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Reverb?
May 11, 2006 14:33:12 GMT -7
Post by hiftbso on May 11, 2006 14:33:12 GMT -7
For all those of you that have a Z without reverb, what do you guys use? I looked at all the pedalboard photos and only saw like 2 people that have reverb pedals on there board. I use a Holy Grail and while I like it more than the Boss pedals it doesn't blow me away. But I'm spoiled and used to studio reverbs that cost more than most amps. Is the Holy grail as good as I'm going to get without dropping a couple of grand on a Lexicon or Sony?
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Reverb?
May 11, 2006 14:43:16 GMT -7
Post by billyguitar on May 11, 2006 14:43:16 GMT -7
People are using the Holy Grail and the Verbzilla because they want a Spring reverb sound. For me the plate style reverbs are hard to hear when the band is playing.
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Reverb?
May 11, 2006 15:22:16 GMT -7
Post by benttop (Steve) on May 11, 2006 15:22:16 GMT -7
I'm fixing to use my Yamaha SPX-2000 with my Stingray - the loop on mine SO works right - thank GOD! I can do all my time domain stuff after the preamp where it belongs, and use a MIDI pedal to control it! THAT will reduce the number of boxes on my pedal board, no doubt! I can drop the Tremolo, the Chorus, the Delay - shoot, I'll have enough room I can put my Wah back on there! COOL! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Reverb?
May 11, 2006 16:27:06 GMT -7
Post by garyh on May 11, 2006 16:27:06 GMT -7
I use a Marshall Reflector. Was going to get a Holy Grail but liked this. It has a decent spring but a lot more and doesn't need a separate power supply. I daisy chain it and it does the job fine.
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Reverb?
May 11, 2006 16:29:44 GMT -7
Post by chadley on May 11, 2006 16:29:44 GMT -7
I use an outboard Fender style recerb made by a local amp builder named "Uncle Spot". It really like it with my Z-28 because of its Fender leanings.
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Reverb?
May 11, 2006 19:27:02 GMT -7
Post by LeftyLang on May 11, 2006 19:27:02 GMT -7
I use the Holy Grail & it does the trick....but I have heard the Holier Grail is better ?
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Reverb?
May 11, 2006 21:47:49 GMT -7
Post by BW on May 11, 2006 21:47:49 GMT -7
Ron Veil, aka Uncle Spot...quality guy, quality stuff. I've visited Ron at his shop a couple times. There I go again w/ the effects endorsements again, Jayson...
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Reverb?
May 11, 2006 23:28:02 GMT -7
Post by match on May 11, 2006 23:28:02 GMT -7
I also have the Holy Grail, and I'm less than thrilled with the non-spring sounds. We have great Lexicon, TC, and Sony verbs in our studio as well, and the Holy Grail never makes it to tape. Live it's passable. Why doesn't anyone make a studio quality reverb pedal? I also have a Yamaha Magicstomp, which sounds great. I'm told it's a SPX90 in a pedal. But no true bypass and the interface is a little clumsy. I also have read reviews of it breaking move often than not, I'm on my second one myself. I'd be VERY interested in a report on the Verbzilla. I recently played through the Line 6 Tonecore compressor pedal, and although I didn't love it, the thing was built like a tank, same housing as the Verbzilla. Any feedback would be appreciated. -Matt
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Reverb?
May 11, 2006 23:29:52 GMT -7
Post by real oldster on May 11, 2006 23:29:52 GMT -7
Studio quality reverb is more to my taste. You won't get a Knopfler type sound any other way IMO. I add it at the mixer. Clean, clean, clean. ;D
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 0:32:08 GMT -7
Post by taswegian on May 12, 2006 0:32:08 GMT -7
I once had to play an accoustic song at a wedding in a old 200 odd year old church. The reverb was AMAZING...I remember thinking if they could bottle that and stick in a pedal I might consider it! Stuff the wedding, I just wanted to keep playing! I play alot of empty venues so I get my reverb au natural! ;D
I agree with oldster, add it at the desk, even then it has to be a really good one.
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 5:23:13 GMT -7
Post by BW on May 12, 2006 5:23:13 GMT -7
"I play alot of empty venues so I get my reverb au natural!"
