pauloman80
New Member
Dreaming of Z's...
Posts: 12
|
Post by pauloman80 on Mar 19, 2014 5:19:07 GMT -7
Greetings from central Florida! Name's Paulo, I'm a worship pastor & session musician in Orlando. Looking forward to getting to know all of you. I hopped on here looking for some guidance... I've been aware of Dr. Z amps for years now, but never had the opportunity to play through one myself until one of my friends picked up an RX ES early last year. I've borrowed it multiple times now as it has several lovely tonal characteristics that my beloved '71 Super Reverb doesn't have, and thanks to tax return season being upon us I'm validated in procuring some version of this amp. I do want to try to stay within a reasonable budget though (around $1500 if at all possible) as there are other gear purchases I've had to put off while my wife was in grad school. Now that she's graduated, I get to play with this year's entire tax return. =D Obviously Z isn't making the RX anymore, so I'm trying to determine the best course of action. Some questions: - I've read that there's a bit of a tonal difference between the full-size RX ES and the Jr. Is this true, and if so, how different are they? I'd really like to snag something smaller than my Super both in size and power so I can push it a bit more. I run a decently sizable pedalboard rig and really only need the amp for clean, maybe a touch of pushed grit. The Jr. tends to be difficult to find used, especially in combo form (to save $$ and transport needs).
- How tonally different is the new Stang Ray from the RX series? Been having trouble finding those used as well.
- Is there any kind of "classifieds" on this message board that I just haven't seen yet being brand new?
Thanks kindly, and I look forward to any thoughts you fine amp aficionados might have.
|
|
|
Post by Baconator on Mar 19, 2014 8:50:43 GMT -7
Welcome to the forum, Paulo! You'll find there are loads of friendly, helpful and knowledgeable people here. I'm afraid I can't help with your first two questions as I own a Route 66 and a Carmen Ghia but haven't spent much if any time with any other models. I can tell you that every Z amp I've tried has sounded pretty sweet and I wouldn't be too concerned with blindly picking up up another Z amp since I bought both of mine without auditioning them beforehand based largely on information gleaned from this forum. As for the classifieds, the link is viewable towards the bottom of the main page or if you hover the mouse pointer over the Z-Talk 'button' in the top left corner under the 'home' button you'll see Buy Sell & Trade as the second-last entry. That said, you have to be a member for 30 days before you have access. It'll be a slow month, but it's worth the wait . In the meantime, there is a vast amount of information here so read through as much as you can.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 9:32:17 GMT -7
Welcome Paulo! Good luck in your search. Z amps are the finest around. Good knowledgeable folks here, help will come along.
|
|
|
Post by kinggabbo on Mar 19, 2014 9:47:07 GMT -7
I have an Rx Jr and have briefly played an Rx ES. Prior to buying the Rx Jr I did alot of research (most in this forum) and the general consensus was that the Rx Jr had very close to the same tone of the Rx ES. I did not play the Rx ES enough myself to form an opinion.
But the tone of the Rx Jr is very nice and very similar to sound clips of the Rx ES. I think it is the same preamp only with 2 power tubes and a master volume.
Of course, a big amp still sounds like a big amp.
|
|
|
Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 19, 2014 13:13:09 GMT -7
Greetings from central Florida! Name's Paulo, I'm a worship pastor & session musician in Orlando. Looking forward to getting to know all of you. I hopped on here looking for some guidance... I've been aware of Dr. Z amps for years now, but never had the opportunity to play through one myself until one of my friends picked up an RX ES early last year. I've borrowed it multiple times now as it has several lovely tonal characteristics that my beloved '71 Super Reverb doesn't have, and thanks to tax return season being upon us I'm validated in procuring some version of this amp. I do want to try to stay within a reasonable budget though (around $1500 if at all possible) as there are other gear purchases I've had to put off while my wife was in grad school. Now that she's graduated, I get to play with this year's entire tax return. =D Obviously Z isn't making the RX anymore, so I'm trying to determine the best course of action. Some questions: - I've read that there's a bit of a tonal difference between the full-size RX ES and the Jr. Is this true, and if so, how different are they? I'd really like to snag something smaller than my Super both in size and power so I can push it a bit more. I run a decently sizable pedalboard rig and really only need the amp for clean, maybe a touch of pushed grit. The Jr. tends to be difficult to find used, especially in combo form (to save $$ and transport needs).
