefully hearing from some of you! |
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Jul 13, 2014 21:40:21 GMT -7
Welcome to the Forum - lot of good information and great people here. First off, Z amps all love pedals. So that becomes a non-issue for you.
To my way of thinking, the Rx Jr.,probably would come closest to being a good amp for you. Can definitely do modern country. The Rx ES was designed with Brad Paisley - so modern country is no issue. The MV works great.
The M12 was designed with the premise that it was meant to be an amp for the pedal guy. It was to provide a great clean platform for a guy with a lot of pedals - definitely achieved that goal. Not sure about the country thing.
My last choice would be Ghia - I think it would break up a bit early for clean country tones.
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Post by ssdana on Jul 13, 2014 22:15:36 GMT -7
Thanks, Mike!! Cheers from the other side of the state!!(Kalamazoo) Let me know if you know of any Rx's for sale over there! Scott |
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Post by John on Jul 14, 2014 3:58:18 GMT -7
Welcome to the Forum.
You're only going to find a used RxJr.....as the Doc doesn't make them anymore. Any of the amps you mentioned will be fine. They just have slightly different flavors.
Modern Ghias have higher headroom than older ones. I use mine for modern country. Suits me just fine. It CAN be a clean platform...it just depends on how loud do you need to be. (and that's something we cannot answer here.) Use it with an efficient speaker and it can be pretty loud.
If you want more clarity, punch, sparkly, transparent clean tone.....I would suggest getting rid of some of those pedals. There's a LOT of duplication in there. That many pedals is going to suck some tone. (At least 10 pedals?) So many of those are overdrive. There are lots of overdrives in your M9 (I have an M9 too) and the compressors are great! It WILL make a difference. Even if they're true bypass, it will make a difference. I had a pedalboard filled with true bypass pedals, then plugged directly in....I could tell the difference. That M9 is amazing and I would think most of the tones you want/need are in there. Just my 2 cents
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Post by ssdana on Jul 14, 2014 6:25:24 GMT -7
Thanks John!
I don't get to turn it up very loud in my band, so perhaps the Ghia would stay plenty clean enough for me...
And as for my pedals, I don't have them all on my board simultaneously, just what's needed to cover a couple different flavors of dirt and lead tones, in addition to the comp and m9.
I know my quest will not end until I at least try out a Ghia....
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 14, 2014 6:54:16 GMT -7
I'm looking for a gritty, sparkly, transparent, magical clean tone, somewhat similar to my AC15 but with more clarity, punch, and hopefully mojo.
When you said that, my immediate thought was Rx Jr! You just described it exactly! I have had all three that you speak of and they are all great at what they do. IMO, the Rx has more "Vox" in it than the M12 and Ghia. I really like all three of them and had no problems with them fitting in to my sound and cutting through a band mix. I have gigged the Rx Jr as my main amp going on 4 years now. The one thing that I like about the Rx Jr over the other two is the master volume. It's the best master I've used on an amp, better than the Maz, so don't think it's the same at all. It's a completely different design than the Maz's MV. The master on the Rx Jr allows you to dial in some grit/hair/OD, whatever you want to call it, at low volumes if needed. It's perfect for that. Think Paisley here, clean with some hair, very easy to do with the Rx. The Ghia and M12 have really nice cleans, but if you want cleans compared to the StangRay, the Rx Jr can get fairly close.
Shameless plug alert: I happen to have an Rx Jr combo for sale in the BST section. I love this amp, and the only reason I am even considering the decision to sell is because I want the Z-Wreck. That's the ONLY reason. If not for the Z-Wreck, I would be perfectly happy content playing the Rx forever. Again, not taking anything away from the other two amps, they are great, I've played them. Either way to you go I'm sure you wouldn't be disappointed, and I hope my description helped.
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 14, 2014 7:06:10 GMT -7
Just a few live examples for you.
Here I am using the Rx Jr. I'm the "short" guitar player. The first video is Liza Jane, I kick off the intro and do the solo. It's a pretty good representation of the Rx Jr I think.
Here is the Rx Jr with a Baritone Tele. Sorry for the crappy sound, but once you get a little ways into the song you can here pretty good. And we literally just learned the song.
And just to be objective, here is a video of the M12. I play a solo in this one.
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Post by ssdana on Jul 14, 2014 18:04:48 GMT -7
Jess- great tone, playing, and vocals! And the band sounds nice and tight with solid vocals and pro players!
I'll be talking to you shortly....