(Well, I guess if the venue is empty, it don't matter if he's runnin' around nekkid in there.)
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 6:25:50 GMT -7
Post by real oldster on May 12, 2006 6:25:50 GMT -7
Naked Reverb. I'd buy it! ;D
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 7:06:46 GMT -7
Post by guitarman1 on May 12, 2006 7:06:46 GMT -7
Although the verbs are better in high end digital rack gear than the Holy Grail, I have found that the Grail is less of a tone sucker than any Lexicon unit I've tried. When I was using more outboard FX in my studio (I now use software convolution reverbs mostly) I tried 3 different Lexicon units and a couple Alesis units in the FX loop of a Maz & Bogner Shiva. These things really altered the tone in a BAD way. I also tried patching guitar > FX > amp, with similar results. When doing this with the holy grail, the tone change wasn't as dramatic.
The reason these FX units sound so good in a mixer is that generally, you have the dry signal all by itself, but also sent out to the FX, returned with some FX and mixed back with the dry signal. You still have a dry analog signal that was never digitally converted, processed and converted back to analog.
It's been about two years since I've listened to any outboard FX, so maybe they've increased the sampling & bit rates to improve this "tone sucking" problem.
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 7:21:39 GMT -7
Post by benttop (Steve) on May 12, 2006 7:21:39 GMT -7
Although the verbs are better in high end digital rack gear than the Holy Grail, I have found that the Grail is less of a tone sucker than any Lexicon unit I've tried. When I was using more outboard FX in my studio (I now use software convolution reverbs mostly) I tried 3 different Lexicon units and a couple Alesis units in the FX loop of a Maz & Bogner Shiva. These things really altered the tone in a BAD way. I also tried patching guitar > FX > amp, with similar results. When doing this with the holy grail, the tone change wasn't as dramatic. The reason these FX units sound so good in a mixer is that generally, you have the dry signal all by itself, but also sent out to the FX, returned with some FX and mixed back with the dry signal. You still have a dry analog signal that was never digitally converted, processed and converted back to analog. It's been about two years since I've listened to any outboard FX, so maybe they've increased the sampling & bit rates to improve this "tone sucking" problem. My Yamaha SPX-2000 is a 24 Bit 96 KHz sampling rate processor. In addition, both input and output can be set for -10/+4 so not only does it not affect the tone, you can deal with a myriad of level issues with it. But it is gigantic! It is almost as deep as it is wide! One rack space, but if you put it in a rack, it has to be one of those deep ones or it sticks out the back. Still, it sounds fantastic in the Stingray's loop, so I'm planning to use it live for reverbs, delays, tremolo, chorus, or any other time-domain effects. I'll just sit it on top of the cab and sit the Stingray directly on top of the processor. Fortunately it responds well to my FCB1010 MIDI foot controller. Getting the reverbs and delays post-preamp will definitely improve their sound.
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 8:13:40 GMT -7
Post by jwr on May 12, 2006 8:13:40 GMT -7
Putting effects in the loop is the way to go, but what gitarman1 is talking about is the difference between a series loop and a parallel loop. Most sound men use effects the same way a high quality loop on an amp does where you can mix "dry" and "wet" signals(parallel loop). Less tone sucking that way.
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 8:53:27 GMT -7
Post by guitarman1 on May 12, 2006 8:53:27 GMT -7
Although the verbs are better in high end digital rack gear than the Holy Grail, I have found that the Grail is less of a tone sucker than any Lexicon unit I've tried. When I was using more outboard FX in my studio (I now use software convolution reverbs mostly) I tried 3 different Lexicon units and a couple Alesis units in the FX loop of a Maz & Bogner Shiva. These things really altered the tone in a BAD way. I also tried patching guitar > FX > amp, with similar results. When doing this with the holy grail, the tone change wasn't as dramatic. The reason these FX units sound so good in a mixer is that generally, you have the dry signal all by itself, but also sent out to the FX, returned with some FX and mixed back with the dry signal. You still have a dry analog signal that was never digitally converted, processed and converted back to analog. It's been about two years since I've listened to any outboard FX, so maybe they've increased the sampling & bit rates to improve this "tone sucking" problem. My Yamaha SPX-2000 is a 24 Bit 96 KHz sampling rate processor. In addition, both input and output can be set for -10/+4 so not only does it not affect the tone, you can deal with a myriad of level issues with it. But it is gigantic! It is almost as deep as it is wide! One rack space, but if you put it in a rack, it has to be one of those deep ones or it sticks out the back. Still, it sounds fantastic in the Stingray's loop, so I'm planning to use it live for reverbs, delays, tremolo, chorus, or any other time-domain effects. I'll just sit it on top of the cab and sit the Stingray directly on top of the processor. Fortunately it responds well to my FCB1010 MIDI foot controller. Getting the reverbs and delays post-preamp will definitely improve their sound. I'm gonna have to give one of those a listen. How much $$$$ Benttop?
