mikek
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Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Jul 7, 2006 10:12:38 GMT -7
Hey guys. This is my first post here, but I've been reading this wonderful wealth of knowledge for quite sometime. I recently ordered my first Dr. Z amp, a RxES head. I'm thrilled about it, and I'm glad to be part of this wonderful forum now.
In anticipation of receiving this amp, I'd like your guys' wisdom on a speaker compliment for the RxES. I play a lot of jazz, but lean more toward the tonalities of guys like Bill Frisell, John Scofield, and Larry Cartlon than guys like Barney Kessel, Jim Hall, Joe Pass. In other words, I like harmonically rich tones that aren't as dull as most others. I like headroom and complex cleans....
I currently have a 2x12 Avatar premier open-back cabinet, and I'd like to get some new speakers to mate with the RxES. I'd like something to sort of tame the high-end, and smooth things out a little bit.
What do you think? - Weber ceramic Silver Bell/ceramic Blue Dog - Celestion G12H30/Vintage 30
I spoke with Ted Weber about this, and he recommended the ceramic Silver Bell/Blue Dog combination...but my dealer recommended the Celestions.
Any help and expertise you can share will be greatly appreciated.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 7, 2006 11:15:18 GMT -7
I can't take celestion cone-cry so I'd go with the Webers, and the Webers are american.
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Post by dei305 on Jul 7, 2006 11:58:20 GMT -7
mikek, welcome to the Z family and one of the best forums available today. Amen to what Billy said! Go with the Webers! Rick
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2006 12:12:37 GMT -7
Hi MikeK, I would recommend the Webers. Now I have not tried the ceramic versions of the Blues/Silverbell but I have tried the Alnico versions with the RXES I had and thought it sounded amazing. I actually preferred it over the Z-Best after a long and lengthy shoot out. Don't get me wrong I love the Z-best especially with something like the Route66 or Z-28. I just felt the open back with the Webers sounded like pure magic with the RXES for my tastes which I think lean towards what you like Mike. If I needed a more agressive, rock edge to my sound then I feel you can't go wrong with the Z-Best w/Celestions. The Doc is not very impressed with the Ceramic versions of the Weber Bluedog/silverbell but loves the Alnicos. He recommended I go with the Alnicos in my MAZ38. So if you can afford to I would go with the Alnico speakers. You will not be disappointed. If you want 'harmonically rich tones' and 'headroom and complex cleans' then I feel the Alnicos will give more of that than the ceramics. Pesonally I think the ceramics are probably great as well, they will respond a little differently that's all. The Alnico's have a very musical compression that makes the RXES feel and respond like a Dumble-like amp giving you a very rich but very articulate clean sound or a very pure smooth overdrive. You can get nasty with it too though! Also the amp was designed somewhat around the use of 50 watt Weber Alnicos so you can't go wrong. I recently tried the amp out with an amazing Larry Carlton es-335 and it smoked. I am mostly a Strat/Tele player and I love Frisell's sound. The RXES with the Alnico webers got some amazing frisellian tones for sure. The RXES with the Boost engaged got some great Scofield tones out of the bridge pickup of the 335. Love those webers man.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Jul 7, 2006 12:34:08 GMT -7
MikeK, Welcome to the forum!! and you've got a great amp... another vote for the WEBERS!! and specifically the 50 WATT BLUE / SILVER ALNICO which is my favorite combination for the RX ES and the original RX... perfect match IMHO! DOC and BRAD GOT IT RIGHT.... ;D I got WEBERS to tame the brightness and they did just that and a WHOLE lot more... I DO like the Celestion G12H30/Vintage 30 combination in the Z-BEST ... but I'd go with the webers in an open back 2x12 Z cab... AND I DO like the ceramic WEBER Blue / Silver's VERY much... they have a little more punch than the alnico's... and a little more clean headroom but still WARM UP the sound... I'd take the CERAMIC WEBERS OVER THE CERAMIC CELESTIONS If I really wanted a CERAMIC speaker... I think the ALNICO is PERFECT for the RX amps cause they are SO punchy and a little bright already... Jason
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mikek
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Jul 7, 2006 13:26:57 GMT -7
WOW.... This forum is great. Thanks for the quick and informative posts guys. Hearing about real-world experiences with all of these speakers is really valuable. The fact that you all recommended the same thing for what I'm looking for says something . It looks like I'll be going with the Weber Silver Bell/Blue Dog in 50w Alnico format. This should be pretty sweet.... I may have to save a little longer, but I might as well be happy with what I've got. Thanks again guys, I really appreciate it!
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Post by RC on Jul 7, 2006 13:39:55 GMT -7
I pulled the G12H30 and V30 out of my Z-best and replaced them with a Weber 30 watt Ceramic Silver/ Blue Lt Dope pair. The Weber's are a huge improvement they tamed the harsh brightness and no cone cry. I personally don't think the new V30's sound anything like the older ones.
