|
Post by twangstang on Jul 12, 2012 7:56:30 GMT -7
I have been having issues lately with my Jaz 20/40 not being loud enough for the gigs I've been playing. I need clean headroom since I've been doing a lot of country gigs. I put new JJ 6V6's and replaced V1, V2 and the P.I with new tubes. I run the mids around 10-11:00, treble around 9:00 and bass at 9:00. I'm running the master at full and the preamp at 9-9:30. Anything past this and it starts to grind.
Do I need to look for a louder Z? It doesn't seem as loud as my old Maz 38. That amp was LOUD.
|
|
|
Post by jesslm02 on Jul 12, 2012 8:43:41 GMT -7
Are you on 20 or 40 watt setting? Not trying to belittle anyone but if you want max headroom make sure you have the switch on 40 watts.
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 12, 2012 8:46:19 GMT -7
It's on the 40 watt setting.
|
|
|
Post by jesslm02 on Jul 12, 2012 9:09:26 GMT -7
What type of tubes are you using in V1, V2? You might be able to put something with lower gain in the phase inverter slot and get more headroom that way. I'm not where I can try mine out right now, I don't believe mine breaks up at all with the master full and volume around 9 or 9:30, even on the 20 watt setting. Have you tried backing off the master to maybe 10:00 and upping the preamp volume?
It almost seams like you could be overdriving the preamp section to some degree. Like from high output pickups or a pedal above unity gain.
|
|
|
Post by zpilot on Jul 12, 2012 9:36:06 GMT -7
I have a JAZ that I use for all the shows I do. I used to have a MAZ Sr. too. You are right, the MAZ seemed to be a louder amp but it was a different kind of sound. It would do the new country stuff real well but when I played old stuff and faux steel licks it just didn't sound right. Know what I mean? I haven't had a problem with volume with the JAZ but we mic it at the show and all I have to do is be able to monitor myself. We purposely try to keep our volume down and I don't have to be any louder than the drum kit. My JAZ is a 2x10 combo and it definitely is louder and has more punch than a 1x12. You might try a different speaker configuration. Like a 2x10 or even a 4x10. Make sure you use the right transformer tap. Stay with the JJ 6V6's. I don't believe any other 6V6 will run reliably in that amp. That has been my experience anyway. Personally I love my JAZ. Best amp I've ever owned and I've had over 30. Wish I could afford to buy another one.
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 12, 2012 12:34:23 GMT -7
Mine is a 2x10 combo. I didn't care for the 12at7 in the P.I. I found that I had to run the volume higher so it didn't really give me any cleaner headroom, just a different tone. I have a lower gain Tung-Sol in V1, JJ in V2, NOS Jan12at7 in V3 and a LPS in the P.I.
My Tele has Budz Danocaster pickups that are normal output. I can get more cut and projection by running the mids above 1:00 but it gets too midrangy for me. I like the Mids around 10:00.
If I backed the master to 10:00 I wouldn't have enough volume. I tried running the master at noon but it broke up a little too much. Keep in mind that I'm using a Tele on the bridge pickup and going for more of a Brent Mason tone.
|
|
|
Post by zpilot on Jul 12, 2012 13:06:25 GMT -7
I use the 12AT7 as the PI when I need to have that jazzy clean tone and am mainly on the neck pick-up. Otherwise I use the stock 12AX7LPS. When the amp is stock my settings are: Vol - 10:30 to 1:00 Treb - 10:30 Mid - 3:00 Bass - 10:30 Mast - Full (I sometimes dial this back a little but not much) I play Strats and Teles mostly.
I used to have a MAZ Sr but never could turn it up enough to let it work right so I traded it for a Jr.
|
|
|
Post by jesslm02 on Jul 12, 2012 13:44:03 GMT -7
Mine is a 2x10 combo. I didn't care for the 12at7 in the P.I. I found that I had to run the volume higher so it didn't really give me any cleaner headroom, just a different tone. I have a lower gain Tung-Sol in V1, JJ in V2, NOS Jan12at7 in V3 and a LPS in the P.I. My Tele has Budz Danocaster pickups that are normal output. I can get more cut and projection by running the mids above 1:00 but it gets too midrangy for me. I like the Mids around 10:00. If I backed the master to 10:00 I wouldn't have enough volume. I tried running the master at noon but it broke up a little too much. Keep in mind that I'm using a Tele on the bridge pickup and going for more of a Brent Mason tone. Ok, next question. How old are the power tubes? Also, I'm assuming you have the Z custom 10" speakers? I love them as a pair, but they are somewhat inefficient IIRC. I really don't know what other 10" speakers to suggest other than the eminence red fangs. They are rated higher than the Z 10"ers and would be louder. It would be a pretty noticeable difference.