- How tonally different is the new Stang Ray from the RX series? Been having trouble finding those used as well.
- Is there any kind of "classifieds" on this message board that I just haven't seen yet being brand new?
Thanks kindly, and I look forward to any thoughts you fine amp aficionados might have.
Welcome to the forum Paulo, If you liked your buddy's RX ES I'm assuming it did NOT have the Master volume mod on the back (my RX ES has this mod and it is a VERY VERY useful mod the Doc can do for you if you happen to find and RX ES, works just like the Master on the RX Jr)... The RX Extra Strength is every bit a 45 watt amp... with 4 EL 84 power tubes, a 5AR4 tube rectifier and a neat and very different preamp design with an ef-86 tube in the V2 position instead of the V1 like most other designs ( Stangray, M12, Z-28, RT-66 and KT 45 all have the ef-86 in the 1st preamp tube position or V1) The RX Junior Strength ( or RX Jr as most of us call it) is about a 15 watt amp... with 2 el-84 power tubes and a 5Y3 tube rectifier, same preamp section as the RX ES with the ef-86 in V2 also. ALL RX Jr's have the Master Volume on the back as it came standard on this amp. NOTE: just FYI, there is another RX amp out there too, no longer made but you will see for sale... it IS much different than the RX ES. it is what we kinda refer to as the ORIGINAL RX... and was simply known as the "prescription" or "RX". It is a great amp, very loud and percussive ( even more than the RX ES) it does NOT use an EF-86 in the pre amp... it roars and reminds me of a Vox meets Marshall plexi. Now, back to the RX Jr... it is really close to the RX ES just not as loud. Doc really nailed it, 2 el-84's especially the 5Y3 is what really helps make that amp what it is, and at that volume. The Stangray is a bit different than the RX ES... you really need to play one to feel it and hear it's difference and you may really like it also... the ray has truly WONDERFUL cleans and takes a bit more to drive it naturally... they are kinda in the same ballpark. The RX ES to me tends to be a bit more percussive and immediate attack whereas the Ray has more sag and give and a bit more clean tone as opposed to the RX's clean with hair... can be a pretty loud amp also and is rated at 30 watts... and it is 30 loud watts if needed. Now, having owed and played ALL of these for quite some time... ( I still have all the RX's) I'll give you MY recommendation if you want to buy an amp in the Z line, but CAN'T find a good used RX ES or RX Jr: If you can't find an RX ES and want that 4 EL 84 thing: I think the Stangray would probably work for you, but I'd want to try one first as it is a bit different... ( and also a Maz 38 NR see info below) If you really want a RX Jr and can't find one, there's two different Z amps I'd recommend... one is the M-12. GREAT amp and about 12 loud watts... to me it is a cross between a mini- Ray, a mini RX, and a Mini z-wreck... but kinda it's own thing, lots of headroom and was MADE to use with pedals... sounds good by itself, and can get a bit of drive when cranked up. and last but NOT least... probably THE most versatile, all around useful, RELIABLE gigging amp that if i HAD to have a "go to" amp in place of an RX I would get... Maz 18 NR version ...to ME the No Reverb Maz 18 would be what I would recommend maybe even more than the M-12 or the Ray. so basically; If I ONLY had my RX Jr (or maybe ONLY the ES) and it was my ONLY / go to amp and then something happened to it... and I HAD to replace it with something similar, but I couldn't GET another RX... I would get a Maz Jr NR to replace the RX Jr (and I would prolly get a Maz SR NR to Replace the RX ES... if not the stangray) my .02 good luck, if you're patient you should be able to find a clean used RX... but if not I think you might really like the Maz 18/ 38 NR. Jason
|
|
pauloman80
New Member
Dreaming of Z's...
