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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 14:19:19 GMT -7
Does anyone have a Ray that bought the Wreck. Some things sound similar..Hopefully someone can compare ..Maybe I can get in on the Nov Shipment..Maybe
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Post by gotmojo on Oct 21, 2010 15:56:51 GMT -7
I've been A-B'ing with the Stang Ray and the Remedy and a Vox AC30. All different, all good. The Wreck is most similar to the Ray and AC30, but still quite different.
The Remedy is just a completely different sound from the Wreck.
To me the Ray really has one sound, done most excellently. The Wreck can be made to mimic the Ray fairly closely, but I couldn't get exactly the same voicing nor does it seem to have as much of the natural inherent compression that the Ray has when dimed (where I run it!). However, the Wreck does have a very nice compression aspect to it. And the Wreck has the ability to go way deep into smooth overdrive - very sweet nazz to my ear. The Ray gets to a certain point of nazz and that's all you're gonna get.
The other difference is the Wreck can really get quite a few different voices with the interactive tone knobs and I've just scratched the surface of the possibilities, yet all being kinda Wreck-like. I can get it pretty close to the AC30 also, but not exact. It's a nice trio to own if the luxury is yours: Remedy/Ray/Wreck. The three R's (sort of).
I think in the long run I'm gonna see these as several different amps that cover their own territory each of it's own natural genetics, and not see the Wreck as an amp which can do what all the others do. (And it won't surprise me to find there are some folks who don't care for the Wreck so much.) Such is the nature of amps in my experience, even same model amps sounding distinctly different from each other. Like people, we're all the same, but different. Probably best that way. For amps and people.
jj
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Post by gotmojo on Oct 21, 2010 16:52:29 GMT -7
Well .......... Since writing that last post I've spent a little more time with the Wreck and the Ray, and I gotta amend what I said before! If you play the Wreck pretty clean you can get it to be pretty close to the sound of the Stang Ray, with some pretty sweet natural amp compression to it. This is a pretty complex amp with a lot of variables so any thing I say today is up for amendment tomorrow. Or an hour from now. 'Fraid you're gonna have to get one for yourself to be the judge o' dat. Do not trust anything I say!
Still, it's fun to talk about it here. If you lived here in my town I'd probably be calling you several times a day to tell you my newest impressions. Drive ya freakin' crazy. Lucky I don't have your phone number.
jj
this board is my outlet and you, innocent bystanders. you do have a choice: when you see my name attached, just say no.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 18:06:21 GMT -7
Yeah I was bummed when I saw who was responding. jk Glad you like it. I've been chaining my Brakes with the Ray and get some breakup that isn't there with less attenuation. Once my Family member is ok I'll focus my attention on a Wreck. For now, I just have to make sure I'm in a position to help him when the need arises.. I'm sure he'd do the same for me.
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Post by ruger9 on Oct 22, 2010 4:30:38 GMT -7
So, with the Wreck having so much more gain on tap (less headroom), can it get that Ray clean-hairy-growl at lower volumes than the Ray?
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Post by humbucker427 on Oct 22, 2010 5:09:48 GMT -7
It can indeed.
The Stang Ray is a noticeably cleaner amp at louder volumes, while the Z-Wreck starts to break up a good bit earlier.
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Post by gotmojo on Oct 22, 2010 7:57:46 GMT -7
Amendment time again. Just spent another hour plus cranking through this amp (cranking being a relative term, as I'm using an Air Brake) and I must amend a former statement: on re-evaluation I can't actually imagine any folks not caring for this amp. It really is an excellent piece o' equipment. Fun to play, fun to twiddle the dials on, fun to switch to different pickups through. Fun.
Ruger9: in answer to your question regarding earlier growl than the Ray, I say: Yes ......... I guess. I always play the Ray with the volume maxed and through an Air Brake clicked down pretty hard, like 3 or 4 clicks, and to me it actually has quite a bit of hair and growl, pretty nazzy to my ears. Like just the right amount o' nazz. After reading your question I A-B'ed the Wreck and Ray (and the Remedy) again with that in mind and found that with both amps set at the same volume, I didn't mind at all that the Wreck setting I had was a bit more nazzier than the Ray, because the Wreck's nazz was so smooth and musical (like the Ray's) and so adjustable from the guitar volume that it was a wash. I dug the sound of either amp completely no matter what kinda tune I was playing.
