tnaluv1
New Member
Music is the best..... FZ
Posts: 49
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Post by tnaluv1 on May 6, 2007 9:03:29 GMT -7
Hey gang, I have this new to me Ghia and have had a great time with it. I have been reading the tube threads and enjoying the comments.
But I was wondering if someone could help me understand what the tubes do.
If I'm looking at the back of the head, the far left tube tube says Jan 5Y3WGTA then it says Phillips ECG8552.
the next two tubes are JJ el84's that had a sticker on the box that said they were a matched pair from MOJO.
the last two are a matched pair of JJ tubes that say ecc81.
I want to get a nice warm "Black Crow's" type of tone from the amp. I think it's pretty close but I feel like the folks here might be able to suggest better tubes to get that sound.
I see terms like V1 and V2 and power tubes and pre amp tubes etc.... How do I know which tubes are which? There doesn't seem to be a tube chart in the head.
This is probably old ground to some but I would really appreciate the help!
THANK YOU!! Alex....
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Post by JChance on May 6, 2007 13:33:27 GMT -7
Hey, dude... Is the amp used? The first thing I would do is put the amp back to it's "stock" tube configuration and go from there. The NOS recto should be good, and assuming the power tubes are ok...the pre-amp tubes you have in there aren't the factory setup. It may sound fine, as it's a taste thing. But V1 (far right), is your first preamp tube. It should be a 12AX7 of some type. Mine came from the factory with a JJ ECC83 there (same thing as a 12AX7.) The second tube from the right is the phase inverter, and is essential to the tone of the Ghia...Dr. Z uses a 5751 in this spot, which for all practical purposes is a lower gain version of a 12AX7. Less gain than a 12AX7, but more than a 12AT7 (ECC81.) Get the preamp tubes back to stock, and then see where you are.
J
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tnaluv1
New Member
Music is the best..... FZ
Posts: 49
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Post by tnaluv1 on May 6, 2007 19:43:22 GMT -7
Hey, dude... Is the amp used? The first thing I would do is put the amp back to it's "stock" tube configuration and go from there. The NOS recto should be good, and assuming the power tubes are ok...the pre-amp tubes you have in there aren't the factory setup. It may sound fine, as it's a taste thing. But V1 (far right), is your first preamp tube. It should be a 12AX7 of some type. Mine came from the factory with a JJ ECC83 there (same thing as a 12AX7.) The second tube from the right is the phase inverter, and is essential to the tone of the Ghia...Dr. Z uses a 5751 in this spot, which for all practical purposes is a lower gain version of a 12AX7. Less gain than a 12AX7, but more than a 12AT7 (ECC81.) Get the preamp tubes back to stock, and then see where you are. J Hey JCHANCE, Thanks man. I had been thinking that the ecc81 WAS a 12AX7! oops.... It came used, but had those tubes you mentioned in those spots. BUT it was very noisy, humming, and buzz, and lots of fuzzy white noise. The 5751 would ring like crazy when gently tapped. I had read that this was a sign of the tube being "microphonic", and so, needed to be changed. When I put the 2 ECC81's in, I thought I was putting in 2 12AX7 type tubes and was going to get more "drive" from using a 12AQX7 in the 5751 , or as I now understand it the V2 slot, than I would with a 5751. But that was my bad, I didn't realize the ECC81 was a 12AT7!. So I am using 2 12AT7's! What a blooper! You don't suppose this has been bad for the head? I've probably ran it for about 15 hours this way.....crap, I hope not....... Now that I know a 5751 would be a hair dirtier than a 12AX7 AND is the Doc's prefered phase inverter, I will get a nos 5751and put it in V2. And I have a new JJ ECC83 that I will put in V1, or the far Right tube, as the ECC83 is the same as a 12AX7, yes? BY JOVE I THINK I'VE GOT IT!!!! In the mean time, CAN I run it with the ECC83 in V1 and an ECC81 in V2? Is it bad for the head?..... Or should I just wait till the 5751 gets here? FEEEEWHHH!( wipes brow with towel)..... AWSOME..... Thanks again!