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 8:58:25 GMT -7
Post by benttop (Steve) on May 12, 2006 8:58:25 GMT -7
My Yamaha SPX-2000 is a 24 Bit 96 KHz sampling rate processor. In addition, both input and output can be set for -10/+4 so not only does it not affect the tone, you can deal with a myriad of level issues with it. But it is gigantic! It is almost as deep as it is wide! One rack space, but if you put it in a rack, it has to be one of those deep ones or it sticks out the back. Still, it sounds fantastic in the Stingray's loop, so I'm planning to use it live for reverbs, delays, tremolo, chorus, or any other time-domain effects. I'll just sit it on top of the cab and sit the Stingray directly on top of the processor. Fortunately it responds well to my FCB1010 MIDI foot controller. Getting the reverbs and delays post-preamp will definitely improve their sound. I'm gonna have to give one of those a listen. How much $$$$ Benttop? Oh it was not cheap - $999 when I got mine a couple years back. Then I wasn't able to use it much because the Flexi-50 has a terrible unbuffered loop. In fact, the SPX-2000 is the ONLY processor I ever got to work on the Flexi, but it still affected it enough that I didn't like using it there. Sounds great on the Stingray though. I'm betting some of my other processors would work ok on the Stingray too, based on how things went with the SPX. But the SPX has the best processing of any I own, so I think I'll leave well enough alone. You can't get much better than 24 bit 96 KHz and the Yamaha reverb algorithms are mighty fine.
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 9:51:31 GMT -7
Post by ke4unr on May 12, 2006 9:51:31 GMT -7
I'm fixing to use my Yamaha SPX-2000 with my Stingray - the loop on mine SO works right - thank GOD! I can do all my time domain stuff after the preamp where it belongs, and use a MIDI pedal to control it! THAT will reduce the number of boxes on my pedal board, no doubt! I can drop the Tremolo, the Chorus, the Delay - shoot, I'll have enough room I can put my Wah back on there! COOL! ;D ;D ;D ;D Steve, While you're at it, why not go ahead and rack all of your pedals? Add a MIDI switcher (DMC GCX, etc.) and all you'll need on the floor is your FCB1010 and Wah. You know I've been doing this for some years now. I happen to use a small 8U rack, but I've got a Furman to power everything, wireless and drawer. All on 4" casters. Just slap the lids on and I'm good to go. Of course, you could get away with a smaller rack. This also adds more flexibility since you can program to turn on/off multiple pedals with one stomp on your MIDI controller. Less pedal dancing! Another potential advantage for combo users. The amp sits nicely on top of your rack getting it up closer to your ears while keeping a small footprint on the stage. Just something to consider. I realize this is not for everyone. Btw, I hope this is not getting too far off topic. I'm not meaning to hijack this thread. So, if this needs to go somewhere else, please let the "new guy" know - thanks! Ray K.
