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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 11, 2014 18:52:48 GMT -7
First off, I'm brand new here. I'm super active on TDPRI but this is my first post here. I've already got some good info just from reading other threads. Anyway, I'm moving back to Nashville at the end of the month (june28th) and I'll be buying a new gig amp in July. I had an 89' Mesa boogie studio .22 but I sold it so I need something. I wasn't even really considering Dr Z because I thought they were all EL-84 based amps. I google-ed "dr z 6v6" and that lead me to the Z-28. I love 6V6s plus the z28 has no master volume which is a big plus IMO. I haven't got to play one yet so I'm relying on the opinions of you guys that have. I'm curious about the EF86 preamp. I don't know much about them and have never played one. How is it compared to a regular 12ax7 preamp? How different does it make the Z28 sound then say, something like a Deluxe Reverb?(both have 2 6v6s). Also, I'm a little concerned about it being loud/clean enough for full-band gigs. Ideally I'll be looking for the 2x10 combo. If I can't find one I'll probably look for a head and 2x10 cab.
Just for reference, I play mostly country with a Nash T-63 tele. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the amp for me?
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Post by John on Jun 11, 2014 19:15:27 GMT -7
EF86 amps have a more dynamic front end. Where a 12ax7 will compress more, the ef86 won't. I guess you could say the dynamic range is much wider.
If you think the Z-28 isn't loud enough for you, there's always the Route 66. Same preamp, different power tubes and output transformer.
When you do play one, keep this in mind: The bass & treble pots are BEFORE the ef86. So when they're set low, they act like tone controls. When cranked, they act more like overdrive controls. Suppress your urge to keep the tone controls where you might on other amps. Turn them with your eyes closed. Don't pay attention to where they're set. That said, people sure love the 3-3-3 setting. (all knob indicators pointing to 3 o'clock) Overall, the input is incredibly sensitive to pickup strength, guitar volume and what your hands and pick are doing to the strings.
The dynamics and clarity may shock you coming from a Mesa background. It's a different KIND of distortion. There's still incredible string and note definition. There's no muddy distortion to hide behind. But it makes for a much more expressive amp.
A Deluxe Reverb has a more scooped mid section.
As for 6v6...there's also the Remedy..which is the Doc's take on a plexi. You mentioned not liking master volumes. The Remedy's master volume is very nice. It makes it a more usable amp. Being a cathode biased amp, the master volume seems to get along with it better.
And welcome to the forum!
....and if you can, try out the Carmen Ghia. I know it's el84...but his had less of the chimey characteristics associated with that tube. But the Z-28 will be louder than a Ghia. To me, the Ghia is such a great club amp.
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Post by Christopher on Jun 11, 2014 19:16:16 GMT -7
The EF86 loves telex.think fast quick response to your pick attack. The amp itself has ample headroom and volume for any gig. I've gigged mine for the past 5 years and it can cover any base that is not metal. The EF 86 loves pedals, too.
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 11, 2014 19:45:46 GMT -7
The EF86 loves telex.think fast quick response to your pick attack. The amp itself has ample headroom and volume for any gig. I've gigged mine for the past 5 years and it can cover any base that is not metal. The EF 86 loves pedals, too. Thanks. It sounds really good. I'm still rounding out my pedalboard for Nashville. I'm trying to keep it minimal but it's tough when trying to cover all the "modern" country sounds(uggggh don't get me started, lol). But back to the Z28, I'm probably going to have to buy without playing it first but I don't think there's anyway I won't love it. Thanks for the info.
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 11, 2014 19:52:11 GMT -7
EF86 amps have a more dynamic front end. Where a 12ax7 will compress more, the ef86 won't. I guess you could say the dynamic range is much wider. If you think the Z-28 isn't loud enough for you, there's always the Route 66. Same preamp, different power tubes and output transformer. When you do play one, keep this in mind: The bass & treble pots are BEFORE the ef86. So when they're set low, they act like tone controls. When cranked, they act more like overdrive controls. Suppress your urge to keep the tone controls where you might on other amps. Turn them with your eyes closed. Don't pay attention to where they're set. That said, people sure love the 3-3-3 setting. (all knob indicators pointing to 3 o'clock) Overall, the input is incredibly sensitive to pickup strength, guitar volume and what your hands and pick are doing to the strings. The dynamics and clarity may shock you coming from a Mesa background. It's a different KIND of distortion. There's still incredible string and note definition. There's no muddy distortion to hide behind. But it makes for a much more expressive amp. A Deluxe Reverb has a more scooped mid section. As for 6v6...there's also the Remedy..which is the Doc's take on a plexi. You mentioned not liking master volumes. The Remedy's master volume is very nice. It makes it a more usable amp. Being a cathode biased amp, the master volume seems to get along with it better. And welcome to the forum! ....and if you can, try out the Carmen Ghia. I know it's el84...but his had less of the chimey characteristics associated with that tube. But the Z-28 will be louder than a Ghia. To me, the Ghia is such a great club amp. Thanks. There's tons of great info here. I've thought about the Remedy as well but I think the z28 will be loud enough. I've read a lot about the EQ controls, they're super interesting. It's interesting you mentioned the 3-3-3 setting, a video I watched suggested the 6-6-6 setting which sounded insane! I'm still processing all the info but I appreciate it. I'm 99% sure I'll end up with the z28 but I'm sure any Z would be great. Keep the info coming, I love reading about this stuff Thanks. Gary.
