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Post by billyguitar on Jan 9, 2006 10:59:23 GMT -7
I don't have a Z-28 because I'm really not a fan of 6V6s but this question occured to me recently. I know some 6V6 Fenders can run 6L6's with a re-bias, depending on the individual amp. Has anyone explored using 6L6's in a Z-28?
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Post by Curt on Jan 9, 2006 12:56:13 GMT -7
Been wonderin' that myself...Doc? Myles?
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Post by rcrecelius on Jan 9, 2006 14:03:05 GMT -7
This thought has crossed my mind as well...hopefully the good Dr or Myles will chime in with their thoughts.
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Post by Curt on Jan 9, 2006 14:16:31 GMT -7
I don't have a Z-28 because I'm really not a fan of 6V6s but this question occured to me recently. I know some 6V6 Fenders can run 6L6's with a re-bias, depending on the individual amp. Has anyone explored using 6L6's in a Z-28? Billy, FWIW the Z-28 is not like any other 6v6 amp I've played..to me it's closer to the '67 bassman head I played...and regret selling, with the Z thang goin' for it
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Post by LeftyLang on Jan 9, 2006 21:23:26 GMT -7
hmmmmm...I would be interested in this as well....
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 10, 2006 13:39:20 GMT -7
I've always heard a choking kind of thing with 6V6s, that's why I don't care for them.
To: Tele 62 You referred to a '67 Bassman. I never had a Blackface Bassman but I've got a 61, a 62 and a 68 so I'm pretty familiar with those sounds. To me a Z-28 sounds most like the normal channel on my 62 Super. That amp has 6L6s. It had to have the output tranformer replaced because it started smoking! I can't say for sure but I'm pretty sure it's louder than a Z-28 so I've really never cranked it up. It's also fixed bias so it doesn't sag much.
I think the Z-28 is a more usable powered amp I just wonder if that gargling/choking sound would go away if it had 6L6s.
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Post by Curt on Jan 10, 2006 14:14:37 GMT -7
Hey Billy, I hope Myles or Mike Z will pop in and answer us here..seems lots of us are wonderin' about this. Seems somewhere I read some picker in Nashville had done it.
Curt
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Post by JChance on Jan 10, 2006 14:23:32 GMT -7
I talked to Dr. Z about this a while back. When I bought my MAZ 38, I was also considering a Z-28 with 4 10's. The good Dr told me that the benefits of adding 6L6's wouldn't change the amp much at all because of the way it's designed. Very little (if any) headroom increase, and the only reason you might consider it would be to change the tonal character. He actually discouraged it. The Z-28 is what it is... So if you want more power and the "same" amp, go for the Route 66 with the same front end, but (obviously) KT66's. To my ears, the Route 66 is similar to the Z-28, but bigger, fatter. The Z-28 is snottier....agressive. But it's also loud and quite capable of keeping up with smaller 6L6 based Fenders (Vibrolux, etc.)
JC
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Post by Lefty on Jan 10, 2006 17:08:56 GMT -7
I think alot of guys who don't like 6V6's are stuck thinkn "Deluxe Reverb". In no way shape or form can you compare a DR with a Z-28. All they have in common is two 6V6's.
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Post by myles on Jan 10, 2006 20:07:51 GMT -7
I don't have a Z-28 because I'm really not a fan of 6V6s but this question occured to me recently. I know some 6V6 Fenders can run 6L6's with a re-bias, depending on the individual amp. Has anyone explored using 6L6's in a Z-28? Many folks think a 6V6 is something of a 6L6 with about 40% less output. This is quite untrue. The 6V6 is actually more closely sonic to an EL84. In fact, many folks can use an EL-84 output transformer for 6V6 applications and its fine and dandy. A 6V6 can "chime" like an EL84 .... a 6L6 really cannot. I would never try to stick a 6L6 in a 6V6 amp even with a rebias. To me this sounds awful and the heater current of twice as much may not do great things to a power transformer which is a bit older. Putting a 6V6 into a 6L6 amp by the way is a fast track to blowing up things, so never go in this direction. (And for folks that watched me test JJ 6V6s in a Fender Super Reverb biased at 28mA at 470 plate volts all I can say is DO AS I SAID NOT AS I DID! By the way the JJ 6V6's held up fine for over an hour when we were running this test! If you want a 6L6 amp you'd be better off dropping a set in a Route 66 than a Z-28.
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Post by myles on Jan 10, 2006 20:10:08 GMT -7
I think alot of guys who don't like 6V6's are stuck thinkn "Deluxe Reverb". In no way shape or form can you compare a DR with a Z-28. All they have in common is two 6V6's. Actually ... the Z-28 can cop the BF Deluxe tones with the treble up quite a way but also the brown tolex deluxe really nicely. With a 4x10 open back cab with P-10R's run a Z-28 next to a good tweed bassman and compare those two amps. You may get a surprise.
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Post by taswegian on Jan 11, 2006 1:12:42 GMT -7
I'm more interested in the "lower powered Route 66 meets Marshall" aspect of the Z-28.