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 12, 2012 16:08:45 GMT -7
I use the 12AT7 as the PI when I need to have that jazzy clean tone and am mainly on the neck pick-up. Otherwise I use the stock 12AX7LPS. When the amp is stock my settings are: Vol - 10:30 to 1:00 Treb - 10:30 Mid - 3:00 Bass - 10:30 Mast - Full (I sometimes dial this back a little but not much) I play Strats and Teles mostly. I used to have a MAZ Sr but never could turn it up enough to let it work right so I traded it for a Jr. I never tried running the mids that high. I'll try it this Fri and Sat at the gig. At home it sounds like it has a lot more presence in the mids which may make it jump more in the mix. Maybe I was running the mids too low. I'll report back after this weekend. Thanks for the help guys.
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Jul 15, 2012 5:50:33 GMT -7
Lately I've been running the JAZ with V way up and using the guitar volume to move from clean to dirtier sounds. Where V ends up depends on the guitar: I might dime V with a Tele with low output pickups, for example.
Also, I'm pretty sure the front end on the amp is like the MAZ series. All the tone controls act as attenuators within specific frequency bands. Max front-end gain with all the knobs turned up.
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 19, 2012 18:30:40 GMT -7
I just compared my Jaz with my AC30. The Jaz used to have more clean headroom than the AC30 but now it has less. Something weird is going on with the amp. The tone is still good but it has less power. I'm in the 40 watt mode and have replaced the power tubes, V1, V2, V3 and the P.I all with the factory spec tubes. Any suggestion on what it could be? Mine's a 2x10 combo.
|
|
|
Post by nicholas on Jul 20, 2012 11:45:59 GMT -7
Looking at a few comments you made....
Used to be louder.
Used to have more headroom.
And a side bt side comparison with a familiar amp....
I would say it's your powertubes. If you know for a fact that it isn't as loud as it used to be. And the volume/headroom has declined. Thats a symptom of power tubes worn out or defective. Even new or newer power tubes can do this. Might want to ask in the "ask the experts" section as well. I'm just guessing here. But if something declined, chances are its a tube. Usually preamp tubes wont affect volume when they decline. They will make wierd noises and stuff. Static, hissing, feedback, ringing and the like. Powertubes generally lower volume or just self destruct.
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 20, 2012 12:03:09 GMT -7
Looking at a few comments you made.... Used to be louder. Used to have more headroom. And a side bt side comparison with a familiar amp.... I would say it's your powertubes. If you know for a fact that it isn't as loud as it used to be. And the volume/headroom has declined. Thats a symptom of power tubes worn out or defective. Even new or newer power tubes can do this. Might want to ask in the "ask the experts" section as well. I'm just guessing here. But if something declined, chances are its a tube. Usually preamp tubes wont affect volume when they decline. They will make wierd noises and stuff. Static, hissing, feedback, ringing and the like. Powertubes generally lower volume or just self destruct. It's not the power tubes. I tried the original, the 2nd pair I bought and the most recent power tubes. All are JJ 6V6's and the volume is the same with all of them.
|
|
|
Post by jesslm02 on Jul 20, 2012 12:48:14 GMT -7
I hate to say it, but it is possible that a component in the amp circuit could be faulty. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Caps, resistors, etc., these things can fail at any moment without warning or fade away slowly. I think you should send it to the Doc and let his techs do what they do best. It would sound better than new once you got it back!
Other than volume and lack of headroom, have you noticed a change in the overall tone?
|
|
|
Post by nicholas on Jul 20, 2012 13:35:17 GMT -7
Wierd. Best of luck sorting it out. Give Zamps a call. They'll help ya. I use humbuckers and am not after a country clean more a dirty blues so I set mine different. But I tried mine out with the master maxed and a 335 it starts to get wooly at around 10:00 on the volume. Once I turn the volume up past 11:00 I don't think I could call it clean. Dropping the guitar volume would clean it right up though. I have a 1-12 combo. It was pretty darn loud like that and my ears hurt now But it sounded cool..... Best of luck. Call the factory. A human will answer and sort it out
|
|
|
Post by zpilot on Jul 20, 2012 21:29:56 GMT -7
The reliability and tolerance range of modern components is way better than it used to be years ago but they still occasionally fail. Keep us posted on what you find out.
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 21, 2012 11:55:53 GMT -7
I cleaned the jacks and re-checked the tubes. My AC30tbx still has more headroom. I would say it has a good bit more than the Jaz.
I had a power tube start to hum really loud about a month ago. I replaced the power tubes because it sounded like it was about to blow. I wonder if it may have weakened a cap or resistor. It sounds like it's running on three tubes. The tone is still great other than the lower volume.
|
|
|
Post by nicholas on Jul 22, 2012 6:13:16 GMT -7
When you have your amps power on look in back at your tubes. While looking at the tubes flip the standby to play. All 4 tubes should "flicker" and you should see them turn blue-ish in color. They wont all look exactley the same. But it might help you sort it out.
