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Post by ruger9 on Nov 18, 2006 19:24:25 GMT -7
Posted this in a couple other forums, because it kind of crosses lines between an AMP question & a SPEAKER question...
I found this in another thread (posted by billyguitar): "Some people say that at 16 ohms you're using the whole transformer and it should sound better. I believe that the lower impedance ratings use taps that don't use the whole transformer. "
And was wondering if it's true, because I'm going to be buying a Z head in the (hopefully) near future, but I'll probably be getting a cab somewhere else & loading it myself... in order to pick the right ohm speakers & wiring, I was curious if the above statement was true? "using the 'whole' transformer" certainly sounds like a better idea...?
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Post by mudskipper on Nov 19, 2006 6:32:19 GMT -7
I found this in another thread (posted by billyguitar): "Some people say that at 16 ohms you're using the whole transformer and it should sound better. I believe that the lower impedance ratings use taps that don't use the whole transformer. " And was wondering if it's true, because I'm going to be buying a Z head in the (hopefully) near future, but I'll probably be getting a cab somewhere else & loading it myself... in order to pick the right ohm speakers & wiring, I was curious if the above statement was true? "using the 'whole' transformer" certainly sounds like a better idea...? yup, it works something like that. as for which tap sound "BETTER", i'd say the tap you like the best would be better than the other tap(s). there isn't really a definitive rules. they all do sound a little different from each other. you can hear it if you take the same speaker in different load ratings. for example, take the Tonker in 8 and 16 ohm put them in the same 1x12 cab, one at a time, then compare how they sound. if you want to compare the sound of each tap, i think the most productive comparison would be to do the above in different wiring configs to determine which one YOU like the best with your amp. don't deviate in the speakers you would be using, though. otherwise you have another ingredient to deal with. and don't take advices from some dudes on the 'net who don't have your hands and ears, let alone your gears. don't let anything "technical" cloud your judgement. what would you do if you liked the sound of 4 ohm load into a 4 ohm tap? i'd say as long as you're matching the load with the same OT tap, go with whatever you like.
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Post by hdahs143 on Nov 19, 2006 10:59:18 GMT -7
www.thdelectronics.com/pdf/Flexi-50_Lit.pdfIf you read this literature, it states something about being able to power any cab from 2-16 ohms, and use 100% of the transformers's windings all the time, which is a THD innovation. If you contact them and speak to Andy Marshall (founder), he may be able to fill you in with more detailed info on this subject. Harold
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Post by ruger9 on Nov 19, 2006 14:52:57 GMT -7
if you want to compare the sound of each tap, i think the most productive comparison would be to do the above in different wiring configs to determine which one YOU like the best with your amp. don't deviate in the speakers you would be using, though. otherwise you have another ingredient to deal with. But that's the problem- if I'm going to be building/buying a 2x12 cab, I kind of have to decide on what ohms the cab will run at BEFORE I buy the speakers. For example, there's no way to wire 2-16ohm speakers to get 4 ohms. So that's I why I was wondering about the tone differences in the whole "use the whole transformer" thing. I guess a shortcut would be to ask what ohms the 2x12 cabs the Doc sells are... what ohms are the speakers, and are they wired series or parallel for what ohm rating on the cab?
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Post by mudskipper on Nov 19, 2006 17:51:22 GMT -7
But that's the problem- if I'm going to be building/buying a 2x12 cab, I kind of have to decide on what ohms the cab will run at BEFORE I buy the speakers. For example, there's no way to wire 2-16ohm speakers to get 4 ohms. So that's I why I was wondering about the tone differences in the whole "use the whole transformer" thing. you can always use a matching transformer from Weber. it's supposed to be transparent, just doing the imp matching. taweber.powweb.com/store/zmatch.htmif you use his attenuator, apparently you can safely mis-match, too. so there's some more possibilities. I guess a shortcut would be to ask what ohms the 2x12 cabs the Doc sells are... what ohms are the speakers, and are they wired series or parallel for what ohm rating on the cab? well, you've got a several things on your plate, right? total Z of the cab, wiring, what speaker, etc, etc..... i know as a fact, that different OT tap sound different but what i can't tell you or rather what you have to determine for yourself is that which tap is going to sound the best to you. i tend to use either 8 or 16 ohm tap on all of my amps, except for when i have an additional cab hooked up to my BF Deluxe, then the amp is running at 4-ohms. they all sound great to me. for all intent and purposes, they would sound pretty close. it'd be close enough that with your band kicking behind you, it would be hard to tell the difference. a lot of people do the parallel wiring with 2x12 so that if one speaker fails, there's still the other one going. i've often had them wired in series and haven't had an occasion to have one of the speakers blow. but i'm not gigging every night with my amp at 11, either. series vs parallel wiring thing would be something else for you to think about. the best solution would be to not worry about how much of the OT winding you are using. the chances are you've got other things that effects/shapes the final tone a lot more than which tap you use.
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Post by ruger9 on Nov 19, 2006 19:09:52 GMT -7
I've seen the weber matcher, thought about that. I wasn't aware that the Weber attenuators also offered the same "impedence doesn't matter" factor as the Airbrake did. I do use a Mini-Mass currently.
I figured I'll be going parallel instead of serial, just from reading descriptions. My current amp is wired series-parallel, so that's not much help.
My big concern was:
1) does "using the whole transformer" actually sound "better", which unfortunately I can't hear for myself until I have (apparently) 4 different speakers that I can wire for either 4, 8, or 16 ohms... depending on which Z I buy (looking at the RxES which has 4,8,16 taps, and the MazJr, which has...?)
2) SO... since I am certainly not going to sink that much cash into speaker experiments (since I'll be sinking all of my money into a Z & a Blue/Silver cab), I guess the next best thing for me to do is ask... on a Z 2x12 cab, what is the impedence of the cab, and does anyone know what the wiring is (parallel or series)? That will at least give me what the "stock" setup is...
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Post by hdahs143 on Nov 20, 2006 9:57:38 GMT -7
I'm not sure there is a standard. On my Zbest it was 8 ohms, but other guys had 4 ohm cabs. On his open back cabs with Blues, he has them at 4 ohms. Your best bet is to buy two 8 ohm speakers. That way you can wire them in series for a 16 ohm load, or in parallel for a 4 ohm load. With 2-16 ohm speakers you do not have the same flexibility, as you can only wire them in parallel for an 8 ohm load. Just a thought. Harold
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