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51d
Junior Member
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Post by 51d on Jul 15, 2014 5:28:53 GMT -7
Welcome to the Forum. You're only going to find a used RxJr.....as the Doc doesn't make them anymore. Any of the amps you mentioned will be fine. They just have slightly different flavors. Modern Ghias have higher headroom than older ones. I use mine for modern country. Suits me just fine. It CAN be a clean platform...it just depends on how loud do you need to be. (and that's something we cannot answer here.) Use it with an efficient speaker and it can be pretty loud. If you want more clarity, punch, sparkly, transparent clean tone.....I would suggest getting rid of some of those pedals. There's a LOT of duplication in there. That many pedals is going to suck some tone. (At least 10 pedals?) So many of those are overdrive. There are lots of overdrives in your M9 (I have an M9 too) and the compressors are great! It WILL make a difference. Even if they're true bypass, it will make a difference. I had a pedalboard filled with true bypass pedals, then plugged directly in....I could tell the difference. That M9 is amazing and I would think most of the tones you want/need are in there. Just my 2 cents I definitely endorse this view that the modern Ghia has plenty of headroom, unless your band is a real houseshaker. In fact, I could even use a little more breakup in this amp... However, I'm biased because I love my Ghia and its ability to take pedals - although do pay attention to decent quality patch cabling. I use van Den Hul and Lava Soar (uncheap), and the difference is audible. And I absolutely believe in the fewer pedals approach; let your hands do the real work. And go for Ghia |
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Post by ssdana on Jul 15, 2014 7:46:24 GMT -7
Well I'm taking the plunge... If my bank account would have allowed it, Jess' Rx Jr. would be mine (thanks for the offer, Jess!) Unfortunately, I've got to keep my purchase under a grand right now, and my GAS is too severe to wait any longer. I ordered a used (mid-200's) Ghia head. Can't wait til she gets here!!!
Thank you guys for all of your input, and I will let you know what I think!
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Post by John on Jul 15, 2014 8:14:43 GMT -7
Great..what speaker(s) will you be pairing it with?
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Post by jb on Jul 15, 2014 10:17:32 GMT -7
Good choice, you won't be disappointed.
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 15, 2014 10:19:48 GMT -7
Well I'm taking the plunge... If my bank account would have allowed it, Jess' Rx Jr. would be mine (thanks for the offer, Jess!) Unfortunately, I've got to keep my purchase under a grand right now, and my GAS is too severe to wait any longer. I ordered a used (mid-200's) Ghia head. Can't wait til she gets here!!! Thank you guys for all of your input, and I will let you know what I think! Nothing wrong with that at all man! The Ghia has been around forever for a good reason, tone! Let us know how she works out. |
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Post by ssdana on Jul 15, 2014 19:13:13 GMT -7
John- that's hilarious I just saw your question about speakers and was about to start poking around for some info. Right now I've got an open backed Bad Cat 1x12 with a "Bad Cat Special Design" by Celestion in it- I believe it is a slightly modified Vintage 30 or G12H. My buddy also has a Z 112 cab with a Gold that I'm going to check it out with. (Say prayers for him that he gets it back!  ?) And of course I shall have to run it with both cabs to see how THAT sounds... I also may pop one of the Greenbacks out of my Vox to test as well. Given the fact that I've always been partial to running multiple speakers, I think a Z-best 2x12 may be in my future if this rig works out.... |
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 15, 2014 19:42:46 GMT -7
The V30 is offered as a stock option in the combo ghias. That would definitely be worth a try. So your badcat speaker might work out.
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards
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Post by John on Jul 16, 2014 4:58:55 GMT -7
John- that's hilarious I just saw your question about speakers and was about to start poking around for some info. Right now I've got an open backed Bad Cat 1x12 with a "Bad Cat Special Design" by Celestion in it- I believe it is a slightly modified Vintage 30 or G12H. My buddy also has a Z 112 cab with a Gold that I'm going to check it out with. (Say prayers for him that he gets it back! ?) And of course I shall have to run it with both cabs to see how THAT sounds... I also may pop one of the Greenbacks out of my Vox to test as well. Given the fact that I've always been partial to running multiple speakers, I think a Z-best 2x12 may be in my future if this rig works out.... "....slightly modified V30 or G12h". Those are two VERY different speakers! One has a spike in upper mid tone (V30), the other has scooped mids and tons of bass. (personally, I don't like the H) I personally have never tried/used a V30 with the Ghia, but there are many on the forum that like the combination. Greenbacks are my favorite speakers of all time. It's a little less efficient than the V30 and Gold, so that could help with the stage volume. The greenback is much closer to the tone of the gold than the V30. |
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 16, 2014 5:07:56 GMT -7
And don't forget about the creamback.
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Post by ssdana on Jul 16, 2014 6:08:35 GMT -7
Oh man I never should've joined this board!! You guys are going to help send me to the crazy house!! ? At least I know I'll have plenty of company there.... I won't sleep now till I try all the different speakers...and I don't even have the amp yet!!! |
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Post by doctorice on Jul 16, 2014 7:00:15 GMT -7
Congrats on taking the plunge.
