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Post by z4me on Mar 19, 2013 10:39:37 GMT -7
Has anyone tried EL844 power tubes in their Ray? For those that are not aware, this tube is a lower power variant to EL84s. There is no issue with using the EL844's in Z amps and there are a few threads on the forum regarding these tubes; even some test results from the Doc himself.
According to my conversation with Eurotubes yesterday, the perceived loudness of the amp will be slightly less with the EL844, maybe 1 db less over EL84s which is not much. However, the EL844s will reduce the clean headroom by a much more noticeable amount. For those of us that cannot get the volume of the Ray anywhere near break up to get a little hair on the notes, this may be a good option.
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Post by drew on Mar 23, 2013 14:06:51 GMT -7
This is my first time hearing about the el844 so I have no info for you but thank you for sharing. I did a little research, quite the controversial tube! I see where Dr Z stated he liked them in quads, cool for Stangray players, and that it had less top end cut and more low end fullness. Interesting.
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Post by Albert on Mar 23, 2013 14:13:25 GMT -7
Myles has discussed this on the forum. ..do a search. ..pretty much this is a sub par tube that didn't make the spec of a el84 tube. .use at your own risk. ..
Sent from my LG-E970 using proboards
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Post by aaron1433 on Mar 23, 2013 20:18:30 GMT -7
more low end a stangray needs not!
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Post by z4me on Mar 24, 2013 12:16:46 GMT -7
Myles has discussed this on the forum. ..do a search. ..pretty much this is a sub par tube that didn't make the spec of a el84 tube. .use at your own risk. .. Sent from my LG-E970 using proboards According to Eurotubes, Eurotubes specifically asked JJ Electronics if they could design a tube that would drop into an EL84 based amp that will saturate or distort earlier. JJ came up with a design that worked and the EL844 is a new production tube. I read the posts from Myles and his take on the tube is theoretical with what appears to be no hands on testing or background knowledge on the tube itself. The EL84 and EL844 tubes supposedly don't even look the same. If this is the case, the EL844 can't be a sub par EL84 tube. Now the Doc actually performed some tests and provided real results. IMHO, there is a big difference between this is what I think it probably is versus I actually tested this out and here are my results. I would like to see an official test from Myles to get a more scientific result and facts regarding the tube itself. There are also other postings on the forum from members stating that they use the tube and are happy with it. Just did not see any feedback from Stangray owners yet. The link with this EL844 background from Eurotubes for research purposes. The link has the posts from Myles and DRZ: www.eurotubes.com/eurotubes-EL844-JJ-Electronic.htmI agree with aaron1433's comment that the Stangray definitely does not need any more low end. Plenty of low end on tap.
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Post by Albert on Mar 24, 2013 14:54:39 GMT -7
Myles has discussed this on the forum. ..do a search. ..pretty much this is a sub par tube that didn't make the spec of a el84 tube. .use at your own risk. .. Sent from my LG-E970 using proboards According to Eurotubes, Eurotubes specifically asked JJ Electronics if they could design a tube that would drop into an EL84 based amp that will saturate or distort earlier. JJ came up with a design that worked and the EL844 is a new production tube. I read the posts from Myles and his take on the tube is theoretical with what appears to be no hands on testing or background knowledge on the tube itself. The EL84 and EL844 tubes supposedly don't even look the same. If this is the case, the EL844 can't be a sub par EL84 tube. Now the Doc actually performed some tests and provided real results. IMHO, there is a big difference between this is what I think it probably is versus I actually tested this out and here are my results. I would like to see an official test from Myles to get a more scientific result and facts regarding the tube itself. There are also other postings on the forum from members stating that they use the tube and are happy with it. Just did not see any feedback from Stangray owners yet. The link with this EL844 background from Eurotubes for research purposes. The link has the posts from Myles and DRZ: www.eurotubes.com/eurotubes-EL844-JJ-Electronic.htmI agree with aaron1433's comment that the Stangray definitely does not need any more low end. Plenty of low end on tap. Don't shoot the messenger ...just providing info ... I value Myles opinion because he has been in the business for a long time and has seen it all ... I am skeptical as well as I have been an electrical engineer for over 30 years and when I see things like this it makes me wonder as well ... also I am a gigging musician and I would not trust this tube in my amp ...
