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Post by johnnyl on Dec 18, 2006 14:27:12 GMT -7
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Post by John on Dec 18, 2006 14:43:21 GMT -7
Ouch, a little expensive.
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Post by dock66 on Dec 18, 2006 14:54:06 GMT -7
Yes,they are expensive.I was looking into getting one,but was disappointed by the price.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 18, 2006 20:10:46 GMT -7
Too much money to even bother looking at. (at least I keep telling myself that!)
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Post by nitehawk55 on Dec 19, 2006 4:09:59 GMT -7
Some of these companies are pricing themselves beyond the reach of the average guitarist . I'm sure they have a great product but they have to rethink the marketing end of it or else they will not make it in a competative market .
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 19, 2006 7:48:20 GMT -7
Collings sells all he can make and then some. Look over on The Gear Page and you'll lots of guys spending big money. The Collings are very cool. The white knobs and other trim are actually layered ivoroid and look stunning!
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Post by dock66 on Dec 19, 2006 8:11:07 GMT -7
It's just a little too much.
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Post by mward on Dec 19, 2006 9:58:54 GMT -7
Ridiculous pricing - their acoustics are amazing and worth the money, but a solidbody electric? No way. It doesn't take near the level (IMHO) to build one of these to command the kind of price they do. That goes for ANY solidbody guitars these days - again, in my humble opinion. www.edromanguitars.com/rant/overpriced.htm
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 19, 2006 12:14:52 GMT -7
Put it in perspective though. If Fender can sell some Strats for over $5K and Gibson can sell some Les Pauls for those prices, I think it could easily be argued that a Collings Electric is worth more than that, even though they don't cost more. I'm just being the devil's advocate here, I don't care myself. But if I really thought i wanted that kind of guitar, that's what it would cost. Roman says that a guitar built using parts made on a CNC machine are overpriced I have an argument there. The builders have to amortise that $85,000 cost of the machine somewhere. Personally a machine like a CNC can be an improvement over hand made if the builder expects any significant quantities. Because then the builder would need multiple workers and they wouldn't all produce guitars the same way, causing perhaps unwanted variation.
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Post by Hohn on Dec 27, 2006 0:42:51 GMT -7
Makes the following Hamer look like an absolutel steal in the $3k range:
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Post by mudskipper on Dec 27, 2006 7:57:30 GMT -7
i've gotton some quotes from FatSound guitars and the Collings' Les Paul copies are in the 4k's (and their 335s in the 5k's). don't people pay between 3k and 5k+ for Gibson CS RI Les Pauls? i've also seen people pay a good chunk of $ for PRS, Fender CS, Grosh's LP, etc., etc.... it seems Collings has priced them in the right ballpark to me.
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Post by zdogma on Dec 27, 2006 8:22:38 GMT -7
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Post by nitehawk55 on Dec 27, 2006 9:09:49 GMT -7
i've gotton some quotes from FatSound guitars and the Collings' Les Paul copies are in the 4k's (and their 335s in the 5k's). don't people pay between 3k and 5k+ for Gibson CS RI Les Pauls? i've also seen people pay a good chunk of $ for PRS, Fender CS, Grosh's LP, etc., etc.... it seems Collings has priced them in the right ballpark to me. Same price range as a Gibson but you will have a huge devaluation if you go to resell because they are not a Gibson . That's something you have to relise when you purchase these high priced boutique guitars , you will never get a good return on them . I've had some fantastic guitars from smaller makers but when you try and sell or deal them no one will pay a decent price for them and you lose big time . If you buy one make bloody sure it's a keeper .
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Post by JebusCrebus on Dec 27, 2006 11:33:31 GMT -7
i've gotton some quotes from FatSound guitars and the Collings' Les Paul copies are in the 4k's (and their 335s in the 5k's). don't people pay between 3k and 5k+ for Gibson CS RI Les Pauls? i've also seen people pay a good chunk of $ for PRS, Fender CS, Grosh's LP, etc., etc.... it seems Collings has priced them in the right ballpark to me. Same price range as a Gibson but you will have a huge devaluation if you go to resell because they are not a Gibson . That's something you have to relise when you purchase these high priced boutique guitars , you will never get a good return on them . I've had some fantastic guitars from smaller makers but when you try and sell or deal them no one will pay a decent price for them and you lose big time . If you buy one make bloody sure it's a keeper . Amen! There are tons of really cool top quality stuff out there, but the majority of the buying public in the used marketplace is looking for something they recognize. They're un-willing to pay any decent amount of cash for stuff they don't, regardless of actual quality. [glow=limegreen,2,300]-J-[/glow]
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 27, 2006 12:53:54 GMT -7
That's true but Collings already has a strong name in acoustics so that may help resale.
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Post by nitehawk55 on Dec 27, 2006 13:30:34 GMT -7
That's true but Collings already has a strong name in acoustics so that may help resale. Don't count on it with the electrics , they are unknown regardless of the name and competing in a different market .
