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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Sept 6, 2005 9:22:21 GMT -7
Greetings,
I just re-tubed my 6545 and am having amazing results. Just wanted to share. I now have a GT12AX7M in V1 & V2, NOS GEC EF86 in V3, 12AX7LPS in V4, 2x GTE34LS H:6, and a JJ GZ34S. The tone is truly amazing with a beautiful clean gain on the SRZ-65 Side. Very reminiscent of a HIWATT/JTM45 PLEXI combination. I run the master high and gain about 1/2 way up. Just the right amount of grit when you turn down so that picking dynamics shine through, lighten up for clean or dig in for some grit. The KT45 side is even more beautiful than before with the GEC EF86 in there. And as an added bonus now the volume levels between the two channels is balanced (both masters on 6)!! I really love the NOS EF86 and the 12AX7Ms on the 65 side really seem to bring the amp into a perfect place tone wise....at least for me !
Paul
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Post by myles on Oct 20, 2005 14:49:32 GMT -7
I did not think the 45 side of the amp had a master or was affected by the master on the 65 side. ?
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Post by scott on Oct 22, 2005 18:07:28 GMT -7
The 45 side has Treble, Bass and Volume.
It is in no way affected by the master on the 65 side.
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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Feb 2, 2006 12:18:33 GMT -7
Sorry for any confusion on my post. I used the term master more technical than it probably should. What I was saying is that now I do not have any volume jumps when switching channels now. Used to have a big jump up going to the SRZ-65 side. What I was noticing was that having the volume on the KT-45 side on six was not equal to the volume on the SRZ-65 side on the same level. Hope that clarifies without adding more confusion.
Myles: Love the GAB web site. So much to learn in one location. Extremely useful.
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Post by terryg on Feb 2, 2006 13:29:51 GMT -7
wow man, that's some serendipity. I like the Brimars in the 65-side, but I've got some butt-kicking 12AX7Ms I really want to put in there. No complaints here about the Brimars, I just like experimenting. Trane, what caused you to switch?
That GAB site has cost me more money than anything else in recent years, and provided more benefit. It's an encyclopedia to me, thanks Myles!
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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Feb 3, 2006 11:31:09 GMT -7
Terry,
Actually this post was from my Pre-Briamr days. I posted it last year and did not realize I was causing some confusion with my comments. I really liked the 12AX7Ms but I am in love with the Brimar tone. Basically the 12AX7M is darker and less gain than the Brimar. Not a bad tube by any means but I would not go back now that I have the Brimars. I was just trying to clear up some confusion I caused earlier.
Paul
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Post by terryg on Feb 3, 2006 13:40:27 GMT -7
Ah, now I see - this thread started in September! This last batch of 12AX7Ms I've got are to me the strongest and fullest yet. Since I'm kind of going 40/60 between my 6545 and Z28 at the moment, I'm going to try them in the 6545.
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Post by myles on Feb 7, 2006 13:02:15 GMT -7
Ah, now I see - this thread started in September! This last batch of 12AX7Ms I've got are to me the strongest and fullest yet. Since I'm kind of going 40/60 between my 6545 and Z28 at the moment, I'm going to try them in the 6545. Terry, GT has gone through a continual growth cycle on the M's. Tooling has been changed and materials have been changed and the latest batch is nicer than ever. BUT .... those M's you have were all hand traced by me so they are sort of their own deal in a way. They were from my Brad Paisley collection.
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Post by terryg on Feb 7, 2006 13:59:54 GMT -7
Terry, GT has gone through a continual growth cycle on the M's. Tooling has been changed and materials have been changed and the latest batch is nicer than ever. BUT .... those M's you have were all hand traced by me so they are sort of their own deal in a way. They were from my Brad Paisley collection. Those M's are beautiful, yes. The numbers are the best I've seen! I feel so so special, thanks Myles! +1 Maybe now I'll start selling records and touring constantly....oh wait, I need to write great songs first.