Don't obsess overly much about speakers. The Ghia will sound good with almost anything. You'll eventually pair it with a speaker (or two) that gets you where you want. But don't be in a rush to judge. Get to know the amp. There are many tones lurking within that two-knob wonder.
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Post by John on Jul 16, 2014 9:33:23 GMT -7
And don't forget about the creamback. True....but creambacks are more expensive than greenback. And with an 18 watt Ghia, I think the creamback are not necessary. |
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 16, 2014 9:35:58 GMT -7
And don't forget about the creamback. True....but creambacks are more expensive than greenback. And with an 18 watt Ghia, I think the creamback are not necessary. 10-4. But even though it is based off of the greenback it still has a few different characteristics. More bass for example. Just depends on what he needs really. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards |
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Post by ssdana on Jul 16, 2014 15:04:00 GMT -7
Seriously, guys....I'm seeing all colors of Celestions in me Lucky Charms! Lucky Green Backs! Frosty Creambacks! Lol
I will report next week on whatever I can get my hands on...
In the meantime, I'm on the hunt for reverb pedals- I stated before that I had an M9- I just got it recently and can't live with it. I need simple and non-tone sucking pedals. It's getting returned. Need reverb pedal. Thinking TC HOF Mini. Used to own a standard size HOF but ran it in the fx loop of a Mesa Mini Rec. I've never had to run reverb into the front end of an amp before and I don't know if some are better than others with that. Let me know if anyone has a great suggestions. Think: small, always on, must sound natural and do no wrong to my tone.
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Post by John on Jul 17, 2014 3:47:18 GMT -7
Wow....I just can't live WITHOUT my M9. What about it didn't you like? Did you use an expression pedal? That really opening things up.
Delay not enough in the mix?
Reverb too loud?
Just step on the pedal and adjust it to where you want. It's like being able to turn the knobs of a stomp box while playing.
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 17, 2014 5:36:44 GMT -7
Seriously, guys....I'm seeing all colors of Celestions in me Lucky Charms! Lucky Green Backs! Frosty Creambacks! Lol I will report next week on whatever I can get my hands on... In the meantime, I'm on the hunt for reverb pedals- I stated before that I had an M9- I just got it recently and can't live with it. I need simple and non-tone sucking pedals. It's getting returned. Need reverb pedal. Thinking TC HOF Mini. Used to own a standard size HOF but ran it in the fx loop of a Mesa Mini Rec. I've never had to run reverb into the front end of an amp before and I don't know if some are better than others with that. Let me know if anyone has a great suggestions. Think: small, always on, must sound natural and do no wrong to my tone. I had an M9 for awhile also. And an M13 in fact. I couldn't jive with them either. Some folks like them and get a good sound but in the end just wasn't for me. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards |
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Post by ssdana on Jul 17, 2014 5:54:43 GMT -7
Something about how it sounds didn't make me happy- it took away like 5% of my tone whenever I clicked it on. Also I just prefer stompbox simplicity. I've played with a couple Nashville guys over the past year that use the Line 6 stuff, and they sound great! But I just can't jive with it....
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51d
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by 51d on Jul 17, 2014 6:51:04 GMT -7
And don't forget about the creamback. Or the great Warehouse Guitar Speakers WGS 10A 10" alnico I bored everyone about in another thread... |
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 17, 2014 7:14:17 GMT -7
And don't forget about the creamback. Or the great Warehouse Guitar Speakers WGS 10A 10" alnico I bored everyone about in another thread... I've read great things about it. If I had a 1x10 cab still I would try it. I think I made a post about it one time and got like 0 replies, but it was new and no one had tried it. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards |
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Post by ssdana on Jul 21, 2014 14:18:39 GMT -7
How many moments are there in a day between delivery of new amp and the ability to sit down and plug in? Especially when it's a Z....... |
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 21, 2014 14:40:15 GMT -7
Too many...
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards
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Post by ssdana on Jul 21, 2014 21:34:00 GMT -7
First impressions of the Ghia, running through Bad Cat 1x12 open backed with V30.: 1. She's loud! 2. Way cleaner than I expected, granted running volume at 9:00 and tone at noon. 3. Takes od pedals and boosts WAYYY different than Vox. Struggling to find a couple complementary tones & volumes. Best best so far has been to run Zvex Distortron hot and control everything with guitar volume. 4. Cuts like crazy through band mix with ease.
Will be trying with greenback in the cab ASAP.
The amp might be too loud for my needs. May need to try Maz 8 or M12. But not before thoroughly f-ing with what I've got first..... I'm not an attenuator guy either.
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