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Post by mudskipper on Dec 27, 2006 14:41:13 GMT -7
Same price range as a Gibson but you will have a huge devaluation if you go to resell because they are not a Gibson . That's something you have to relise when you purchase these high priced boutique guitars , you will never get a good return on them . I've had some fantastic guitars from smaller makers but when you try and sell or deal them no one will pay a decent price for them and you lose big time . If you buy one make bloody sure it's a keeper . agreed on the resale value, but you also realize we are talking about 2 different things, right? one cannot justify the retail prices based on the resale value of products in the used market. so regardless of how they do in the used market, Collings has priced them to compete with other manufacturers in the same price range.
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Post by osostrings on Dec 27, 2006 15:59:14 GMT -7
As far as the pricing question goes, I'm lucky enough to live 15 minutes from their shop and I've visited a couple times - the amount of hand-care and attention to detail there is absolutely stunning. Nearly every piece on those guitars is given some sort of craftsman/artisanal treatment and it shows when you pick one up. I've tried all three models and they are not surprisingly (after seeing them work) the three best guitars I've ever played. I'm personally jonesing for a 290 - mainly because I'm a P90 man.
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Post by skydog958 on Dec 27, 2006 16:11:54 GMT -7
What is the scale on the 290? I take it they're all Gibson scale.
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Post by nitehawk55 on Dec 27, 2006 17:48:21 GMT -7
Well I've learned one thing over the years and that is if you buy a new guitar don't be surprised when you get offered a fraction of it's original cost if and when you do decide to part with it . This is more so with brands that are not well known or at the top of the demand/popularity list so to speak . Also , a high priced guitar will not necessarily be any better sounding or playing then lesser priced guitars , it's all a matter of choice and some careful research and comparing of what the market has to offer will reveal some good buys both new and used out there . I would put a $500 Godin LG P90 up against many P90 equipped guitars out there worth many times more . It may not be as fancy or well known and have the "wow" effect on other guitarists but it's a great value for the money and something you can play without pampering . I think a lot of us tend to fall in love with the look of a guitar first just like cars or other goods on the market and lets face it , that fear of the first scratch on an expensive guitar turns them into closet classics instead of players so to me that guitar has never really been enjoyed and is a wasted investment . I have got away from purchasing new guitars and find lots of great deals on slightly used which often sell for a fraction of their original price . Would I buy a Collins electric ? , maybe , but it won't be a new one that's for sure .
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Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Dec 27, 2006 18:16:46 GMT -7
Well said Nitehawk..........I have CS Gibsons worth well over 4k, and I have several pawnshop prizes that I paid under $200 for. Granted, almost every time I buy a "cheap" guitar, I start looking for replacement pups, bridges, pickguards, tuners, etc...but by the time I'm done, I've still got way less than $500 in 'em, and they ALWAYS play and sound kill....Of course, they played pretty good in the shop to start with.. But, the point being...I don't mind takein' 'em anywhere and bangin' around on 'em....Shoot, thru a Z amp, just about anything will sound good. I can't see shelling out that kind of money for something that I know I'm not gonna get a good return on.. Unless..(here's the rub), that instrument (or one like it) actually speaks to me..I am currently having a one-off black guard Tele built by a little shop in Tn that almost nobody has ever heard of. The Guitar Mill. (look 'em up) When all is said and done, it's gonna cost me more than a Fender AM/deluxe Tele...But man, I picked out the slab of wood, the finish, color, well.....you get the idea. I also played some of his finished guitars and, WOW....Stuff is incredible. I know I can never expect to get back what I've got in it but, can I put a price on all the hours of enjoyment I'm gonna get out of playing that guitar?? Anyway, I'll be dead before I'm done with it... ;D
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Post by nitehawk55 on Dec 27, 2006 18:32:59 GMT -7
Trockcity , That guitar will be a good investment to you because you will be playing it , not pulling it from under your bed once a week and just looking at it . There are some small independent luthiers out there that do make a reasonably ( realistically ) priced product unlike some companies trying to price instruments because of thier name . Pawnshops do come up with some real good buys and if it takes a few repairs or mods to make it suit you it's still a good buy . Some good deals to be had too in music stores and private sales , yes even on evil-bay if you know what you are looking for . Sorry if I'm sounding off here guys but I feel some guitars and a lot of other goods on the market are way over priced .
