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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 13:42:34 GMT -7
I've been wondering if an amp would sound noticeably different if it had different power tubes. For instance, take a MAZ18 and replace the EL84's with 6V6's, or 5881's, etc. Same circuit, just different tubes. I had a discussion with someone who said it would make no difference whatsoever. I have my doubts and thought I'd ask the Z brain trust!
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Post by big ( Al Z. ) on Dec 12, 2013 14:39:55 GMT -7
I had a Univalve and a Fargen Mini Plex in the past and different types of tubes in those can certainly makes a difference. I had the Fargen for quite awhile and could hear differences in some tube quite easily - others not so much. A friend of mine couldn't really hear too much difference no matter what I put in. The key thing is can YOU hear the difference.
You're talking about different types of tubes. Others will talk about the same tube but different brands or even where you buy them from. All are valid and oddly enough my ears aren't quite as good as the used to be - Thank goodness.
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Post by zpilot on Dec 12, 2013 22:24:44 GMT -7
It absolutely does makes a difference. The difference between a 6V6 and a 6L6 won't be as great as between either of those and a EL84 or EL34. If it didn't make a difference, why are there so many different ones?
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Post by greenblues58 on Dec 13, 2013 2:22:54 GMT -7
I have recently purchased a Blackstar ID series amp and would suggest you check out some of the demos on youtube. It enables you to select from 6 different tube type emulations and gives the corresponding differences in response you might expect. You can also selection from 6 different preamp type responses ie clean,crunch,OD etc. It is a fantastic bit of kit. I walked into a store recently and a guy was playing some SRV style stuff with a strat at tv volume levels and it was very full and fat sounding and that nice on the edge drive when you dig in. I walked out with the 15 watt practice combo and its impressive kit for the money. Down loaded a Billy G patch from their website and its spot on with a Lester. It ain't bad either with the master volume up either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 5:07:05 GMT -7
Thanks, guys. We're all on the same page it seems, but I guess I didn't communicate my points well enough. I had a Top Hat amp for a while where I could switch between 6V6, 6L6, EL34, etc. There was a volume difference, but the tone difference was subtle. I've never tried 6V6 to EL84, but if it didn't give a tonal difference why would they make the Yellow Jacket? We'll see if the topic ever comes up again.
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Post by myles on Dec 22, 2013 10:39:07 GMT -7
Power tubes have less impact than folks realize.
6L6 tubes? Mesa Boogie Rectifier ... Soldano SLO100 .... Fender Twin Reverb. All 6L6 amps.
EL34? Dynaco stereo - Marshall amps.
EL84? Fender Blues Jr. (grid biased), Mini-Z, Carmen Ghia, Scott Hifi, Dynaco stereo, Vox AC15.
It would make a difference. You would loose tone, articulation and spend money to rebias and make other changes perhaps. Your output transformer would no longer match the tube plate impedance.
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Post by zpilot on Dec 22, 2013 12:24:51 GMT -7
Thanks, guys. We're all on the same page it seems, but I guess I didn't communicate my points well enough. I had a Top Hat amp for a while where I could switch between 6V6, 6L6, EL34, etc. There was a volume difference, but the tone difference was subtle. I've never tried 6V6 to EL84, but if it didn't give a tonal difference why would they make the Yellow Jacket? We'll see if the topic ever comes up again. Yes, I agree with Myles that power tubes have less effect on SOUND than things like 1st stage gain tubes and loudspeakers. Especially when played clean. But what I notice is how they FEEL and react when overdriven. Hi-fi amps aren't that critical about what tube type they are designed around because they don't usually get driven to the point where they clip like guitar amps do. I've played around with changing tubes in BF Fender Bassman heads from the stock 6L6's to KT66's and EL34's. The transformer mismatch certainly accounts for some of the differences I found. It was fun experimenting but I learned that it was best to stay close to whatever the amp was designed for.
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Post by myles on Dec 23, 2013 10:58:45 GMT -7
Thanks, guys. We're all on the same page it seems, but I guess I didn't communicate my points well enough. I had a Top Hat amp for a while where I could switch between 6V6, 6L6, EL34, etc. There was a volume difference, but the tone difference was subtle. I've never tried 6V6 to EL84, but if it didn't give a tonal difference why would they make the Yellow Jacket? We'll see if the topic ever comes up again. Yes, I agree with Myles that power tubes have less effect on SOUND than things like 1st stage gain tubes and loudspeakers. Especially when played clean. But what I notice is how they FEEL and react when overdriven. Hi-fi amps aren't that critical about what tube type they are designed around because they don't usually get driven to the point where they clip like guitar amps do. I've played around with changing tubes in BF Fender Bassman heads from the stock 6L6's to KT66's and EL34's. The transformer mismatch certainly accounts for some of the differences I found. It was fun experimenting but I learned that it was best to stay close to whatever the amp was designed for. I think you meant that hifi amps are not designed to clip as guitar amps do.
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Post by zpilot on Dec 23, 2013 11:26:37 GMT -7
Sometimes my mouth (or keyboard) gets ahead of my brain.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2013 12:05:59 GMT -7
Thanks again, guys. Just to clarify, I wasn't thinking about converting my MAZ to 6V6's. I just used it as an example of a circuit. I figured transformers, etc, would have to change. With that in mind, I suppose you'd have to change enough components to accommodate the different power tubes that the tone probably would change. It basically wouldn't be the same circuit at that point.
Enough thinking and back to playing . . . .
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Post by smolder on Dec 23, 2013 12:18:13 GMT -7
They aren't so much tone shapers... but do have an effect. I've built a couple of amps designed for EL84's with 6V6's instead. I think they overdrive smoother, warmer, and less brassy.
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Post by myles on Dec 23, 2013 16:00:53 GMT -7
They aren't so much tone shapers... but do have an effect. I've built a couple of amps designed for EL84's with 6V6's instead. I think they overdrive smoother, warmer, and less brassy. The EL84 is a bit lower wattage, compresses faster. The 6V6 will get those great chimey tones in the right circuit, will produce a bit more wattage and have more clean headroom.
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