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Post by groovergeorge on Jan 11, 2006 7:07:46 GMT -7
I am under the general impression that an extremely high percentage of you guys that own/gig with the Z28 are Gibson/bucker players and not many use a Strat or Tele with single coils with this amp. Is there anyone out there that uses a Fender type guitar with single coils extensively with this amp and if so what style of music do you play to give me some kind of idea of the tone you are pulling through the 28'?
I've seen Jonny Lang do that stinging blues thing with a 72' humbucker Tele through a Fender (custom shop) Vibroking and they are supposed to be loaded with 3x10's and run on 6V6's. Is the tone that thing producessimilar? Without meaning to sound too opinionated, that left me very dissapointed after playing one about 3 years ago. A Victoria Bassman on the other hand was a completley different story but hey I'm not interested in buying either of those,I want a second Z' and I'm pulling my hair out trying to go through a process of illimination. Because I live in Australia I can't walk into a shop and try one so I can only go by sound bytes, advice and reviews. Unfortunately all three can sometimes lead you up the "Kyber pass" so to speak.
This is where I am at so far.
For my tone, the Maz Invasion seems great. The Ghia seemed a little to "little" an amp........nothing to do with volume by the way. The Mazerati was a possibility but it sounds like it's just got too much clean headroom so not a good consideration when garage rehearsals cause windows too start shaking before any dirt starts coming out of it. The KT45 sounds a killer for doing that Pink Floyd really big open guitar sound but other than that might not be all that versatile and I don't think my eardrums would last the end of the year. The srz/45 is just too high gain soldano modern for me and I'm no shredder which brings me to basically 3 amps left,well maybe 4!
1. The Prescription rx/es
This amp seems to be able to pull it all of but still has a very distinct personallity of its own. I watched the Eagles farewell 1 (Melbourne) Live concert on DVD the other night and ran it through my Mackie.I could swear that I could pick the songs he used it on, which were very distinct. This amp has a really distict midrange, i haven't heard anything like it before, it can twang with the best of them but I think can pull ol' school rock riffs as well, including old plexi marshalls and old top boost ac30's.
There was one on the bay' a couple of weeks that was a red tolex combo and was loaded with 2 vox blues that sold after being listed for 2 days for $1500. I'm still in therapy over missing that one ;-(
2: Route 66
The amp just sounds so full. Im more of a blues/country/rock twang type player,hence the Eagles dvd.I guess hard to nail a style down as I cross over many genres and I am influenced by many styles but for a big Malcome Young/Jimmy Page early Zep,Clapton tone I don't think there is a better rig made these days. I still play some brit pop from the 90's as well like Oasis. This amp would kill that i'm sure. I'm just a little concerned how versatile it might be if I need to turn it down and play some sweet melodic phrases without the Texas sizzle.
3. Z28.
By all accounts is an even dirtier rig without the clean headroom as my Maz 38, that isn't really all that suited to single coils. Hey it sounds killer, but am I correct in assuming it's pretty limited to a Paul(yeh i got one but it does'n get gigged and only get's pulled out of the cupboard for something different,like at home jams)?
4. Stingray
I don't know anythging about it other than it's going to run on 4 El84' in class A.
I mainly use my tele/strat and now have gotten into a double cut P90 TV special. So its either 2 of these 3, that go to gigs. I'm not into lugging 4 electrics,3 acoustics and a hammond b to a gig............portability and versatility is a big factor.
I hope I haven't rambled on too much. I appreciate your thoughts,normally i just keep this to myself but it's really expensive buying something in the USA an shipping it out here just to find the tone isn't to my liking. Dr Z has no dealer here in Australia so it's basically a lucky dip. I took a chance first time round with my Maz Invasion and is now the best amp i've ever owned. Absolutely sensationallly responsive is a better way to describe it. My faith in his amps now is 100%, I have been playing for 20 years on and off,know the tones i definatley don't like but have a wide range of likes as well. Below I've listed my favourite amps.
Favourite amps:
Tweed champs(slide and harp),Tweed Bassman clones(never played the real deal)Blackface Vibrolux,Twins and my friends 64 Vibroverb. Marshall JTM 45 bluesbreakers and JMP's and Vox AC30 loaded with alnico blues.
KEEP ON ROCKIN IN THE FREE WORLD!!!
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Post by arniez on Jan 11, 2006 7:17:42 GMT -7
Groover, I believe the Vibroking uses 6l6's, but I could be wrong. If it uses 6v6's there are definitely 4 of them! Re single coils with a Z28, The amp flat out sounds great with them. Speaker choice and cabinet play a big part in it. I have a Z 4x10 open back cab and the rig sounds great with Fender type single coils, P90's, and buckers. I'm sure Celestion Blues can add a different dimension as well. The versatility of the Z28 is often underestimated in my opinion. It cops classic rock, blues, and country tones really well! ArnieZ
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 11, 2006 11:08:07 GMT -7
Groover: Headroom is a subjective thing apparently. I had a Mazerati and used it for one gig before trading it back in for a Maz 38. The Mazerati broke up way earlier than the Maz with master volume turned up. The Mazerati most reminded me of ancient Gibson amps only a lot louder. The Mazerati excelled at the hot Tele tones. Except for lack of an effects loop, reverb and a master volume the Prescription RX ES is my favorite, next is the Maz 38. The RX ES can cover a lot of territory, from very clean to rockin' but it will be very loud at that point. It does take pedals real well. The Vibroking is supposed to be 60 watts thru a pair of 6L6s and I believe a solid state rectifier. Fixed bias so typical hard Fender tone with no sag. Supposed to be a good clean tone amp but heavy. I think they use particle board for the cabinet.