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Post by seaking on Dec 27, 2006 18:38:48 GMT -7
Well I've learned one thing over the years and that is if you buy a new guitar don't be surprised when you get offered a fraction of it's original cost if and when you do decide to part with it . This is more so with brands that are not well known or at the top of the demand/popularity list so to speak . Also , a high priced guitar will not necessarily be any better sounding or playing then lesser priced guitars , it's all a matter of choice and some careful research and comparing of what the market has to offer will reveal some good buys both new and used out there . I would put a $500 Godin LG P90 up against many P90 equipped guitars out there worth many times more . It may not be as fancy or well known and have the "wow" effect on other guitarists but it's a great value for the money and something you can play without pampering . I agree with your comments. I was listening to some very seasoned and respected local players using quality name brand guitars one afternoon. Young fella sat in for a few numbers and played through the the gee-tar players rig (Ritchie Oakley). He used his own modest Godin P90 axe and stole the show for best tone as far as i was concerned. But when Ritchie got back up with his beautiful custom red tele, it was definitely more fun to look at. Seems like most people, I'm attracted to traditional manufactures and models too (While doing some Boxing day shopping today i almost buckled at the knees having to put a 52 RI tele back on the rack...had my name written all over it) That guitar cost at least five times what i paid form my used 94 samick tele (vintage tint flamed maple top) which includes a set of hand wound pickups from tonefordays. Not the coolest guit, but i often get positive comments regarding the guitars looks and tone ( Maz jr helps the tone immensely). Which brings up the point, the quest for great tone begins with a great amp. A great amp can make a ordinary guitar sound fantastic, but a great guitar cannot make a poor amp sound good. While i believe this, i still can't take my eyes off a great guitar...If i remember correctly, Les Paul said, when developing the solid body electric, that he had to make it look Like a traditional guitar, because people listen with their eyes. Bill
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Post by zdogma on Dec 27, 2006 18:43:20 GMT -7
I would put a $500 Godin LG P90 up against many P90 equipped guitars out there worth many times more . It may not be as fancy or well known and have the "wow" effect on other guitarists but it's a great value for the money and something you can play without pampering . That's a nice guitar. Great value and one of my favorite necks at any price.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 28, 2006 10:25:43 GMT -7
There are many things that go into a boutique guitar's value. They are all very important to that guitar's sound and looks. Handpicked wood for the body and neck, how the frets are installed and finished, hardware that is selected with tone in mind and how it matches with the designer's selection of pickups, quality of the electronic parts like caps, potentiometers and switches. These are real and significant differences that make a guitar what it is. There are lucky coincidences in production guitars but it would just be good luck to make a particularly wonderful Squire Strat! At resale time there probably will be a hit in value but that's just part of the deal and it's understood going in. Very few, if any, guitars can be bought new and sold without without a certain percentage of loss in value. If you wanted to sell a guitar that cost you $500 say, what would it be worth, $350 or $400? That would be a loss of 25 to 30%. If you bought a Collings for $5,000 and all you could get later was $3,500 or $4,000, that would be the same %. More real dollars yes but the same percentage. It's the same with boutique amps. For those of us that bought our Zs new, we can't sell them for what we've got in them. If it was only dollars and cents we'd all be playing Peaveys and Crates.
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Post by nitehawk55 on Dec 28, 2006 11:13:29 GMT -7
Of course you are going to lose on any new thing you purchase with the odd exception it's a rare collectible/limited edition and there is a demand for it . Boutique guitars are usually made of hand selected woods and are usually of top quality , I know I own a few . My problem is with some of these companies that seem to feel it's OK to put a huge price tag on their product to the point it's a bit absurd . You are going to lose more than 40-50% on a lot of those guitars unless there is a demand for them . I know that all to well too because I've had some huge losses on guitars in the past that I purchased with my heart instead of using my head and I've learned the hard way what to walk away from as nice as it looks or plays unless I know it's going to be my main player . If you want to pay for a piece of art that will be played sparingly ( if at all ) that's your choice and depends on your financial situation too but it's a safe bet if you do buy used VS new you won't come away from it too bad when you do sell provided it's not a guitar that is really wierd and you have to find someone who wants it ;D. I could almost guarantee if you purchase a new $4000 Collins electric you will be lucky to net $2000 for it if you decide to sell 6 months down the road . The Collins acoustic is a different story and your loss will be less due to demand for them . Edited to note that I'm not just picking on Collins electrics here just using as an example of what I feel is one of the overpriced makers out there .
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Post by mudskipper on Dec 28, 2006 13:05:13 GMT -7
the bottom line for me is that i don't buy guitars that makes me think about resale. and most of the modern day boutique guitars make me think about that.
i also don't wait months/years for someone to make a guitar for me since it's like being told "i know you are ready now but wait for XX months/years to get inspired and do some real work." i could be doing a whole lot during that time. it makes no sense whatsoever.
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Post by skydog958 on Dec 28, 2006 14:23:08 GMT -7
Most of the guitars I own I bought in the $1000-$1500 range, save for one vintage piece. Does fine by me!
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 28, 2006 16:06:22 GMT -7
I agree with everyone. I am usually just voicing an unspoken point of view. Playing the devil's advocate, if you will.
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Post by The Rev on Dec 29, 2006 16:02:55 GMT -7
I stopped by Mass Street Music in Lawrence KS the other day and they had a couple that had Jason Lollar pickups in them. I must say that the guitar was very impressive, of course outstanding craftsmanship and the electronics were really remarkable. I came home and starting looking at Lollar's pickups right away. The Rev. Jimmie Bratcher www.jimmiebratcher.com www.myspace.com/jimmiebratcher
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