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Post by Hohn on Nov 7, 2006 1:40:33 GMT -7
After listening to some sound clips of my amp demos, I've really concluded that I like the sound of a little speaker tone and hence I love Celestion Blues.
My 2x12 is an open-back Z cab w/ said Blues.
I have an open back 1x12 extension cab that I'd like to run simultaneously with the Z open back cab.
So I'm looking for a speaker for my open back 1x12 that will complement my 2x12 open back w/ Blues.
I want it to sound huge and open with big bottom, but not too much flab down low (a little is OK, lol). Do I even need to worry about bass with 3 12" speakers running all the time in open back cabs??
I've noticed that I never do the surgically-clean thing-- all my "cleans" have a tiny bit of breakup in them if I get my druthers. So the EVM is not a good match for my tastes in this case.
Any recommendations are welcome. I was thinking Weber Ceramic silver bell, light dope 50w (50w so I can use this 1x12 by itself with the Ray). ......
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Nov 7, 2006 7:01:47 GMT -7
Well what's the impedance on your 2x12 cab? If it's already at 4 ohms, like mine, it seems to me you're done unless you get some kind of gizmo like that Weber thingy that matches impedances.
If your cab is at 16 ohms, you would want a 16 ohm speaker in the extension cab, but it's going to get more power than either of your blues when you're done. Can't be helped.
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Post by mudskipper on Nov 7, 2006 8:00:50 GMT -7
i think a Silver Bell would be a pretty good choice if you want to add a bit of punch and fill in the sound of the Blues. it might not be sensitive enough, though.
don't discount the EVMs, however. they crunch pretty well and they aren't just for super clean sounds. they do like to be pushed a bit, though.
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Post by zdogma on Nov 7, 2006 8:14:49 GMT -7
Agree with benttop, be careful with the impedences. You could run a 8 ohm 212 with a 8 ohm 112 no problem thru the 4 ohm tap, but if your 212 cab is already 4, you may be snookered.
Email the doc or Weber, both are helpful guys, and might give you a suggestion.
I have used a 30 watt G12H in a 212 with a blue and it did exactly what you have described, firmed up the lows and added a bit of punch.
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Post by Hohn on Nov 7, 2006 9:45:34 GMT -7
the only reason I'm considering this is because my 2x12 is 16 ohms.
The EVM is 8 ohms, so I need to swap it for another 16 ohm driver to make it all work.
Justin
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Post by zdogma on Nov 7, 2006 10:45:18 GMT -7
Sounds fine. I'd try a G12H or one of the big magnet Webers like a G1230-55. Louder, for better balance with the blues and more bottom end than the silver bell.
Scott
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Nov 7, 2006 13:37:27 GMT -7
Ahhhh, now your talking my language... I love mixing em up... adding an extra speaker...stuff like that.
The G12 H30 would sound great with that... but,
I would like the ceramic version of the Weber Blue dog at 50 watts... be suprised at how tight the bottom is and would sound killer with those blues already going... this speaker sounds great with the Stingray... OR
AND I wouldn't count out a 50 watt weber ALNICO bluedog... will get a little warmer sound, great bottom...still sound different than the stock Blues and if you just want to use the 1x12 with the Stingray then you couldn't ask for a better single speaker!!
I like the Blues/ blue dogs with the Stingray as opposed to the Silverbell... I love the silverbell and it's nice with the Stingray too (killer with the Maz/ RX and paired with a Bluedog for the Ray)... but the RAY has soo much bottom end... if you go with a Silverbell I'd lean towards the ceramic version in 50 watt...
Lastly... what about the new Celestion Gold? possible... but I guess pretty close to what you've already got...
for what your talking about, I would like the 50 watt Bluedog in Ceramic or Alnico... I've actually used my RAY that way (blues with a 50 watt Blue dog /both ceramic and Alnico versions) and it's sweet.
and I also have a 50 watt Alnico silverbell in my Z 1x12 and it sounds great with the exact set-up you describe... so I guess you really can't go wrong with any of these including the alnico silverbell.... and it works just like your thinking it does... is a very loud, big sound.
I also ran my Ray like your talking through my 2x12 w/ blues and also to one 50 watt alnico Bluedog thats one speaker in my THD cab... just for fun, I then ran my RX ES to the other 12" speaker in the THD cab which was a 50 watt Alnico silverbell.... NICE! BIG!! three 12" speakers for the RAY and the one 12" Silver for the RX.... ;D ;D
OK OK... sorry so long but I LOVE speaker swapping with different amps and especially with the DR Z's... Fun.