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Post by myles on Feb 7, 2006 18:10:59 GMT -7
Terry, GT has gone through a continual growth cycle on the M's. Tooling has been changed and materials have been changed and the latest batch is nicer than ever. BUT .... those M's you have were all hand traced by me so they are sort of their own deal in a way. They were from my Brad Paisley collection. Those M's are beautiful, yes. The numbers are the best I've seen! I feel so so special, thanks Myles! +1 Maybe now I'll start selling records and touring constantly....oh wait, I need to write great songs first. Terry, Keep in mind.... 1. I know your amps 2. I know your guitars 3. I know what you like to play. 4. I know what you like to listen to. sooooo..... That last batch of 5 or so were hand traced specifically for you. That is a part of the "blueprinting" thing. Glad you like them. Now .... do you want to go more gain? more compression? More articulation or definition? tighter? looser (great to cover mistakes)? well ... we can do that now much more easily. As a side note .... the guys where I use the "fastest tubes" in a manner of speaking for some of their amps are Carl Verheyen and Brad Paisley. They are even more articulate with actual notes played .... than speed metal tappers and players. On most of those folks on the GT F&R list I have rise times slower than some of the M's I made for you! You are a better player than you give yourself credit for being as a side side side note.
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Post by terryg on Feb 8, 2006 0:09:16 GMT -7
Those M's are beautiful, yes. The numbers are the best I've seen! I feel so so special, thanks Myles! +1 Maybe now I'll start selling records and touring constantly....oh wait, I need to write great songs first. Terry, Keep in mind.... 1. I know your amps 2. I know your guitars 3. I know what you like to play. 4. I know what you like to listen to. Myles, You know me more than I know me I think. And that's a good thing! In the years I've known you, you have *never* steered me wrong in my gear and equipment, which very seriously and fundamentally amount to the tools that are providing the most fulfilling musical experiences I've had. What's more, I realize all the time that what I'm doing now is never going to end - there is so much to learn! They're all placed into service, yes! There were a pair of Ms that had similar triode values, so they went into V1 and V2 of the 6545. (This will predominantly focus on the 65-side, since that's where the 12AX7Ms are in the tone stack.) Yes, the Brimars are just fine in there, and what I get now is an amp that's fuller sounding but not so aggressive on the top end. It's really what I like. It feels like a very strong front end. Well, the feel of the amp (again, 65-side) is remarkably different. It feels like the attack is actually hmm, a bit more violin-like, if that makes sense. When I [attempt to] play fast passages, the notes seems to ramp up a little...does that make sense? I rather like it (slower rise time, right?), and it seems more prevalent in the middle- to upper-registers of the guitar I was using (335alike, Bartolini humbuckers). Going in for power chords and riffing is really really gratifying. Again, the Brimars are great, but these GT 12AX7Ms are giving me a totally different amp. If I had to compare, I think the Brimars were probably a bit tighter and brighter - "edgier" if you will. FWIW I tried both a balanced 12AX7M with what are now "moderate" index values (100-range) and a balanced R2 (110-range). I went with the R2 because it seems to give me some clarity into the back end. And, isn't this the tube that Mr. Zaite originally used in his design? (Edit: the above is referring to the phase inverter.) uhh ahh, wow man, thanks! that's *huge* coming from you! I'm majorly blushing over here! I've got to start practicing - I want to stop playing noise in your house, into an amp that I'd eventually buy. Anyway, yes - slower rise time - that's exactly what I'm noticing. I've got a reasonably diverse variety of preamp tubes over the years (certainly with great gratitude to you, and my positive experiences with Mike K.), so I do have swapping opportunities....but these recent Ms are unbeatable! If I can get the other "color" characteristics but with a faster rise time, tell me where to send the check! Regarding the balanced M and R2 I got from you ... I was using the M in my Z28, quite happily. I think I mentioned that around here somewhere, in fact. My Z28 "kit" included the original 5751, the R2 for applications requiring more sizzle, and the M for it's fullness. I suppose this could be another thread, but I'm actually back to the original 5751 in my Z28. Part of that is in preparation for my Ghia acquisition, where I'll be pairing the Z28 and the Ghia. Hey, that's yet another stellar recommendation from you! Anyway, this experience has been priceless, thanks to you! Sorry this got so long, I guess I had a lot to say!