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Post by JoeMo' on Jun 11, 2014 21:19:36 GMT -7
I've got one for sale in the buy sell trade section. Just sayin'!
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Jun 12, 2014 0:59:44 GMT -7
Hi Gary, Welcome to the forum!! I have both the Z28 and the Remedy, and yes, they are very much in the same family, but the Rem will dirty up much quicker than the Z28, and get much dirty farther up the scale. I'm not sure the Rem would be seen as a country amp, even modern country, whereas the Z28 would be perfect, if you don't want EL84s. Despite my love of the Remedy (and the fact that it's my main gigging amp), the Z28 is my desert island amp for sure (I've gone through MAz18, Monza and Ghia). The Z28 is an amp to be played, not just plugged in to - that is important to get. The dynamic range of this beauty is WAY beyond the 3 simple knobs, really. Each control sort of changes function at noon, and they interact with each other in wonderful ways. Below noon, they do what they say on the label; above noon they act as Drive knobs for their chosen functions. It never gets super dirty but has a clarity and harmonic richness - a girth, if you will - that has to played to be believed, not heard so much as PLAYED. When I got mine, I realised what a CRAP player I was - there is nowhere to hide with this amp - but it made me a much better player! There is no compression to hide behind, and that can be a challenge, so a decent pedal or two can easily add compression if that's what you need. This thing soaks up pedals - but it will highlight any shortfalls there too. Your pedals become part of the overall "instrument" of you-guitar-pedal-cable-amp-speaker. It will reward the effort, believe me! It sort of takes what you put in, sends it off to be Mastered at the world's best mastering suite, and then amplifies it and gives it to the audience. It will flatter the life out of you if you make the effort, but if you're lazy, it just looks at you and goes "Really?" It wants you to take it by the scruff of the neck and play the snot out of it every time, and then it'll sing!! An incredible amp, IMHO. Okay, enough hyperbole! Do what John says above - plug straight in, CLOSE YOUR EYES, and then start twiddling knobs. You might be amazed at where your settings end up coming from MESA world. Play this thing with your ears, not your eyes. There's plenty of Volume on tap for good club gigging - these Z amps are loud, but not unmanageable by any means. Z designs his amps for gigging musicians (absolutely no disrespect to the basement players up here) but they come alive in a live situation in my experience. Someone wiser and more eloquent than me said that it's 2 parts Fender Tweed, 1 part Marshall Plexi - not a bad summary. It has that Tweed tone going on, but with more girth and not scooped, and boy does it cut through the mix with ease! Good luck with your search and I hope you have fun should you chose a Z28
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Post by John on Jun 12, 2014 5:24:23 GMT -7
In addition to the 'keep your eyes closed when turning the tone knobs'....I said it before, but it's so important it's worth saying again:
This amp is VERY different than the typical Mesa amp. Mesas are known for lots of preamp distortion....that's their signature tone. (to me, preamp distortion is very buzzy) And they can get very compressed and at times, muddy. A player can get used to that, and hide behind it. By that I mean sloppy playing. My first Z amp was a Route 66. (Sister amp to the Z-28...it has the same ef86 preamp and has the same dynamic feeling.) At first I didn't like it. It highlighted all my mistakes. And like Pete said, I became a better player because of the amp.
So I'm not knocking your playing, but be prepared for a very different amp. I'll bet there are a LOT of players who are accustomed to Mesa type distortion...who plug into a Z-28 and are not accustomed to the dynamics and the revealing of their mistakes...and they just say "This amp sucks". And when people say it soaks up pedals, perhaps some clarification is needed. Because of the dynamic range, it reacts to pedals differently. Neither better or worse...just differently. So some adjustments may be needed.