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 11:53:01 GMT -7
Post by guitarman1 on May 12, 2006 11:53:01 GMT -7
I'm fixing to use my Yamaha SPX-2000 with my Stingray - the loop on mine SO works right - thank GOD! I can do all my time domain stuff after the preamp where it belongs, and use a MIDI pedal to control it! THAT will reduce the number of boxes on my pedal board, no doubt! I can drop the Tremolo, the Chorus, the Delay - shoot, I'll have enough room I can put my Wah back on there! COOL! ;D ;D ;D ;D Steve, While you're at it, why not go ahead and rack all of your pedals? Add a MIDI switcher (DMC GCX, etc.) and all you'll need on the floor is your FCB1010 and Wah. You know I've been doing this for some years now. I happen to use a small 8U rack, but I've got a Furman to power everything, wireless and drawer. All on 4" casters. Just slap the lids on and I'm good to go. Of course, you could get away with a smaller rack. This also adds more flexibility since you can program to turn on/off multiple pedals with one stomp on your MIDI controller. Less pedal dancing! Another potential advantage for combo users. The amp sits nicely on top of your rack getting it up closer to your ears while keeping a small footprint on the stage. Just something to consider. I realize this is not for everyone. Btw, I hope this is not getting too far off topic. I'm not meaning to hijack this thread. So, if this needs to go somewhere else, please let the "new guy" know - thanks! Ray K. Many moons ago when I was doing this full time, I use to have a rack with a few processors and a MIDI controller on the floor. I was using this through a Boogie Mark III head & 2 cabs. Since then, I've really trimmed down and the only pedals I use are 1 compressor & 2 ODs. I was just thinking about a nice reverb in front of my RX ES, but for a grand, I like a dry signal just fine. Ray, I noticed you have beam blockers. Do they help get the sound up to your ears if your amp is on the floor? I'm getting tired of carrying an amp stand around.
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Reverb?
May 12, 2006 13:12:52 GMT -7
Post by benttop (Steve) on May 12, 2006 13:12:52 GMT -7
I'm fixing to use my Yamaha SPX-2000 with my Stingray - the loop on mine SO works right - thank GOD! I can do all my time domain stuff after the preamp where it belongs, and use a MIDI pedal to control it! THAT will reduce the number of boxes on my pedal board, no doubt! I can drop the Tremolo, the Chorus, the Delay - shoot, I'll have enough room I can put my Wah back on there! COOL! ;D ;D ;D ;D Steve, While you're at it, why not go ahead and rack all of your pedals? Add a MIDI switcher (DMC GCX, etc.) and all you'll need on the floor is your FCB1010 and Wah. You know I've been doing this for some years now. I happen to use a small 8U rack, but I've got a Furman to power everything, wireless and drawer. All on 4" casters. Just slap the lids on and I'm good to go. Of course, you could get away with a smaller rack. This also adds more flexibility since you can program to turn on/off multiple pedals with one stomp on your MIDI controller. Less pedal dancing! Another potential advantage for combo users. The amp sits nicely on top of your rack getting it up closer to your ears while keeping a small footprint on the stage. Just something to consider. I realize this is not for everyone. Btw, I hope this is not getting too far off topic. I'm not meaning to hijack this thread. So, if this needs to go somewhere else, please let the "new guy" know - thanks! Ray K. Yep, been there, done that, and I still have the loop switcher to prove it! You never know - but when I did this before, the rack got so heavy I didn't want to bring it! d'OH!
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Reverb?
May 13, 2006 8:15:38 GMT -7
Post by ke4unr on May 13, 2006 8:15:38 GMT -7
Ray, I noticed you have beam blockers. Do they help get the sound up to your ears if your amp is on the floor? I'm getting tired of carrying an amp stand around. Yes! The hype is true and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't tried them myself - first on another small combo amp. These things are slick, and IMHO ought to be standard issue on any amp. Btw, they're not just for combos. I know of folks using them on 212 and 412 cabs as well. The results are kind of hard to put into words...like explaining what a Dr. Z amp sounds like. But it sort of evens out the sound where the highs aren't hitting you in the ears first. It definitely reduces the dreaded "ice pick", which the folks in the first few rows will thank you for if you're using your amp at the backline. And, it is nice to be able to stand right next to your amp and still be able to hear. Steve and I know each other from another group on the net. He uses them also and can give you his Grammy...I mean Blues Society award winning opinion. ;D Ray
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Reverb?
May 13, 2006 8:22:38 GMT -7
Post by ke4unr on May 13, 2006 8:22:38 GMT -7
Yep, been there, done that, and I still have the loop switcher to prove it! You never know - but when I did this before, the rack got so heavy I didn't want to bring it! d'OH! Casters, Steve, top quality/large casters.... Oh, and a Tommy Lift on the back of your SUV.