Posts: 12
|
Post by pauloman80 on Mar 20, 2014 17:48:48 GMT -7
Glad I came here. This is precisely the kind of guidance I was looking for. You peeps are fantastic, thanks for responding!
No problem that the classifieds aren't available to me yet, funds aren't in place yet. =D Last thing I need to do is get my heart set on something that pops up when I can't do anything about it. I'm not about to ask someone to hang on to a piece of gear they're trying to unload until I can afford it. I've shopped around enough, played through enough amps, heard enough rigs run by other players, I think I can wait a bit longer for my Z.
I did know the Jr runs half the power tubes as the ES, but there's always the chance that something is "lost" in the power reduction. Glad to hear it's not really the case here.
A big thank-you Jason for being so thorough! Your synopses are just what the doctor ordered. *ba dum TISH* Anyone? Anyone? (Sorry.) A fellow player who I motivated to start his pedal building business (DC Pedals, check them out, he has some great stuff) is also building amps, and I was going to have him build me an amp based on the RX. He came to me a couple weeks ago recommending that if I'm looking for that sound, I might as well just buy one instead of having him build an approximation. We were going to approach it based on the EL84s in the power section, and I think that's the main direction I'd like to head. It's got that different bite from my Super, which is what I've been looking for. I do prefer to play through whatever amp I'm looking at, and unfortunately there's not really any places in the central Florida area anymore that stock anything more than the big-box norms. Hearing that there's a general consistency is very encouraging as far as my search goes.
I do prefer a "balance" of controls. I like the RX in particular because it's got Bass, Mid, Treble, and Volume. Simple, but provides more than just a tone control. The Stang Ray is very intriguing too, if slightly out of the price range I wanted to try sticking to. Turns out my friend really wanted to find a Stang Ray but couldn't pass up the deal he got on his RX. I wasn't sold on checking out the M12 since there's no control for mids, but it does still have an EL84 power section, so maybe it could fit the bill easily. The Maz certainly seems to follow the "less is more" approach as well while still providing plenty of tonal control. Jason, you seemed to specifically recommend the NR version of the Maz, how big a difference is there between the NR and the Maz in combo form (if any)?
Thanks again, gents! (And ladies where applicable.)
|
|
|
Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 20, 2014 20:28:35 GMT -7
There is an Rx Jr. On reverb.com for sale right now w cabinet.
|
|
pauloman80
New Member
Dreaming of Z's...
Posts: 12
|
Post by pauloman80 on Mar 21, 2014 3:57:15 GMT -7
There is an Rx Jr. On reverb.com for sale right now w cabinet. Wow. Sweet. I'm going to keep my eyes on Reverb.com for sure. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 21, 2014 22:23:16 GMT -7
Paulo, I think your friend is steering right in that if you like that particular Z... just get the Z, cause a new one is still a good value for the $$ (looks like there is still a new RX Jr left at Wilcutts who is a Z dealer; willcuttguitars.com/amps/dr-z-amps/dr-z-prescription-jr-head-black ) and if you find a good used one ( with the exception of that NOS RX Jr, with the RX's being discontinued you're gonna have to)... you can't hardly have one built cheaper than the cost of a good used one. A good used one will be well under your price range mentioned, anywhere from 900.00 - 1,200 range for a nice head. That new RX Jr is just a bit above your range but would be a new amp and would be worth every penny if you like that amp and it works for you. Also, I would NOT worry about the tone stack on any of more minimal Dr Z designs.. they are voiced well and even with fewer knobs are surprisingly adjustable... I find I can dial in the M-12 with just the bass and treble or even a single tone knob Z as good as I can a Maz, EZG or RX... As for the Reason I mentioned the NR ( No Reverb) Maz models is to me it's a little closer to what the Rx has going on... I use the Reverb model Maz and love them... but I had a NR Maz 18 for a