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Post by southmusic70 on Jun 12, 2014 5:48:02 GMT -7
Just a thought:
When you first start looking into Z amps, you think "well, that's a 6v6 power section, so it's going to sound like a Deluxe" or " that's a EL34, so it's going to sound like a Marshall" - or whatever.
Let me suggest that your thinking needs to be much more three dimensional because the Z designs and uses of components are vastly different in terms of what comes out of them than most of the amps you've dealt with before.
I have 4 Zs (28, Route, Rati v2, KT), and although the Z28 is my favorite and the most utile for what I do, I've been amazed at what the others can produce (note that three of the four have the ef86 front end). For example, I grew up on black face Fenders with 6L6 tubes (specifically Vibrolux Reverb and Showman) and these have always been pretty much the sound for me; last year I got a good deal on BST for a KT45, which is el34, a tube that I have never really liked. Everybody said it was different and worth a try, and they were right - it's a very different take on the use of that power tube and very usable for a lot of applications (my favorite being with my archtops for jazz).
I'm sure the same thing has happened many times to other Z users.
You will like the 28.
And the other ones you buy.
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Post by bwc on Jun 12, 2014 6:00:13 GMT -7
Hi Gary, welcome!
I had a DRRI when I bought my first z-28 and 4x10 a little over a decade ago. Only used Z's since then.
The change was a bit drastic, as the Z-28 was much louder and didn't have reverb. It took a while to get used to but the fender was eventually sold. I think the toughest thing was playing without reverb, especially quietly. It sounded a little dry in comparison. Live band performance, totally different story. The Z cuts through the mix while the DRRI ran out of headroom by the third set.
Have you viewed Roscoe's Z28 clip on the Z website yet? He does a real nice job of highlighting the dynamics of the amp with a tele. This to me is where the amp shines because it can be sweet and clean when strummed softly and then hit it hard and it breaks up SO nicely. You just don't get that with the DRRI. They're nice played clean but once they're over 10 o'clock the breakup sounds nasty.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Jun 12, 2014 7:04:43 GMT -7
How different does it make the Z28 sound then say, something like a Deluxe Reverb?(both have 2 6v6s). Also, I'm a little concerned about it being loud/clean enough for full-band gigs. I've A/B'd my '65 DRRI and Z-28 with instantaneous switching through the same speaker, and they're "close" but I wouldn't call 'em the same. (Same ballpark, both infield maybe.. but mabye short-stop vs. 1st base?) The Z-28 has stronger mids that you can't really dial out (this isn't a bad thing, but just making a point, as there's no MID knob). But if you could dial them down, I'm guessing they'd be much closer in tone. Cranking them up, the Deluxe seems to get brash & a little harsh, whereas the Z-28 has a nicer crunch (less American, more British). Amazing amp, that Z-28. One of the Doc's finest... and proof that sometimes simpler is better.
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Post by Joey Beverages on Jun 12, 2014 7:53:46 GMT -7
Pre Z-28 I owned several amps - including a 65 DRRI, a vintage Traynor YBA-2 w/ dual 6V6, a coupla Twins ... Supers ..... and even tried out a coupla others * Dynamic range of the '28 is noticeably different than a DRRI * Plenty of volume with a '28 and 210 cab - never mind what it's like going thru a Z-best or various other cab and speaker combinations .... I like to stack a 112 and 210 under my Z-28 * Pedal friendly * From clean to mean, lotsa possibilities in-between I got my Z-28 in 2006 .... and have used it in a variety of settings/locations/applications .... Teles, Strats, ES gibsons, EBMM Super Sports, PRS ..... and, despite life getting in the way once or twice I have done everything possible to hang-onto my Z-28 I think you gonna have some fun with it ..... and mebbe the 'Ghia that you'll probably wanna put beside it best regards and cheers always, eh Joel
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 12, 2014 9:20:52 GMT -7
I've got one for sale in the buy sell trade section. Just sayin'! Well I can't look at the buy/sell for like 28 more days, lol. I can't buy right now anyway. I have to wait until August 15th. I'll be settled in Nashville by then and I'll get a big check from my school that week.