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Post by myles on Feb 8, 2006 11:40:49 GMT -7
Terry .... I will try to get into this belowTerry, Keep in mind.... 1. I know your amps 2. I know your guitars 3. I know what you like to play. 4. I know what you like to listen to. Myles, You know me more than I know me I think. And that's a good thing! In the years I've known you, you have *never* steered me wrong in my gear and equipment, which very seriously and fundamentally amount to the tools that are providing the most fulfilling musical experiences I've had. What's more, I realize all the time that what I'm doing now is never going to end - there is so much to learn! They're all placed into service, yes! There were a pair of Ms that had similar triode values, so they went into V1 and V2 of the 6545. (This will predominantly focus on the 65-side, since that's where the 12AX7Ms are in the tone stack.) Yes, the Brimars are just fine in there, and what I get now is an amp that's fuller sounding but not so aggressive on the top end. It's really what I like. It feels like a very strong front end. Well, the feel of the amp (again, 65-side) is remarkably different. It feels like the attack is actually hmm, a bit more violin-like, if that makes sense. When I [attempt to] play fast passages, the notes seems to ramp up a little...does that make sense? I rather like it (slower rise time, right?), and it seems more prevalent in the middle- to upper-registers of the guitar I was using (335alike, Bartolini humbuckers). Going in for power chords and riffing is really really gratifying. Again, the Brimars are great, but these GT 12AX7Ms are giving me a totally different amp. If I had to compare, I think the Brimars were probably a bit tighter and brighter - "edgier" if you will. What one has to keep in mind with a 6545 or a SRZ 65 is that you are basically working with a "Marshall JCM 800". Cascaded gain etc. I generally try to get my tone from V1 and then make sure V2 is at a slightly higher spec so I can drive V1 harder with pedals and not squash or compress the first gain stage as quickly and then shape it with V2. It is a delicate balance that can yield some amazing tone.
But .... you cannot just do the same Marshall 800 tricks as you do on the 6545 or SRZ-65 for a few reasons. You have to think of the Z versions as something of "the best Marshall JCM 800 that you have ever heard or played". The transformers and tone caps are better ... the circuit is tweeked in the Z way .... the tube rectifier gives a level of swell and playability (touch response) that is lacking in all but the very best examples of the 800 in the Marshall line. Then you toss in the factor of the tone controls work on the Z amps and were limited at best in the Marshall. The JCM 800 is a great rock tone. Many people did not care for the amp when it was release but later on the reason for this was as Mike Doyle (Marhall Book) put it ... he found that an 800 he did not care for all that much one day turned into his favorite of the Marshalls when he plugged into an older Marshall cab. When the 800 was release it was at the same time as a new cab and it turned out to be the new cab that dragged things down the toilet. So, the 6545 and SRZ-65 have the foundation of a great rock amp taken to proper levels.FWIW I tried both a balanced 12AX7M with what are now "moderate" index values (100-range) and a balanced R2 (110-range). I went with the R2 because it seems to give me some clarity into the back end. And, isn't this the tube that Mr. Zaite originally used in his design? Mike now uses both M's and R2's(Edit: the above is referring to the phase inverter.) uhh ahh, wow man, thanks! that's *huge* coming from you! I'm majorly blushing over here! I've got to start practicing - I want to stop playing noise in your house, into an amp that I'd eventually buy. You do just fine at my place. Remember .... Nat hears a lot of folks come over every week and you are one where she says to me .... "why don't you play like that" when you leave. I give her my simple direct answer ... "I can't".Anyway, yes - slower rise time - that's exactly what I'm noticing. I've got a reasonably diverse variety of preamp tubes over the years (certainly with great gratitude to you, and my positive experiences with Mike K.), so I do have swapping opportunities....but these recent Ms are unbeatable! If I can get the other "color" characteristics but with a faster rise time, tell me where to send the check! Terry ..... no check necessary. We have given each other all sorts of things over time and you are way ahead of me and I still owe you. I am already working on your next set for your next trip out west!Regarding the balanced M and R2 I got from you ... I was using the M in my Z28, quite happily. I think I mentioned that around here somewhere, in fact. My Z28 "kit" included the original 5751, the R2 for applications requiring more sizzle, and the M for it's fullness. I suppose this could be another thread, but I'm actually back to the original 5751 in my Z28. Part of that is in preparation for my Ghia acquisition, where I'll be pairing the Z28 and the Ghia. Hey, that's yet another stellar recommendation from you! Anyway, this experience has been priceless, thanks to you! Sorry this got so long, I guess I had a lot to say! I have no problem with long posts!
