|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 17, 2006 13:24:04 GMT -7
My Blue Dogs finally got here yesterday, so I hopped directly to it and installed them in my Mazerati along with a couple of Beam Blockers (if you haven't tried beam blockers, you should). I set the amp right back where I recorded it previously with the V30's and on top of my THD 2x12 cab with the Flexi-50 driving that. The point of the change was to make the Mazerati live more comfortably in the tone realms I'm working with on the Flexi. To that end, this change is going to work fine. The midrange hump from the V30's has disappeared and the rest seems quite good. Here's the thing though - I think if I was going to use the Mazerati by itself all the time, that I would like the V30's better. The bridge pickup on my Tele is especially affected by this - the spank I had with the V30's is somewhat less with the Blue Dogs. Fascinating. On the other end of the spectrum though, my neck pickup sounds rounder than before. Since I basically LIVE on the neck pickup in our blues band, that's going to work out really good - especially switching back and forth between the Mazerati and the Flexi-50. I get to gig the setup tonight, so I'll have a much better feeling about the outcome after hearing it on a stage - it's always different than in the studio, isn't it? For those who are anal about this stuff (like me) I did make a before and after sound clip, but I warn you - both of these are sloppy noodling, and both are large clips. The first is the clip I posted before, the second is the "after" clip. Both with my Grosh Tele, both with Volume on 2:30 o'clock, and tone at 11 o'clock. Both clips had a Rode NT1 positioned about five feet from the amp and at 90 degrees. YMMV. Clip 1 (before): www.gear.strayca.com/audio/MazeratiGrosh001.mp3 (4.6 Megabytes) Clip 2 (after): www.gear.strayca.com/audio/MazeratiGrosh002_bluedogs_.mp3 (7 Megabytes) If you download both, and isolate just the bridge pickup to compare, you can definitely hear the difference, but it doesn't sound as dramatic in the recording as it does in person. We shall see tonight...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2006 13:42:27 GMT -7
Benttop, wicked playing as usual man. You totally can hear a difference between the two speakers. I can see how can make an arguement for either one. Why not try and have a V30 and a Blue dog for the best of both worlds? I wonder what that might sound like.
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 17, 2006 14:31:07 GMT -7
Thanks aruntang. I'm glad you could hear the difference - I was wondering if anyone would. I hear it, but then I'm ten times more pickey than most folks. Depending on how it goes tonight, I may just try one of each - it would be a little weird because the V30's magnet is almost twice as big as the Blue Dog... Not sure about efficiency. Might be worth a listen though. Thanks for the suggestion.
|
|
|
Post by Bill on Feb 17, 2006 15:32:14 GMT -7
Killer playing & tone, benttop! Listened to both and I guess I'm just a Weber man...thought they sounded very "musical" to my ears, not quite as edgy as the V30 clip. I found myself really diggin' the entire recording of the bluedogs, especially the "in between" and bridge sections. And they're not even broken in yet There's always some trade off, in this case some spank the V30 provides. Worth it IMHO. Look forward to your post gig report...
|
|
|
Post by zdogma on Feb 17, 2006 15:57:30 GMT -7
Thanks for the nice clips.+1
Both are good, but I prefer the blue dogs too. I like the v30's in combination with other speakers, generally. I think you should try one of each.
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 18, 2006 11:28:59 GMT -7
Well the gig didn't provide the info I was hoping for. Whoever booked this joint should be held with his head in the toilet till he breathes some of the water... The "stage" was so bizarre we had no choice but to put the drum kit in front of the rest of us, and so I was standing next to the crash cymbals all night. I don't know how drummers do it! My right ear is ringing like crazy this morning. Not only that, but the stage was some kind of hard board planks and the room acoustics were all hard walls - lets just say that I can't really pass judgement till I play somewhere else, because EVERYTHING sounded awful in that joint. I hate it when that happens...
|
|
|
Post by JChance on Feb 18, 2006 15:54:36 GMT -7
The spank from your Tele will return when the Blues are broken in. Weber purposefully designs his speakers very TOUGH, and this means longer break-in time. They will typically sound nice out of the box, but a little stuffy. After a few gigs, you'll notice how lively and detailed they'll become....