while... the NR (No Reverb) model has a bit more drive, a bit more open, percussive and less compressed sound which is a bit closer to the RX than the Reverb models. If you CAN'T find an RX... I REALLY think you'd probably like either of the Maz Jr NR or Maz Sr NR amps... whichever power level you think you may need... and they both come in a head or combo. and there is actually another amp still in production I would recommend you try, if you could try them out... That would be the Remedy. It is a 6V6 but it REALLY REALLY reminded me a lot of the plexi marshall good ness of the RX... it has a 20 / 40 watt switch and a full tone stack too. When I ended up getting my EZG, I WAS gonna get a Remedy... but after tryin it out and playing one, it was so close to the RX that it was kinda redundant so I went with the EZG instead for a different tone than the RX's... But If I were you, and with your budget... you HAVE played and also LIKED the RX, so I would FIRST try and find a good used RX... And Remember... if you find a nice used RX ES for around a grand... If it doesn't already have it, you can have the Master volume added for about $100.00. This will make take that amp from 40 watts quite a bit down and "almost" get as low volume wise as the RX Jr can go.... kind best of both worlds if you liked the RX ES your friend has. hope this helped some...
|
|
pauloman80
New Member
Dreaming of Z's...
Posts: 12
|
Post by pauloman80 on Mar 22, 2014 18:00:04 GMT -7
Jason, thank you for being so thorough. EXTREMELY helpful. Allows me to mentalize what's options are since there's no opportunity to play through the various models.
What are your thoughts on the Jr. that bourgeoisboy spotted on reverb.com? It's not paired with an actual Dr. Z cab, it's one the guy built himself.
Again, super helpful! Feeling much more confident about the process of finding the right amp.
|
|
|
Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 22, 2014 21:53:34 GMT -7
Jason, thank you for being so thorough. EXTREMELY helpful. Allows me to mentalize what's options are since there's no opportunity to play through the various models. What are your thoughts on the Jr. that bourgeoisboy spotted on reverb.com? It's not paired with an actual Dr. Z cab, it's one the guy built himself. Again, super helpful! Feeling much more confident about the process of finding the right amp. No problem... I've always had a soft spot and loved all the RX's.... and even though I usually use a Maz Jr for volume/ grab n go combo reasons... I like to pair a Maz with an RX when I can volume and space wise. Not too long ago there weren't nearly as many Z dealers as there are now, and most of us older Z guy's bought and traded amps with out playin em... then about ten years ago or so this forum came along... and then we had this forum to really help narrow down the search (or give you GAS for more) and we could still just buy em and play em to help decide which ones were right for us... fortunately now there are quite a few more great Z dealers than there used to be... but sometimes guy's come on here that aren't near a dealer or have questions so we still try to help where we can... I never played a Z I didn't like and sold or traded a few that I absolutely loved but just weren't quite "me"... I know a lot of us have let folks near us try our amps to see if they liked em or not... may wanna ask on a thread to see if there might be some Z bro's near you with a RX Jr, M 12, Maz NR or Remedy you could try... never know. I know if you were near me I wouldn't mind at all letting you try out mine, but I think you're pretty far away... . As for the RX Jr head on reverb... IMO that's a great deal! you gonna pay about 1000-1100 for just the head unless you just happen come across a super good deal... and the cab looks fine to me... AND it's got a Celestion BLUE in it... WONDERFUL speaker paired with the RX JR!!! so even home made, the cab is worth the speaker which new sells for 300.00 by itself... and it looks like the guy did a really really nice job, I also like the vox style grille. Shoot If I didn't already have one and was looking I might jump on that one even though I'm not a big fan of the red amps... good luck and let us know what you end up getting, and how you like it.. Jason
|
|
pauloman80
New Member
Dreaming of Z's...