With the above in mind, I gotta say: Is this a great amp? Yes it is. Is it better than the Ray and Remedy? Right now I gotta say, not really. It is absolutely equal in greatness! Only different. An addict like me couldn't possibly think about letting any one of these three great amps go. Get each of them set up in their sweet spot to your ears and switch back and forth between 'em and you really don't care which amp your playing!
Thanks Mikey Z!
jj
ever rambling' on at the post
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Post by teleluvver on Oct 22, 2010 10:20:44 GMT -7
I have been wanting a 'Ray for a while. THEN, the 'Wreck comes along and I've been pondering, biding my time, and watching reviews of folks who are starting to get their 'Wrecks delivered. What I'm seeing so far is that the 'Ray and the 'Wreck are probably similar enough for a player like me that cannot crank amps and uses pedals. I like a great clean platform at manageable stage volumes, then add pedals for dirt. 'mojo, would you say that the 'Ray clean and the 'Wreck clean are about the same? Thanks.
Phil
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Post by asattwanger on Oct 22, 2010 12:42:53 GMT -7
My question is can you Ray with a volume pedal backed off a bit and then gained out with the toe down without alot of volume loss. You know the Junior Brown trick. Been getting off on it alot lately
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Post by gotmojo on Oct 22, 2010 19:36:28 GMT -7
I have been wanting a 'Ray for a while. THEN, the 'Wreck comes along and I've been pondering, biding my time, and watching reviews of folks who are starting to get their 'Wrecks delivered. What I'm seeing so far is that the 'Ray and the 'Wreck are probably similar enough for a player like me that cannot crank amps and uses pedals. I like a great clean platform at manageable stage volumes, then add pedals for dirt. 'mojo, would you say that the 'Ray clean and the 'Wreck clean are about the same? Thanks. Phil Hey Teleluvver, Well I'm no expert, but the Ray and the Wreck played clean are similar, but not the same. Both have that EL84 thang going on with nice compression, but different preamps, the Ray having that EF86 up front. As I said earlier, two great amps and in my opinion a body would be very happy with either. The Wreck has a few more choices in tones and hair, but then is twice the price. If you can't crank the amp, either one will give you a wider range of use paired up with a Z brake. I'd say this, if you have the extra cash around and are gutsy enough to spend a wad, the Wreck'll cover lots of ground and I don't think you'll be disappointed. If you are not as flush with the bread (and who is these days?), then the Ray is a great place to start, and I don't think you'll be disappointed. And if it hooks you in, you'll eventually be Jonesing for a Wreck down the road and you can save your spare change up to splurge for it in the future. That rambling bit of postage was probably no help whatsoever. Sorry. jj
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2010 21:09:20 GMT -7
I have been wanting a 'Ray for a while. THEN, the 'Wreck comes along and I've been pondering, biding my time, and watching reviews of folks who are starting to get their 'Wrecks delivered. What I'm seeing so far is that the 'Ray and the 'Wreck are probably similar enough for a player like me that cannot crank amps and uses pedals. I like a great clean platform at manageable stage volumes, then add pedals for dirt. 'mojo, would you say that the 'Ray clean and the 'Wreck clean are about the same? Thanks. Phil Hey Teleluvver, Well I'm no expert, but the Ray and the Wreck played clean are similar, but not the same. Both have that EL84 thang going on with nice compression, but different preamps, the Ray having that EF86 up front. As I said earlier, two great amps and in my opinion a body would be very happy with either. The Wreck has a few more choices in tones and hair, but then is twice the price. If you can't crank the amp, either one will give you a wider range of use paired up with a Z brake. I'd say this, if you have the extra cash around and are gutsy enough to spend a wad, the Wreck'll cover lots of ground and I don't think you'll be disappointed. If you are not as flush with the bread (and who is these days?), then the Ray is a great place to start, and I don't think you'll be disappointed. And if it hooks you in, you'll eventually be Jonesing for a Wreck down the road and you can save your spare change up to splurge for it in the future. That rambling bit of postage was probably no help whatsoever. Sorry. jj Look at it this way. The Ray is 1799.00 and with a 2x12 and 8.00 maybe more with 2 C blues . SO at least 2800.00 what's another 900.00 .. It's just one more month of a payment on your credit card. You might even find someone like me who's willling to make a deal for a new Ray head and 2 new 1x12 C Blues cabs. Retail new was 3200.00 Only thing is - it 's all in Red . SO it will be louder than the other colors..