JC
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 18, 2006 18:31:19 GMT -7
The spank from your Tele will return when the Blues are broken in. Weber purposefully designs his speakers very TOUGH, and this means longer break-in time. They will typically sound nice out of the box, but a little stuffy. After a few gigs, you'll notice how lively and detailed they'll become.... JC Looking forward to that - the Z got some use last night, but not enough for serious break-in. Playing the same hole tonight, so I've got a few tweaks in mind for the evening.
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 19, 2006 9:51:06 GMT -7
Holy COW! I said I had a few tweaks in mind - boy, one in particular really did the trick.
I've never used a compressor before - never really needed one with the Flexi, as it is already pretty compressed. But I kept reading about them here and it seems everyone's using them on their Z amps. I was thinking about this and realized that I have a dual function stomp box on my pedal board - a Rocktron Surf Tremelo, but the second function is a compressor. So I set it up before the gig last night - OH WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
I'm not real hot on that particular compressor, but it was already there, so it was a great test. Now I'm on a quest for "the" compressor.
The good news is once I got the amp responding the way I like, the Blue Dogs sounded pretty darn good. I think we're going to get along just fine here. I'm going to let them break in a bit and then do some sound clips with the compressor on - I just can't believe what a difference that made.
|
|
|
Post by prowler on Feb 19, 2006 10:10:41 GMT -7
When it comes to compressors there is only one for me.
Keeley !
|
|
|
Post by hdahs143 on Feb 19, 2006 10:37:10 GMT -7
The Blue Dog sounds warmer and sweeter to me! And Compressors: KEELEY
|
|
|
Post by Bill on Feb 19, 2006 11:41:38 GMT -7
I've had a love/hate with compressors forever. I've had Ross, Carl Martin, Visual Sounds, Barber, Keeley, rack comps,etc...sold them all.
Strangely enough I finally picked up a $50.00 Boss CS 3 on Ebay (mint) and this is the one for me. If I'm using a comp, then I DO want to hear a little squish and the Boss does it well. Basically for me what it boils down to is, country & honky tonk...comp on, rock & blues comp off.
Sorry benttop, now back to the Weber talk! ;D
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 20, 2006 10:04:18 GMT -7
Well I have a compressor on order. We shall see...
|
|
|
Post by billyguitar on Feb 20, 2006 11:44:49 GMT -7
I think a guitar compressor should be able to pump and breathe. I like to set mine just below that threshold. I tried an EBS compressor one time. Salesman said it was the best it had. I couldn't hear it work so no sale. I still like my little green Guyatone. I've had others but I like this one well enough that I'm not shopping for compressors anymore.
|
|
|
Post by propellr on Feb 20, 2006 13:37:45 GMT -7
I looked for a compressor last year about this time. Picked up a Boss CS and took it home for a trial. I tend to play on the cleaner side and was looking to minimize the volume changes from attack to decay. As I remember, I could only dial in one setting that made sense to me. I later returned it. I think part of the problem was the amp. Its effects loop had send and return dials and those, combined with the pedal's controls, were a little difficult to dial in without causing a hiss. I wonder how that unit would sound with my Z? What would a Keeley have to offer?
|
|
|
Post by billyguitar on Feb 20, 2006 13:57:05 GMT -7
I wouldn't put a compressor in the loop. I want it to react with the preamp and if I really want a smooth clean sounding overdrive at low volume, it sounds great into an overdrive pedal.
|
|
|
Post by Bill on Feb 20, 2006 14:03:59 GMT -7
I wouldn't put a compressor in the loop. I want it to react with the preamp and if I really want a smooth clean sounding overdrive at low volume, it sounds great into an overdrive pedal. I agree with billy...don't put the comp in the effects loop. Much better results when used in front.
|
|
|
Post by propellr on Feb 20, 2006 18:09:43 GMT -7
It hissed like a scared cat from the front, as well, as I recall, but thanks for the lesson. I'll put that in the back of my mind. I'm not going to ask y'all why no one at GC knew that tasty bit of advice.
|
|
|
Post by terryg on Feb 21, 2006 13:33:31 GMT -7
two-pronged reply:
- I'm throwing my compressor hat into the ring with a vote for analogman's bicomp. Two totally distinctive classic compression circuits, both usable and winners for my needs. It's the first pedal my guitar hits. - if a ceramic blue dog is good for a mazerati, do you think I could expect similar goodness with a ghia? I'm opening up to trying some speakers....