Posts: 12
|
Post by pauloman80 on Mar 23, 2014 9:19:13 GMT -7
Sweet! I might jump on it then. What kind of room do you think I might have to haggle a bit?
|
|
|
Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 23, 2014 18:45:38 GMT -7
wouldn't hurt to ask what he'd take you never know... but that's a pretty good price IMO.
|
|
pauloman80
New Member
Dreaming of Z's...
Posts: 12
|
Post by pauloman80 on Mar 24, 2014 5:46:21 GMT -7
wouldn't hurt to ask what he'd take you never know... but that's a pretty good price IMO. Cool. I've reached out to the seller. Never done any business on Reverb.com, so I don't know the etiquette there. The seller also doesn't have any kind of rating, but with the work he did on that Z cab and the Bad Cat head & cab he also has listed (same price as the Z and same Vox-style custom cab, he does some great work) it seems he knows what he's doing. =D You've been awesome, Jason. Thanks again. I'll keep you posted!
|
|
pauloman80
New Member
Dreaming of Z's...
Posts: 12
|
Post by pauloman80 on Mar 24, 2014 8:15:38 GMT -7
I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Dr. Z on Reverb.com. WHEW. I decided I didn't want to lose out on something that could be absolutely fantastic. I'll post updates when it arrives & such, and I'll definitely seek advice here should something go wrong. =D Happy to be a part of the Z family! Very excited. Nervous, but excited.
|
|
|
Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Mar 24, 2014 8:44:29 GMT -7
Congrats on getting a great amp. I have two original RXes - love them! One of the things I will,sometimes do with a "new" Dr. Z amp is send it on to Dr. z and his magicians to sprinkle their "magic dust" on. Comes back as good as the day it was born! So if you do end up with any issues (you probably won't have any) just be aware they have your back up in Cleveland!!
|
|
|
Post by kinggabbo on Mar 24, 2014 9:49:02 GMT -7
I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Dr. Z on Reverb.com. WHEW. I decided I didn't want to lose out on something that could be absolutely fantastic. I'll post updates when it arrives & such, and I'll definitely seek advice here should something go wrong. =D Happy to be a part of the Z family! Very excited. Nervous, but excited. Good going! I think that was a great deal.
|
|
|
Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 24, 2014 12:24:10 GMT -7
I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Dr. Z on Reverb.com. WHEW. I decided I didn't want to lose out on something that could be absolutely fantastic. I'll post updates when it arrives & such, and I'll definitely seek advice here should something go wrong. =D Happy to be a part of the Z family! Very excited. Nervous, but excited. Congrats, Im excited for you. Hope everything works out well!
|
|
|
Post by John on Mar 28, 2014 7:19:17 GMT -7
I don't dip into the RxJr forum too much....but I'm surprised that no one mentioned (or perhaps I missed it) a certain aspect of the difference between the tone of the Rx (both ES and JR) and the Stangray.
The Rx has considerable more midrange and overdrive....it's often said it's much more in the Marshall camp. The 'ray is a real clean machine and is known for scooped mids with incredible/powerful clean lows and crispy highs. Much more difficult to get crunch out of it.
I found Jason's comment surprising, about the 'ray having a bit more sag compared to the RxES. I had a 'ray and found it incredibly percussive....but I've never had the opportunity to play an RxES. So I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. And it makes me want to try one!!