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Reverb?
May 13, 2006 9:56:26 GMT -7
Post by benttop (Steve) on May 13, 2006 9:56:26 GMT -7
Yep, been there, done that, and I still have the loop switcher to prove it! You never know - but when I did this before, the rack got so heavy I didn't want to bring it! d'OH! Casters, Steve, top quality/large casters.... Oh, and a Tommy Lift on the back of your SUV. Well that last version rack I had here was so heavy I may as well have put tires and a trailer hitch on that thing... But that's the problem with rack setups - you always want one more device, and it's "only one rack space" and the next thing you know, you're lugging a 20 space rack out, using each device once or twice, and growing a pair of hernias along the way. I just took the ultimate leap of faith here - bought a two space rack and I have vowed to keep any rack gear in those two spaces. That's the ticket!
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Reverb?
May 13, 2006 19:12:31 GMT -7
Post by garyh on May 13, 2006 19:12:31 GMT -7
I went through the same thing. Had a rack set up with two marshall cabs and a JMP1 preamp, mapped a midi controller to the preamp and rack effects to switch everything at once with a midi pedal board. It sounded great and super versatile but got tired of lugging it all around and plugging all the cables in. Walked into a music store one day and traded it all for a Peavey Classic 50 just to get straight and simple.
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Reverb?
May 13, 2006 20:25:45 GMT -7
Post by LeftyLang on May 13, 2006 20:25:45 GMT -7
I just heard that T-Rex will be coming out with a Reverb Pedal that is tube driven....called the Roommate Reverb. I might try it out, but it will probably be expensive.
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Reverb?
May 15, 2006 7:48:11 GMT -7
Post by hiftbso on May 15, 2006 7:48:11 GMT -7
Thanks for all the replies so far. I agree that running the verb at the board is a good idea. I have a Yamaha Rev7 that I use for that and it sounds great. The only problem is that I have no control over it, so I only do this if I really trust the person running sound and they know when and how to use it. If they are going to just crank it up and leave it on all night I would rather use my Holy Grail. At least I can be sure it is being used corectly even if it is not the best sounding reverb. Does anyone have a Soldano Surf Box or Fender stand only Reverb Unit?
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Reverb?
May 15, 2006 10:20:40 GMT -7
Post by billyguitar on May 15, 2006 10:20:40 GMT -7
When my Stang Ray comes in I'll hook up the Fender reverb tank. I'm sure it'll sound great. To me, THAT'S A REVERB. If I gig with reverb I'll probably use the Holy Grail because it sounds enough like a spring to satisfy me. I don't dig studio reverb for live playing.
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Reverb?
May 15, 2006 19:52:51 GMT -7
Post by skydog958 on May 15, 2006 19:52:51 GMT -7
I had my eyes on an Uncle Spot for ages...but the prices went up and I do dig the dry tone from my amp...but I still want tube driven spring reverb (a la Peter Green).
I know that the typical way to run reverb tanks like fender ones is before the amp, but I also know that on most amps with built in reverb, the verb is after the tone stack and gain stages. So, could you run a reverb tank between the head and the cab??
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Reverb?
May 15, 2006 22:58:24 GMT -7
Post by match on May 15, 2006 22:58:24 GMT -7
skydog958 you can't run the reverb tank b/w the head and cab. I believe it's an impedance mismatch. I've never tried but I don't believe a sound would even come out. I owned a Fender 63' reissue reverb tank some years back and the only place it sounded good was in front of the amp. It sounded terrible in the FX loop. I have found that my KT45, which I think you also own, sounds great with anything I've run into it. Delays, Reverbs, Tremolo, Filter FX, and of course overdrive/distortion/fuzz. I do wish it had an FX loop just for the modulation, time based stuff, so I could crank the amp up and use my hotplate to attenuate the volume getting that natural distortion that only the amp can provide. But I find the KT45 to be so clean with so much available headroom, that I don't even think twice about throwing any effect it's way. ;D Hope this helps. Take care, -Matt
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Reverb?
May 16, 2006 5:46:36 GMT -7
Post by guitarhead on May 16, 2006 5:46:36 GMT -7
Anyone ever try the "Little Lanilei" spring reverb pedal?
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