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Post by ruger9 on Oct 23, 2010 5:57:06 GMT -7
I can definitely see in the demos the Wreck has a wider pallette than the Ray. Alot of people have siad over the years the Ray is a "one-trick pony... but what a trick!!" So, I've always wanted the Ray- for the tone it gives up around 12:00-1:00 on the volume. But that's loud, and for playing up there at home an Airbrake is required. I have an AB, use it, and think it's really good.
But like Doc made the "Jr" version of the RX, was always hoping he could make the "Jr" version of the Ray. Which I think he has said, he can't. Some have suggested a change of the rectifier would bring the headroom & overall volume down a bit.
So, when I saw the Paisley vid of the Wreck, and where he had the vol, and how much hair was going on, I thought "maybe, just maybe, you could get the Ray's hair at 12:00-1:00 on the Wreck, but at a volume low enough to not NEED the AB." I'm not talking bedroom or living room volumes, I play loud at home, but not gigging volumes.
The twice as much money certainly stings, but it would be cool to be able to get those dirtier-than-the-Ray-can-provide tones, without the use of pedals. But I would really want it to have a "close to Ray" sound with the vol backed off a bit.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Oct 23, 2010 8:02:22 GMT -7
The twice as much money certainly stings, but it would be cool to be able to get those dirtier-than-the-Ray-can-provide tones, without the use of pedals. But I would really want it to have a "close to Ray" sound with the vol backed off a bit. I'm not seeing the price thing though - when you consider what you are getting in the Wreck compared to the 'ray, it's actually a pretty doggone good deal. Look at these numbers based on the current price sheet: Stang Ray Head $1,849.00 2x12 Open Back $679.00 Hardwood Front Upgrade (head) $249.00 Hardwood Front Upgrade (cab) $249.00 Alnico Blue upgrade $189.00 Alnico Gold upgrade $229.00 Head Clamshell Cover $120.00 Cab Clamshell Cover $180.00 Total Cost: $3,744.00
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Post by bluzman on Oct 23, 2010 8:32:01 GMT -7
^^^^ I did the math as soon as the pricing came up...very fair. It is a very good deal. Fair deal is actually an understatement. If I played bigger venues I'd have one of these babies too.
I am going to be experimenting with my Z-2x12 Blues Cab and tweaking it to a series Gold>Blue.
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Post by chetz on Oct 23, 2010 8:51:22 GMT -7
;)Pricing was never a part of my deceison to buy this amp......
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Post by basementhack on Oct 23, 2010 8:52:32 GMT -7
The twice as much money certainly stings, but it would be cool to be able to get those dirtier-than-the-Ray-can-provide tones, without the use of pedals. But I would really want it to have a "close to Ray" sound with the vol backed off a bit. I'm not seeing the price thing though - when you consider what you are getting in the Wreck compared to the 'ray, it's actually a pretty doggone good deal. Look at these numbers based on the current price sheet: Stang Ray Head $1,849.00 2x12 Open Back $679.00 Hardwood Front Upgrade (head) $249.00 Hardwood Front Upgrade (cab) $249.00 Alnico Blue upgrade $189.00 Alnico Gold upgrade $229.00 Head Clamshell Cover $120.00 Cab Clamshell Cover $180.00 Total Cost: $3,744.00I agree 100%. I also did the same thing first when the price was announced. The other thing I added in was the NOS tubes You can actually argue that the speaker upgrade is break even since anyone using the 'Ray would likely upgrade to at least 2 Blues anyway. I guess someone could argue they don't want the hardwood upgrades, etc, and would be just as content with a bare-bones 'Wreck..but what would be the fun in that ;D I suspect the price issue would not be as relevant if the head could be bought separate. For example, I have a 212 Z cab with Blues and I'm sure that would work out perfectly. So, in a way, buying the new cab is somewhat redundant and probably adding about $1,500 to the price. There are many factors, but I agree that if you look ar the relative value of all the pieces one is getting...it's not a bad price Keith
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Post by gotmojo on Oct 23, 2010 11:46:09 GMT -7