|
|
|
Post by JChance on Feb 21, 2006 14:15:13 GMT -7
two-pronged reply: - I'm throwing my compressor hat into the ring with a vote for analogman's bicomp. Two totally distinctive classic compression circuits, both usable and winners for my needs. It's the first pedal my guitar hits. - if a ceramic blue dog is good for a mazerati, do you think I could expect similar goodness with a ghia? I'm opening up to trying some speakers.... If you are looking for something along the lines of a Celestion Blue or Greenback, then the Weber Blue Dog is great. Just depends what you are looking for. Other on here, like Bluzsteel, seem to really enjoy a more American-type speaker with that amp, like an Eminence Swamp Thing. The Weber is woody/reedy like the Celestion, while something like a Weber 12F150 or Eminence Patriot will give you the warm, more Jensen-style tone with some added chunk. JC
|
|
|
Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Feb 23, 2006 7:16:23 GMT -7
benttop - great playing on those clips!
I greatly prefered the Blue Dogs... They were thicker, sweeter, and warmer sounding. I thought the V30's sounded too raspy and harsh in comparison, but I also think the V30 is a speaker that sounds better live in (especially in a band mix) than it does recorded.
If you like those Blue Dogs now, just wait until they break in. I've got a 15w alnico blue dog in one of my 2x12 cabs, and I was VERY indifferent about that speaker when I first got it brand new.... Now that I've pounded it for many hours, it is the sweetest sounding speaker I've ever heard... it imparts a very special harmonic goo on any amp I put through it...
I really like the way those ceramic Blue Dogs sound... supposed to be Weber's take on a greenback, and I can definitely hear that tone in there, but I think they sound like a greenback crossed with a blue. Those are some fine sounding speakers!
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 23, 2006 7:57:30 GMT -7
Thanks Peach. I do believe I'm going to get along famously with these speakers, but I'm dying to hear them fully broken in! Everyone who has these says "just you wait" .... Guess I'd better get my butt down in the studio and pound on it for a couple hours.
|
|
|
Post by Curt on Feb 23, 2006 10:26:36 GMT -7
OK, talked me into a Blue Dawg for my ghia, now here's a poll; What wattage would each of you go for with a Ghia? 15? 25? 50?
I need to tame the ghia for transistor level gigs, might try Myles suggestion of a Jensen P-12-R with it's 97 Db rating?!?!?!?
Chime in here brothers.....
|
|
|
Post by Bill on Feb 23, 2006 10:41:22 GMT -7
OK, talked me into a Blue Dawg for my ghia, now here's a poll; What wattage would each of you go for with a Ghia? 15? 25? 50? I need to tame the ghia for transistor level gigs, might try Myles suggestion of a Jensen P-12-R with it's 97 Db rating?!?!?!? Chime in here brothers..... I'd go with the 30w light doping, Curt. The 15w may have you "holding back" with the Ghia cranked. You could also use your Z28 with the 30w!
|
|
|
Post by kruzty on Feb 23, 2006 10:44:00 GMT -7
Well, what's the Ghia rated - around 18W? I think you at least need the 25W Blue Dog, then. You usually figure double the rating for peaks. It depends on how hard you push it - if you dime it all the time, you might consider the 50W.
|
|
|
Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Feb 23, 2006 10:44:59 GMT -7
Curt - exactly what madison said... 30, light dope.
if you were putting them in a 2x12 it might be cool to do the 15w light dopes, but even though Weber's 15 watts is a conservative rating, I think the Ghia's rating is pretty conservative too.
|
|
|
Post by Curt on Feb 23, 2006 11:27:08 GMT -7
Thanks BoyZ ;^)
Bill, I stuffed my Z/28 head into a combo cab but will definately try it thru the DAWG when I get it, the V-30 works well when cranked but I usually can't do that, I am real jealous of you guy's that get to crank your amps...I jus can't get away with it...some of it might be the V-30 bein' loud.
Chad I posted a pic for ya on the Hobbies thread in the Lounge.
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 26, 2006 17:28:23 GMT -7
|
|