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Post by z4me on Mar 24, 2013 17:43:56 GMT -7
Hey Albert, definitely not shooting at you, a Z bro messenger. I hope that my reply did not come off that way, and if it did, there was nothing like that intended. I am just seeking info and your and others opinions and info is what allows our community to make informed decisions. I too value Myles opinion due to his vast experience, but to be honest, I was disappointed to see how he came to the conclusion of calling the tube substandard without what seems like more research or only looking at the data sheet. I like to see facts ad up and this conclusion does not ad up to me. However, with your knowledge in this area, you may be seeing something of which I am not aware. I am also a gigging musician and I would trust a production JJ tube in my amp if I opt to go with less clean headroom in the amp. Just not sure yet. Also feel more trusting of the tube after the Doc's test results and the tubes passing his torture testing. Add to that Eurotubes, the tube store and other forum member's good test results. If the results came back mixed, I would just move on. During my conversation with Eurotubes, they emphasized a few times to ensure I understood, that the volume drop would not be that noticeable, but rather the lower power tubes cause a drop in the clean headroom of the amp. Thus we would not have to turn up the amp as loud to get into breakup. For example, if the Stangray starts breaking up at 1 o'clock or so, can't remember, then with the EL844's maybe starts getting breakup at 10 or 11 o'clock on the volume knob. I am just guessing at the volume settings in the example. To me, correct me if I am missing something here, the EL844 can't be a substandard EL84 tube that did not meet specs. Look at the photos from the tube store below. Not even close in appearance, it is not the same tube. EL84: www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/EL84-6BQ5-Tube-Types/JJ-EL84-6BQ5EL844: www.thetubestore.com/JJ-EL844-low-power-EL84The Tube Store EL844 review: www.thetubestore.com/EL84-Tube-Review#jjel844Thanks, Jerry
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Post by Albert on Mar 25, 2013 8:19:46 GMT -7
Hey Albert, definitely not shooting at you, a Z bro messenger. I hope that my reply did not come off that way, and if it did, there was nothing like that intended. I am just seeking info and your and others opinions and info is what allows our community to make informed decisions. I too value Myles opinion due to his vast experience, but to be honest, I was disappointed to see how he came to the conclusion of calling the tube substandard without what seems like more research or only looking at the data sheet. I like to see facts ad up and this conclusion does not ad up to me. However, with your knowledge in this area, you may be seeing something of which I am not aware. I am also a gigging musician and I would trust a production JJ tube in my amp if I opt to go with less clean headroom in the amp. Just not sure yet. Also feel more trusting of the tube after the Doc's test results and the tubes passing his torture testing. Add to that Eurotubes, the tube store and other forum member's good test results. If the results came back mixed, I would just move on. During my conversation with Eurotubes, they emphasized a few times to ensure I understood, that the volume drop would not be that noticeable, but rather the lower power tubes cause a drop in the clean headroom of the amp. Thus we would not have to turn up the amp as loud to get into breakup. For example, if the Stangray starts breaking up at 1 o'clock or so, can't remember, then with the EL844's maybe starts getting breakup at 10 or 11 o'clock on the volume knob. I am just guessing at the volume settings in the example. To me, correct me if I am missing something here, the EL844 can't be a substandard EL84 tube that did not meet specs. Look at the photos from the tube store below. Not even close in appearance, it is not the same tube. EL84: www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/EL84-6BQ5-Tube-Types/JJ-EL84-6BQ5EL844: www.thetubestore.com/JJ-EL844-low-power-EL84The Tube Store EL844 review: www.thetubestore.com/EL84-Tube-Review#jjel844Thanks, Jerry Thanks Jerry ... just want you to have all the info to make an informed decision and yes these tubes will work in the el84 based amps ...
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Post by eggman on Mar 27, 2013 9:31:12 GMT -7
Howdy,
I don't yet trust this tube. For new production make mine a Sovtek; they're no tone monster, but I trust 'em. YMMV.
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