Hohn, let us know what you end up getting and how you like it....
Jason
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Post by Hohn on Nov 7, 2006 22:33:06 GMT -7
Let me expound on my thinking a little I love the sound of Blues. I just want it to sound bigger, maybe a little rounder. How does that translated into a complimentary speaker?
Well, I'm thinking ceramic would compliment the Blues nicely, since I've been told that ceramics generally have more bottom. Of course, the flip side to this is that if you like the sound of Alinicos, why wouldn't you just add another? Should you get a "bigger" sound just by virtue of the extra driver?
The Gold is an interesting option, and is REALLY appealing, because I'd be able to get the sound I want AND also get a speaker that's rated over 30W so I can use by 1x12 by itself with the Ray. Minus 10 points for the Gold though, because it's priced like its namesake!
The Weber is probably the best option all-around, as you get a lot of choices in power handling, doping, magnet choice, etc all to help you get EXACTLY what you're looking for. They are reasonably priced for an Alnico speaker that's got some great tones in it.
A cheaper option is an Emi unit, but I have no idea what would compare to a Blue (a Redcoat, maybe?). Does emi have any Alnico units? (I'm sure a site surf could tell me).
At 300w, the EVM is just not what I need. Also, that's a HUGE speaker to lug around for a 30w amp-- it weighs like 16 pounds, no kidding. I could easily drop 10# off the weight of my 1x12 (a significant improvement) while improving the sound to better match my needs and wants.
I bought that EVM back when I really didn't know any better, and just wanted to upgrade my little Classic 30. That it did, but I'm older, wiser and have a little more money to play with.
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Post by zdogma on Nov 8, 2006 6:40:10 GMT -7
Eminence makes lots of speakers that would fit the bill, and they sound excellent despite the low price. A Wizard, which is a big magnet ceramic, 75 watts, would work nicely (sounds a lot like a G12H but with a bit stiffer cone/more doping), for well under $100.
In alnico they make the red fang, a 30 watter, which will hold up to the stang, i've tried it, and has a bit more defined lows. Trouble is, I've used it with a blue, and they just don't sound very good together. Not sure why, because its a great sounding speaker on its own.
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Post by mudskipper on Nov 8, 2006 7:19:12 GMT -7
well, a plenty of AlNiCo speakers have tons of bass, Red Fang, the Gold, Silver Bell (as you've mentioned), D120F, etc, etc,.... ceramic speakers are lot more in-your-face in many respects, though. and i think that translates to perceived volume increase in the low frequencies.
it's been my experience that one would get "bigger" sounds when s/he mixes the speakers rather than just adding more of the same. you can get the same kind of effect when you mix open and closed back cabs, too, even with all the same speakers.
Weber would be the best bang for the buck and you now can custom order every aspects of the speaker(s) that you want. the problem with more "impressionistic crowd" such as myself is that i wouldn't know exactly what each ingredient would get translated. the sound isn't an exact math after all.
if you want to stay in the British side of things, also investigate Weber's Tames. it's their interpretation of Fane speakers as i understand it. his P12N/C12N speakers (12A150/12F150) goes quite well with Voxy, for a lack of better terms, amps. yes it's an unusual choice, i know.
Red Fang is the only AlNiCo Emi speakers available to the public as far as i know. from their doc, their Commonwealth (D120F) is ceramic.
If you go the Emi route, you'd have even more choices. i currently use a Red Fang and The Tonker. they are both great. i also have a ToneKing speaker that i love which is OEM'ed by Eminence.
regardless of where you go, i'd recommend you spend some $ and get a few speakers to try. i know it's a costly proposition but product descriptions, soundclips and recommendations by others can only take you 1/8 of the way there at best.
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Post by Hohn on Nov 8, 2006 19:10:43 GMT -7
Speaker swapping is something I'm hoping to minimize, but I have to agree with you that it's kind of a necessary evil. I'll probably just go with something similar (but not the same) as my Blues, and stick with it no matter what.
I don't have the kind of money it would take to do a proper speaker test, so I'll need to choose wisely right off. The EVM was not a wise choice for my playing style, but I bought it when I was much younger and didn't really know myself as a player.
jh
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