|
|
|
Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 29, 2014 13:55:58 GMT -7
I don't dip into the RxJr forum too much....but I'm surprised that no one mentioned (or perhaps I missed it) a certain aspect of the difference between the tone of the Rx (both ES and JR) and the Stangray. The Rx has considerable more midrange and overdrive....it's often said it's much more in the Marshall camp. The 'ray is a real clean machine and is known for scooped mids with incredible/powerful clean lows and crispy highs. Much more difficult to get crunch out of it. I found Jason's comment surprising, about the 'ray having a bit more sag compared to the RxES. I had a 'ray and found it incredibly percussive....but I've never had the opportunity to play an RxES. So I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. And it makes me want to try one!! Well when I said sag I really probably should have said it has more "Bloom"... ( I tend to think and say "sag" to mean both, when to me I guess "Bloom" is really more behind the note and behind the attack as the note rings and sustains) and there can also be some sag before and slightly after the note too... and chime... I still think the Ray had a bit of Sag or softness to the attack ( especially with the NOS rectifiers I used and alnico speakers) while at the same time being percussive, which is really hard to describe with words while much easier to hear and especially feel as you play it... but had more Bloom than the Rx ES. Whereas the RX ES has little to no sag even with NOS rectifiers and Alnico speakers, but does have some nice but different / less bloom to the notes also... the RX ES is to me more percussive and has a more immediate attack than the ray... Some chime in there too. And, as for the mids... I feel like neither one is a real mid heavy amp, but they both have really nice mids and it's really not that one has MORE than the other... It's that both amps mids are voiced very specifically, and that the tone controls boost and cut a very specific range which is different in both amps. I think this is also one of the reasons they sound so good when used together... jmho But honestly if the Zwreck prototype you played that time at Z fest wasn't for you John, you probably wouldn't like the Rx ES either as the prototype Zwreck was cleaner than the production version and not too far from where the RX ES was... to me playing the Zwreck prototype was like playing a Ray and an Rx ES running together.. incredible feel, glorious amp. The production version is that and with more drive on tap than the prototype. The Original RX is the most percussive of ALL of them hands down, end of story. To me it's really the more marshally of them. ... anyway, probably much more "Bloom" to the Ray than really just sag ( more than with the RX ES). best I can describe it but ymmv and jmho...
|
|
|
Post by cap217 on Mar 31, 2014 12:47:56 GMT -7
I don't dip into the RxJr forum too much....but I'm surprised that no one mentioned (or perhaps I missed it) a certain aspect of the difference between the tone of the Rx (both ES and JR) and the Stangray. The Rx has considerable more midrange and overdrive....it's often said it's much more in the Marshall camp. The 'ray is a real clean machine and is known for scooped mids with incredible/powerful clean lows and crispy highs. Much more difficult to get crunch out of it. I found Jason's comment surprising, about the 'ray having a bit more sag compared to the RxES. I had a 'ray and found it incredibly percussive....but I've never had the opportunity to play an RxES. So I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. And it makes me want to try one!! Well when I said sag I really probably should have said it has more "Bloom"... ( I tend to think and say "sag" to mean both, when to me I guess "Bloom" is really more behind the note and behind the attack as the note rings and sustains) and there can also be some sag before and slightly after the note too... and chime... I still think the Ray had a bit of Sag or softness to the attack ( especially with the NOS rectifiers I used and alnico speakers) while at the same time being percussive, which is really hard to describe with words while much easier to hear and especially feel as you play it... but had more Bloom than the Rx ES. Whereas the RX ES has little to no sag even with NOS rectifiers and Alnico speakers, but does have some nice but different / less bloom to the notes also... the RX ES is to me more percussive and has a more immediate attack than the ray... Some chime in there too. And, as for the mids... I feel like neither one is a real mid heavy amp, but they both have really nice mids and it's really not that one has MORE than the other... It's that both amps mids are voiced very specifically, and that the tone controls boost and cut a very specific range which is different in both amps. I think this is also one of the reasons they sound so good when used together... jmho But honestly if the Zwreck prototype you played that time at Z fest wasn't for you John, you probably wouldn't like the Rx ES either as the prototype Zwreck was cleaner than the production version and not too far from where the RX ES was... to me playing the Zwreck prototype was like playing a Ray and an Rx ES running together.. incredible feel, glorious amp. The production version is that and with more drive on tap than the prototype. The Original RX is the most percussive of ALL of them hands down, end of story. To me it's really the more marshally of them. ... anyway, probably much more "Bloom" to the Ray than really just sag ( more than with the RX ES). best I can describe it but ymmv and jmho... The wreck is like running a ray and rxes together? I own them all and I have to say this is probably the best tone statement you could make.
|
|