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Post by nitehawk55 on May 6, 2007 20:14:16 GMT -7
Running those tubes will be fine , you have not and will not cause any damage using those except the sound of the amp
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tnaluv1
New Member
Music is the best..... FZ
Posts: 49
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Post by tnaluv1 on May 6, 2007 23:31:08 GMT -7
Running those tubes will be fine , you have not and will not cause any damage using those except the sound of the amp Ha HA! Well, at least the noises have almost all gone away. And the tone is pretty good, so I should be really lovin it when I get a good 5751 back in there.... Thanks nitehawk55, I will order a tube tomrorow....! Good Night Y'all, Peace, Alex
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Post by kledbet on May 7, 2007 11:20:15 GMT -7
Make sure you put a BALANCED 5751 in V2, get one from KCANOSTUBES.COM I will affect your tone and the proper running of your power tubes.
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tnaluv1
New Member
Music is the best..... FZ
Posts: 49
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Post by tnaluv1 on May 7, 2007 12:15:19 GMT -7
Make sure you put a BALANCED 5751 in V2, get one from KCANOSTUBES.COM I will affect your tone and the proper running of your power tubes. Thanks kledbet..... I will do as you say! Right now I've got a JJ ECC83 in V1 an a GT ECC83 in V2 and it ain't half bad! BUT I will order the Balanced 5751 from KCA, and get her back to the way it came... So, what are the power tubes? Are they the EL84's? What is the Lone Phillips on the far left( if looking at the back of the amp?) I want to replace that one as well, as there is still a small 60hz hum even with the volume all the way off. I thought that I read elsewhere that the far left tube getting replaced can fix the hum. So, that far left tube is the Rectifier? and the EL84's are the power tubes? You guys are awesome, Thanks Again! Alex....
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Post by JChance on May 7, 2007 12:23:57 GMT -7
Gt EL84-S are the stock tubes.. Dr. Z usually uses them with a #6 rating.
Your noise could be a variety of things. Check the pre-amp tubes.. Power tube replacement would probably help as well.
Like I said, get the amp back to a freshly tubes "stock" configuration, then you'll be able to tell better where you want to go with it..
J
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Post by dongiesen on May 7, 2007 18:52:12 GMT -7
The 5Y3 is your rectifier. I think the other posts cover the rest of it.
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tnaluv1
New Member
Music is the best..... FZ
Posts: 49
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Post by tnaluv1 on May 8, 2007 6:34:22 GMT -7
The 5Y3 is your rectifier. I think the other posts cover the rest of it. OK, Cool. Thanks dongiesen. Is that the type of rectifier the Ghia Ships with? Does the rectifier affect the tone? Is there two of those tubes in a "dual rectifier"? Do you need two rectifiers to have channel switching? So............ what is the "signal flow"? The signal from the guitar goes into the head, then what? Thanks everyone! Alex...
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Post by JChance on May 8, 2007 14:09:54 GMT -7
Signal chain mainly just states what order your sound goes in from guitar to amp. As in- guitar-pedals-amp. Then, in the amp, your tone goes through the tubes in order (V1, V2, etc.) The rectifier is a controversial topic...
Some folks think it affects tone, some do not. It simply converts AC to DC (or is it the other way around?) to power the tubes/transformers, etc. By electronic standards, it's quite antiquated. But it still works well for tube guitar amps because of the compression effects.
I don't feel like different name brands of rectifiers affect your tone at all, at least in terms of voicing. What they will, or at least might affect, is the amount of sag or compression you get when you play. To me, rectifiers affect more of the response & attack of the amp more than the EQ curve.
Now, different *types* of rectifiers will dramatically affect how much compression & sag you get. Like, if you have an amp with a GZ34/5AR4, and you change it to a 5U4, you will get less headroom and earlier breakup. Do a Google search for "tube amp rectifier comparisons" and there is a ton of ino out there.
The Ghia has one rectifier, a 5Y3. It's commonly used in lower powered vintage styled amps. The Tweed Fender Deluxe is probably a universal example. Used frequently in amps in the 10-15 watt power range.
And no, you don't have to have two rectifiers for channel switching. Certain amps were designed to use two rectifiers... Mesa/Boogies and Tweed Twins immediately come to mind.
J
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Post by edoetsch on May 15, 2007 8:06:33 GMT -7
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