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 12, 2014 9:48:34 GMT -7
Hi Gary, Welcome to the forum!! I have both the Z28 and the Remedy, and yes, they are very much in the same family, but the Rem will dirty up much quicker than the Z28, and get much dirty farther up the scale. I'm not sure the Rem would be seen as a country amp, even modern country, whereas the Z28 would be perfect, if you don't want EL84s. Despite my love of the Remedy (and the fact that it's my main gigging amp), the Z28 is my desert island amp for sure (I've gone through MAz18, Monza and Ghia). The Z28 is an amp to be played, not just plugged in to - that is important to get. The dynamic range of this beauty is WAY beyond the 3 simple knobs, really. Each control sort of changes function at noon, and they interact with each other in wonderful ways. Below noon, they do what they say on the label; above noon they act as Drive knobs for their chosen functions. It never gets super dirty but has a clarity and harmonic richness - a girth, if you will - that has to played to be believed, not heard so much as PLAYED. When I got mine, I realised what a CRAP player I was - there is nowhere to hide with this amp - but it made me a much better player! There is no compression to hide behind, and that can be a challenge, so a decent pedal or two can easily add compression if that's what you need. This thing soaks up pedals - but it will highlight any shortfalls there too. Your pedals become part of the overall "instrument" of you-guitar-pedal-cable-amp-speaker. It will reward the effort, believe me! It sort of takes what you put in, sends it off to be Mastered at the world's best mastering suite, and then amplifies it and gives it to the audience. It will flatter the life out of you if you make the effort, but if you're lazy, it just looks at you and goes "Really?" It wants you to take it by the scruff of the neck and play the snot out of it every time, and then it'll sing!! An incredible amp, IMHO. Okay, enough hyperbole! Do what John says above - plug straight in, CLOSE YOUR EYES, and then start twiddling knobs. You might be amazed at where your settings end up coming from MESA world. Play this thing with your ears, not your eyes. There's plenty of Volume on tap for good club gigging - these Z amps are loud, but not unmanageable by any means. Z designs his amps for gigging musicians (absolutely no disrespect to the basement players up here) but they come alive in a live situation in my experience. Someone wiser and more eloquent than me said that it's 2 parts Fender Tweed, 1 part Marshall Plexi - not a bad summary. It has that Tweed tone going on, but with more girth and not scooped, and boy does it cut through the mix with ease! Good luck with your search and I hope you have fun should you chose a Z28 Thanks for all the great info. I'm really getting excited about this amp. The way you describe it really appeals to me. I work very hard on my playing, I'm kind of a nut about it practicing for hours and hours a day. It sounds like this amp kinda demands that determination, lol. Like I said, I don't ever get to play Dr Zs where I am now but Im going back to Nashville at the end of the month. Its crazy, there was a maz 18 reverb at my local guitar center yesterday, I've never seen a Z there before. I went to plug into it and check it out, then i looked more closely. It was missing a power tube and the power soak was messed up. My luck. I should also mention that while my last amp was a Mesa Boogie, I've primarily been a Fender amp guy for most my life. I've had SF champs, a Princeton Reverb and some other stuff. I was considering buying a SF Vibrolux Reverb when I get to Nashville but then I found the Z28. If for some reason I get one and don't like it(seems impossible) then I'll find a Vibrolux. I look forward to reading what more of you have to say, I've learned a lot already. Thanks. Gary.
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 12, 2014 9:56:56 GMT -7
In addition to the 'keep your eyes closed when turning the tone knobs'....I said it before, but it's so important it's worth saying again: This amp is VERY different than the typical Mesa amp. Mesas are known for lots of preamp distortion....that's their signature tone. (to me, preamp distortion is very buzzy) And they can get very compressed and at times, muddy. A player can get used to that, and hide behind it. By that I mean sloppy playing. My first Z amp was a Route 66. (Sister amp to the Z-28...it has the same ef86 preamp and has the same dynamic feeling.) At first I didn't like it. It highlighted all my mistakes. And like Pete said, I became a better player because of the amp. So I'm not knocking your playing, but be prepared for a very different amp. I'll bet there are a LOT of players who are accustomed to Mesa type distortion...who plug into a Z-28 and are not accustomed to the dynamics and the revealing of their mistakes...and they just say "This amp sucks". And when people say it soaks up pedals, perhaps some clarification is needed. Because of the dynamic range, it reacts to pedals differently. Neither better or worse...just differently. So some adjustments may be needed. Hey, Thanks for the info. As i mentioned in the last replay, I'm not a "Mesa Guy" by any means. I ended up with the Studio .22 kinda by chance, I really liked it though. I only used the clean channel and used pedals for OD. It was kind of a clean machine, I couldn't turn it up loud enough at any of my gigs to get it to start breaking up, it was just too loud. But I've always used pedals for OD. I just wanted to say for the record that I'm not a preamp distortion, or really any distortion, kinda guy. I like a loud/warm/fat/sparkley clean base tone that I can build on with my board (my board is usually something like: Tele>tuner>comp>Barber Gain Changer>(maybe a 2nd OD)>Wampler Delay>(maybe a verb or term pedal)>RC Booster>amp. Everything i've read and everything you guys are telling me about this amp sounds amazing, I can't wait to get my hands on one. I feel sorry for my neighbors! Lol Thanks. Gary.