Power tubes can do wierd things when they fail. It is common for them to ruin other compoments when they fail. If you are comfortable removing the chassis from the amp take a look see. A damaged resistor is pretty easy to visually spot. Keep in mind there is substantial power stored in the amp even when it's unplugged.
You mentioned you cleaned the jacks. Did you clean the effects loop jacks as well? Those have been known to cause promlems also. You could try plugging a know good patch cord across the effects loop to rule out dirty jacks. The jack has a mechanical contact that is closed when nothing is plugged into the loop. The signal is run through the jacks internally. When you insert a cable the mechanical switch opens and the signal is directed through the cable you plugged in. Its in this little area on the switch where the mechanical switch contacts get dirty.
Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by jesslm02 on Jul 22, 2012 7:08:09 GMT -7
^^^ Definitely try the effects loop tips, I completely forgot about it.
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 22, 2012 7:18:39 GMT -7
My Jaz doesn't have an effects loop. I tried different tubes so that not the issue. I'm going to open it up and try checking the screen resistors. The amp started making a weird hum about a month ago. I turned it off and replaced the power tubes. The hum stopped but I'm wondering if a failed tube could have taken out one of the screen resistors. It almost sounds like it's running on 3 tubes.
Also I wonder if it could have been a failed cap that was causing the temporary hum. I'll call Z tomorrow and see if they have any suggestion on what it could be.
Thanks for the help everyone.
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Jul 22, 2012 10:36:57 GMT -7
^^^
Interesting. I thought the effects loop was standard on the JAZ.
|
|
|
Post by jesslm02 on Jul 22, 2012 12:48:15 GMT -7
^^^ Interesting. I thought the effects loop was standard on the JAZ. Same here, but you never I guess.
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 22, 2012 12:55:08 GMT -7
Mine doesn't have an effects loops which is fine with me since I never use them. I checked the screen resistors and they all read 468ohms so they seem to be fine. Everything in the amp looks good and I seen no signs of a charred resistor.
It sounds like it's a touch louder than a Maz18. Is this normal for the Jaz? Maybe it's just not that loud. It sounds great but I seem to be running out of headroom on some of my gigs where my AC30 doesn't seem to have this issue.
I've been running the amp with the mids around 9:30, Bass 8:30, treble 9:00, master on full, volume around 10:30-11:00. I love the tone with these settings. It sounds like a great blackface with some Z vibe thrown in.
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Jul 22, 2012 13:16:47 GMT -7
With the tone knobs all set pretty low you've got the gain throttled back quite a bit. Just as an experiment, try maxing all the tone knobs and see if you can find some of the missing gain. (Keep your ears safe, though, please
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 22, 2012 13:32:27 GMT -7
I like the treble around 9:00. With the mids lower it sounds more Fendery. If I run it lower like that does it come with a price of losing overall volume?
I'll try it with the tone controls on full to see if I get more volume. I get more gain with the mid set higher. I'm going for clean tones ala Marty Stuart, Vince Gill ect.
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 22, 2012 14:03:59 GMT -7
Well I tried your suggestions and it's a lot louder for sure. It seems like the mid control adds a lot of volume and presence. With it lower the amp doesn't sound near as loud. I like an airy tone that's not too middy. I'll try using the mid a little higher while keeping the treble lower and see if that does the trick.
I don't know why I didn't realize that the tone controls added gain and volume.
Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Jul 22, 2012 15:18:06 GMT -7
^^^ The tone controls on the JAZ operate as attenuators on different frequency bands. When run wide open there's no (or minimal) attenuation. To get the clean BF tone you're after with more volume may involve getting all the controls, esp. the mid, up higher and then adjusting the balance. Sounds like you're on the right path
|
|
|
Post by twangstang on Jul 22, 2012 15:36:02 GMT -7
With the mid and treble up it gets a little too bright. I'll play around more with the settings.
|
|
|
Post by zpilot on Jul 22, 2012 18:42:51 GMT -7
Mine doesn't have an effects loop either. The build date is 4/10. I have one on my MAZ but I bypass it with a cable. I never use it and it's just one more connection to worry about corroding. Some day I will probably solder a jumper.
I run my treble at 10:30, mid at 1:30, bass at 10:30. I A/B'd my JAZ against my BF Vibrolux Reverb (35 watts) and they are about the same volume with the JAZ having a little more upper mids. The bottom end is a little more honest with the JAZ where it tends to crap out with the Fender. My MAZ has always sounded louder than its 18 watts would make you expect.
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Jul 22, 2012 18:46:09 GMT -7
With the mid and treble up it gets a little too bright. I'll play around more with the settings. Try bringing the bass up too if you haven't already. The knobs are very interactive. I usually have bass dialed pretty low, but none of the other knobs are above noon. When I did play around with higher settings I found I could move bass up more without the amp sounding too bottom heavy.
|
|