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Post by dock66 on Jul 8, 2006 0:30:00 GMT -7
Mikek,welcome to the forum and congrats on your new RxES purchase.You are going to rock with this amp.This BEAST is loud and I would recommend an air brake to go along with it.Awesome amp.I have mine for awhile now and I still love it .It is a keeper amp.Webers are good chioce for speakers.Here is one karma for you to start with.
dock66.
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Post by guitarstan on Jul 8, 2006 7:25:19 GMT -7
Welcome to this wonderful Forum where you will find tons of free G.A.S. I echo all of the above altho my Z experience is limited to the Maz Sr and not the RXES. I have the 30 watt no dope alnico Webers blue & silver and I have no cone cry and great tone. If you are going to push the speakers very hard in the upper registers you might want the dope if not then add a little more complexity to your tone without the dampening effect.
For a more aggressive tone I prefer a ceramic speaker and I choose Tone Tubby's, BTW they guarantee no cone cry without using dope. I am sure the Webers cook too.
Good luck! Stan
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Post by taswegian on Jul 8, 2006 8:14:49 GMT -7
Haven't heard the Webers but I also haven't heard a cab that sounds better for what I like than my ZBest with G12H30/V30 combination. But I'm going for a more classic rock tone, although my friend who happens to be one of Australia's finest jazz players has played my 66 and stock Z best twice and his jazz tone was beautiful.
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Post by real.sladdi on Jul 9, 2006 7:02:21 GMT -7
After checking out a lot of speaker combos I'm using with my MAZ Sr. a G12H30/ Emi Red Fang Combo. It's IMO best of both worlds (no, I don't mean the Cel. and Emi worlds... ;D): The great bottom end of the Ceramic G12H30 and the sweet highs of the Alnico Red Fang. The speakers have the same loudness, none of them is too dominant over the other. (I've also tried the Emi Tonker in place of the G12H and it was "killing" the Red Fang... What a loud bastard - but perfect in my oversized 1x12 cab.)
BTW it is an affordable pair of speakers too, esp. the Red Fang is a real bargain with 50 $...
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mikek
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Jul 11, 2006 8:52:18 GMT -7
Thanks again for all of the input and advice. I was at Mass Street Music in Lawrence yesterday, and they had a Tone Tubby cab loaded with a 40w Alnico speaker. That thing sounded pretty amazing...but I digress . After talking with the great guys there, and listening to your experiences the Alnico Silver Bell/Blue Dog combo looks like the one for me. Now I just have to decide between doped or non-doped.... By the way, have I mentioned you guys have a great forum set up here .
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Post by RC on Jul 11, 2006 11:48:51 GMT -7
Mikek- I think you'll be real happy with the silver/ blue combo. When I ordered mine Ted Weber strongly suggested I get them with the lite dope but mine were going into a closed back Z-best cab so I don't know if that makes a difference compared to an open back. I'd send Ted an e-mail and ask his opinion to be sure. One last thing when you first get them don't panic they take a good 10 hours of aggressive playing to brake in and settle down but believe me it's worth it.
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mikek
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Aug 2, 2006 4:51:04 GMT -7
Well, my Weber speakers arrived yesterday. I went with a 50w Alnico Blue Dog with light dope and a 50w Alnico Silver Bell with light dope. I installed them into my cabinet, and let it rip. I was floored. I've never heard speakers, or a combination thereof, sound so full-frequency and smooth at the same time. Many times, it seems like you have to trade slight harshness, spikes, or boominess to get a full-frequency sound. Not so with these guys.... Every thing sounded nice and smooth. Extremely musical throughout the range of the guitar. This is even better than I had hoped for. Thanks to all of you for making this recommendation. I can't wait to hear it with my RxES (I'll pick that guy up on Saturday!).
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Post by JChance on Aug 5, 2006 9:12:06 GMT -7
Well, my Weber speakers arrived yesterday. I went with a 50w Alnico Blue Dog with light dope and a 50w Alnico Silver Bell with light dope. I installed them into my cabinet, and let it rip. I was floored. I've never heard speakers, or a combination thereof, sound so full-frequency and smooth at the same time. Many times, it seems like you have to trade slight harshness, spikes, or boominess to get a full-frequency sound. Not so with these guys.... Every thing sounded nice and smooth. Extremely musical throughout the range of the guitar. This is even better than I had hoped for. Thanks to all of you for making this recommendation. I can't wait to hear it with my RxES (I'll pick that guy up on Saturday!). Ted Weber has great ears. His speakers generally sound very musical.You will love those even more when they loosen up. The more they break in, the more responsive they get. That's a cool setup you got there.... J
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Post by (8^D) on Aug 7, 2006 19:14:52 GMT -7
Ditto J's comments! Ted's "the man"! I've got the same setup in my Sr. and it sounds amazing...especially after J 'pounded' on them for a while. Also, another +1 for the fine folks as Mass Street - great group of gear heads! Those guys are knowledgable and down-to-earth. Enjoy your amp! You'll be amazed w/it's tonal versatility! DW
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