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Post by nmz on Jun 12, 2014 10:02:57 GMT -7
Z28 was my first Z and I bought it without having the opportunity to play it first. I also came from the DRRI side of things. Like others have said the front end is different but in a good way. I hope you dig it!
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Jun 12, 2014 10:09:25 GMT -7
Just to throw a wrench into things - the soon to be released "Therapy" also sounds like it might work very well for you! No sound clips available yet (amp to be released in July) but trust me it is an amazing amp - clean to mean with just the turn of your guitar volume!
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Post by Ridgeback on Jun 12, 2014 10:27:03 GMT -7
In hindsight I wish my first Z had been the Z-28. I would have saved a lot of money over the years. It's my desert island amp but you see them come up used so they are obviously not for everybody. Good luck and welcome to the forum.
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Post by JoeMo' on Jun 12, 2014 11:39:41 GMT -7
I've got one for sale in the buy sell trade section. Just sayin'! Well I can't look at the buy/sell for like 28 more days, lol. I can't buy right now anyway. I have to wait until August 15th. I'll be settled in Nashville by then and I'll get a big check from my school that week. That's cool! I don't live far from Nashville. Maybe I'll bump into ya one day. I go down there quite a bit.
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 26, 2014 11:35:07 GMT -7
I'm really having a hard time deciding between head/cab or combo. I could make compelling arguments for the 1x10, 1x12, and 2x10 combos as well as the head. Help me!?!?!? I'll be playing in Nashville so it's mostly small to medium size bars and your amp is almost ALWAYS mic'd. What do you guys think? Obviously it'd be awesome to only have to tote around a little 1x10 combo but the 2x10 would sound so sweet moving all that air!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 11:57:25 GMT -7
My back votes 1x10 w Doc's standard for that amp speaker.
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Post by nmz on Jun 26, 2014 11:57:35 GMT -7
I personally like 12 inch speakers. So my vote is for either a 1x12 or 2x10.
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Post by jesslm02 on Jun 26, 2014 11:59:54 GMT -7
I purchased mine as a head and later purchased a combo cab so that I could swap back and forth. I had a custom 1x12 cab made that is actually about the size of Doc's 1x10. It's great for portability. I just put mine up for sale in the BST section. It's a great amp, I just have to many!
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 27, 2014 8:41:19 GMT -7
Well I'm looking to trade a very rare Seafoam over daphne Nash T-63. All the offers I've received so far trade-wise have been for head/cabs (2 different Z28 heads, one with a 1x12 cab and one with a 2x10). Apparently the combos are hard to find used. I was also offered a Remedy with a matching 2x10 Z cab. I also found a 15th(I think) anniversary Z28 head and this awesome cabinet. It's the coolest cab I've ever seen it's a company called MatAmp. It's like a Marshall style slant cab but it's a little 1x12 version in like polio tolex. I've never seen a slant cab that small, it's really cool looking, I'll post a pic. But the guy said he'd sell me the head and that MatCab for $1300 but I'd have to pay the shipping from Canada so that another $100-$300 prob. We'll see.
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 27, 2014 8:56:38 GMT -7
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Jun 28, 2014 0:54:57 GMT -7
Looks just like my Z28! I can't comment on price, but that looks like a killer rig!
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Post by Maddog on Jun 28, 2014 6:03:10 GMT -7
^^^^ Man, I LOVE that little red slant cab, Gary! OBTW, I too avoided EL84 amps until I played a Z...... I now have two....
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 28, 2014 8:20:52 GMT -7
^^^^ Man, I LOVE that little red slant cab, Gary! OBTW, I too avoided EL84 amps until I played a Z...... I now have two.... I know. That's the coolest cab I've ever seen! I'm thinking if i trade my Nash for the z28 head and matching cab, I might sell the z cab and buy that red one lol.
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Post by garysgearreviews on Jun 28, 2014 8:23:13 GMT -7
Looks just like my Z28! I can't comment on price, but that looks like a killer rig! Why can't you comment on the price? It's $1300+shipping from Montreal to Nashville. I wish I could find a combo but that little cab is so sweet. It's super rare. It "retails" for over $500. He said he'd sell me the head for $900 and can for $400. I might do it if he'll help with shipping. We'll see.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 8:44:23 GMT -7
You could get a brand new pine cab in Nashville made by Mather Cabs right there. He'll make anything you want and if you are gigging pine is light!
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