Oh, I Totally agree with all said above. I was gonna get one despite the price tag, 'cause I couldn't NOT get one. Addiction reigns. But $3700 IS a wad of cash, no two ways about that. And if a feller already had a 2-12 cabinet at home, you could get a lot of enjoyment outta a Ray head for $1850 at significant savings, and get a real good taste for what a Z designed 4 EL84 rig was all about. Of course, once you got that taste, you'd start thinking "if the Wreck is even more of this, I really MUST have one" and then you've ended up spending $5550. So I had hoped my ambivalent post had made this crystal clear. NOT! Even though I never did the meth - er, um .... the math - I do agree with you Benttop Steve, especially after seeing your math, which I hadn't considered, and also after playing through this amp and lastly, considering it is a turnkey, Cadillac offering. For me it is worth every penny, especially when considering what you'd spend to get some vintage piece of gear that likely wouldn't meet all the needs that this amp meets for me. However, given the choice, I'd probably have opted for a more bare bones unit without the exotic wood, covers, and without the matching cabinet - I already have too many cabs (blasphemy!). Still, I'm not complaining as the amp is stellar to my ears and I'd spend the money again in a heartbeat. All good. Very, very good. jj
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Post by humbucker427 on Oct 23, 2010 16:47:16 GMT -7
Another thing to consider is the cab itself. It is an entirely new design built and engineered around the Z-Wreck head. They played around with several sizes and configurations before finding this one to be the desired shape and size. And of course, research and development usually has a price tag associated with it. I haven't heard many people discussing the cab, but it isn't the 2x12 open back with a gold and blue upgrade. It's an entirely new 2x12 cab with different construction and dimensions.
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Post by fatsound on Oct 23, 2010 18:18:58 GMT -7
In my opinion, this is an apples to nails comparison. Other than the tube complement there really is very little in common between the 'Ray and the 'Wreck.
Logic and 'on-paper' may say otherwise, but listen to these two amps, *feel* these two amps....and it is clear that there is almost nothing similar about them.
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Post by basementhack on Oct 24, 2010 5:09:00 GMT -7
I haven't heard many people discussing the cab, but it isn't the 2x12 open back with a gold and blue upgrade. It's an entirely new 2x12 cab with different construction and dimensions. On paper, the cabs don't seem much different from a dimension perspective, unless I'm missing something?? Other than the oval opening vs the straight opening in the back, what are the differences from a construction perspective for the cab? Just curious....... Keith
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Post by gotmojo on Oct 24, 2010 6:36:43 GMT -7
According to the website the 2-12 open back is 22.25 x 27.5 x 10.25. And the Wreck cab is 21.5 x 27.5 x 10. So there is 0.75 inches in height and 0.25 inches in depth difference. And an oval back opening. And a different speaker combination not offered as standard before in other cabs. I'm curious, too. What difference is there in this completely redesigned on a clean sheet of paper cabinet? jj as Einstein said, never stop questioning (I learned that on this board!
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Post by asattwanger on Oct 24, 2010 8:19:59 GMT -7
If I would take a couple different pictures of my ST-R and the Tweed model you might no see the minor differences between these to cab. Honestly there is very little difference like a slight angled front, a 1/4" taller, and maybe a touch deeper. The cab really does sound slightly different. Note the ports on the back have not changed. Now if you take the AST with the stock rear port verse the pro panel with the bigger port you clearly hear a difference...... So if you take that into the slight Z-wreck cab changes it could be alot of difference.
For me I would not want the Blue/Gold combo. For me two Golds would be better or even better two Greens at lesser price. I would really love to crank a Z-Wreck into my EVH 4x12 and see what that is all about.
Amps need to be great for everything and not limeted by the speakers. So while I was joking about the metal thing earlier in fact it's not a joke. I would need it to be able to twang and chug. My guess the amp is head is more than willing to do what is ask but the speaker choice limets the head.