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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Feb 9, 2006 8:40:37 GMT -7
Terry,
How did the re-biasing to 38mA or 42mA go? I know you were looking at going to 60% bias on your head and was wondering what you noticed and what you thought. How is it different/better performance and tone wise?
Paul
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Post by terryg on Feb 9, 2006 10:17:42 GMT -7
Howdy Paul!
I went to about 38ma w/ 418V, tube rectified. (wow, I didn't write that in my notes, good thing I remembered!)
I love this amp! I didn't go past that mostly because I'm running hardness 5 E34LS tubes...for some reason that escapes me at the moment...but it sounds *great*. This is definitely my "rock" amp. But it's so much more, too. The clean out of the 65 side with the master all up, controlling volume with the gain, is really big and full, and quite different than what I get on the 45 side. This amp is a home run! Terry
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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Feb 14, 2006 9:03:59 GMT -7
Terry,
When you set your bias level did you have your volumes at zero? Just wondering if it is best to have them set at zero when setting the current level.
Paul
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Post by terryg on Feb 14, 2006 10:25:06 GMT -7
Hey Paul!
I sure did - everything zeroed. I forget why, but the habit is there.
This is OT, but I just wanted to observe that I found that the simple little round Roland FS-1 footswitch is a nice replacement for the larger box that came with the amp. Much smaller pedalboard footprint.
Terry
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Post by myles on Feb 14, 2006 12:16:20 GMT -7
When biasing ....
Volume at zero
Tones set midway
Nothing in the input
Speaker cab or load connected.
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Post by terryg on Feb 14, 2006 14:07:02 GMT -7
Myles - noted! Is there much deviation in measurement given I had everything zeroed vs tones half-up? That is, I'll measure again if you think it's prudent to do so. Thanks...a change in habit is a sign of growth.
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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Feb 15, 2006 8:34:09 GMT -7
Wow. So much great information on one site. Too cool. Terry, thanks for the tip on the foot switch. I have not mounted the switch on my pedal board. I play quite a bit without my pedals so I would be taking it off and on a lot and thanks for anwering my bias question so quickly. Myles, thanks for the tips on biasing too (both here and on email too). I am really looking forward to getting my Bias Rite. Wish it was already here.
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Post by terryg on Feb 15, 2006 10:01:45 GMT -7
Hi Paul, I second that emotion! This is a really comfortable place (I just got 'Thela Hun Ginjeet' in my head. Anyone else?)
Funny thing is I don't put that little round Roland switch on my board either. It's like this little satellite pod thing that floats around at my feet.
Take it easy! Terry
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Post by myles on Feb 17, 2006 19:10:49 GMT -7
Myles - noted! Is there much deviation in measurement given I had everything zeroed vs tones half-up? That is, I'll measure again if you think it's prudent to do so. Thanks...a change in habit is a sign of growth. With no signal the tone controls mean nothing actually so you are fine and dandy!
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