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Post by cpa2guitar on Oct 24, 2010 10:17:48 GMT -7
...Amps need to be great for everything and not limeted by the speakers. So while I was joking about the metal thing earlier in fact it's not a joke. I would need it to be able to twang and chug. My guess the amp is head is more than willing to do what is ask but the speaker choice limets the head. Asattwanger, I was also curious about Stu's comment that the Z-Wreck does not do metal. As it turns out, my Wreck did not ship until this past Friday, so I won't be able to ascertain this for myself until Wednesday. So, when I was talking to Mike Gallo at Fat Sound Guitars about the shipment details, I asked him about Stu's observation. Mike clarified the Z-Wreck does what my generation calls "Metal" (e.g., Led Zeppelin and AC/DC), but these bands are now considered "Classic Rock." He went on to state that by "Metal," Stu was referring to "Modern Metal." I see Stu has posted on this thread, so I really should defer to him. Stu: Did I understand Mike correctly? FWIW - and I mean no offense to anyone, this is just my opinion as I hear it - I find the tone of "Modern Metal" to be a large step backward from the sweet tone of the bands we now call "Classic Rock." Kirk
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Post by fatsound on Oct 24, 2010 15:23:39 GMT -7
I see Stu has posted on this thread, so I really should defer to him. Stu: Did I understand Mike correctly? Absolutely. Mike relayed to you exactly what I would have told you myself. If you need any further clarification, just let me know. Thanks!
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Post by asattwanger on Oct 24, 2010 19:45:45 GMT -7
I'm not playing Stu's or anyones words on this amps sound. Most would not say that SWART ST-R can do metal or heavey griny punk but I'm doing it. It's clearly not Lamb of God, but it's not classic rock. On top of that it's a Grosh RC-T that I'm playing in it. I've done it with alot of amps that aren't "Metal" amps, but the speakers were not Cel.Blues either.
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Post by asattwanger on Oct 25, 2010 3:08:54 GMT -7
Again to make sure I'm not giving praise or support to Swart verse DR.Z. I also played some seriously heavy non-classic rock type of music with both a Z-28 and RxJr with some pretty good results.
DAVE
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Post by fatsound on Oct 25, 2010 18:19:20 GMT -7
I'm not playing Stu's or anyones words on this amps sound. Most would not say that SWART ST-R can do metal or heavey griny punk but I'm doing it. It's clearly not Lamb of God, but it's not classic rock. On top of that it's a Grosh RC-T that I'm playing in it. I've done it with alot of amps that aren't "Metal" amps, but the speakers were not Cel.Blues either. Actually you're more right than you may even know. I threw the "it won't do Metal" thing into my write-up of the Z-Wreck for two reasons: A. It doesn't have the type of preamp gain levels that a modern Metal player is usually looking for and B. Your typical Z-Wreck buyer could care less about achieving Metal tones with this amp so why risk overselling it...... However, the Wreck has one incredible low end; much bigger than I would normally expect from an EL84 amp running through dual Alnico speakers. It actually can get that Kuh....Kunk....Kunk....Kunk low end quite nicely when needed. There is enough gain available with medium output humbuckers and a Volume setting of about 1:00 for a good player to pull off most Metal both Classic and Modern. Revisiting the amp with my Grosh Sunset '79 (11K in the bridge / 9K in the neck) after reading your post, I was surprised at just how Metal it *can* be. Thanks for making me revisit and re-think.
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Post by asattwanger on Oct 27, 2010 2:42:01 GMT -7
That's cool!!!
Cool guitar also!!!!!
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Post by muzacman02 "Jamie" on Oct 27, 2010 4:18:29 GMT -7
The only time My Ray ever could compare or come close to the Z Wreck was when I did a Gig for our City fest "Light Up Louisville" It was an outside gig Huge Stage and the Ray was running through 2- OEM Greenback Celestions in my Red 2x12 Semi Open Z cab! on about 8 on the Volume dial! it was AWESOME! One stomp of the Timmy or a mild OD and it was Ala ROCK-N-ROLL! it had that gradual sweet Breakup on it's own. I would love to buy a ZWreck Hopefully the Doc will offer more Options when it gets going. I prefer a head only or a 1x12 combo ;D I'm getting old and LAZY!
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