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Post by rcrecelius on Jan 11, 2006 11:46:32 GMT -7
I am under the general impression that an extremely high percentage of you guys that own/gig with the Z28 are Gibson/bucker players and not many use a Strat or Tele with single coils with this amp. Is there anyone out there that uses a Fender type guitar with single coils extensively with this amp and if so what style of music do you play to give me some kind of idea of the tone you are pulling through the 28'? groovergeorge, Have you read my gig report here? Im mainly a country tele player although I play in a band that covers some rock/blues as well. I think the key to the Z28 is to push that EF86 pretty hard...which is why a lot of bucker guys like it. With single coils, I'd recommend a good booster on all the time to hit the front of the amp harder. Im using a Blues driver now to accomplish this but I will probably be getting an RC Booster in the near future.
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Post by taswegian on Jan 11, 2006 15:06:21 GMT -7
. This amp would kill that i'm sure. I'm just a little concerned how versatile it might be if I need to turn it down and play some sweet melodic phrases without the Texas sizzle. Groover, the beauty of the Route 66 is it cleans up so well with a small reduction on your guitar volume knob. If you listen to my songs that are posted drzamplifiers.proboards41.com/index.cgi?board=soundfiles&action=display&thread=1135038050they are all recorded on the same setting on the amp. There are dirty sounds and clean sounds, only difference is guitar volume. The trouble I think most people find with the 66 is at break up levels it's probably getting too loud for small clubs. But it handles pedals very well so small clubs it can be just run clean with an od pedal if needed. I've run it as low as 9'Oclock on all dials and it still sounds full. Should be touring up your way sometime this year so you can hear it for real if you like.
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Post by groovergeorge on Jan 12, 2006 6:47:01 GMT -7
My apologies. The reverb driver in the Vibroking is actually a 6v6 and it is powered by ,I stand corrected 2 6l6's. The tone of the amp still didn't do it for me(I guess tone is a subjective thing though). Prefered the sound of a Tonemaster, but hey that's me!
Anyway,I'd better not get side tracked here. Lots of thanks to you, Arniez and Billyguitar,this is the kinds of responses I've been waiting for.Actual owners.......and yes I totally agree speakers do play a massive part in final tone shape.
Taswegian, your comments on the Route 66 are well weighted as well. I checked your tones on your recordings(very impressed). Although it's not exactly my thing, it's engineered brilliantly and mixed really well. You pull old schoool riffs/pop/alternative 90's style stuff and then some,out of the one amp!!!!
Man,you should be a sales rep in Australia for the 66'.............didn't know it could be that versatile and still be different and a Z'
When are you coming to Byron bay?
Funny thing, I ran through all the sound bytes to my mate, a die hard SRV fan, he even owns an original 64 Vibroverb like Stevies, an old 55 two tone burst strat and a couple 60's slab boards. His rig setup the same way as SRV used to with a couple of TS808's. He used to do the tribute thing in the late 90's. I took him to the website, and to get him to smile about any amp that wasn't a 64 Vibroverb was a major task. Well, low and behold, the Route 66 was very cool and versatile according to him and he loved Grissoms tone. The surprise did come to me when I played the one MP3 on the Kt45 and he said that sound was absolutely killer. He wanted to know how much they were worth and how easy it was to get one. This all coming from a guy that just isn't impressed by anything other than the larger Fender blackface era amps.
Finally after all these years, a new line of amps that sounds as good as a vintage stuff or boutique pieces without the hefty price tag.
Thanks Doc'
"KEEP ON ROCKIN IN THE FREE WORLD"
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Post by groovergeorge on Jan 12, 2006 9:21:44 GMT -7
By the way Tas;
The tone on "My unwanted friend" reminds me very much of Jimmy Page's "The Ocean".
Being a big Led Zep fan, I found the ability of the amp to get close to that very appealing.
"Hypothermia", (something we don't see too much of up here in Byron Bay) had a very sweet clean tone. Must be that ef86,the sparkle really comes through.
What pickup-amp/settings did you use on that tune?
Your vocals are very Daniel Johns, is he an influence?
Either way keep on doing what you're doing,I enjoyed listening in!
"KEEP ON ROCKIN IN THE FREE WORLD"
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Post by taswegian on Jan 12, 2006 16:14:37 GMT -7
By the way Tas; The tone on "My unwanted friend" reminds me very much of Jimmy Page's "The Ocean". Being a big Led Zep fan, I found the ability of the amp to get close to that very appealing. "Hypothermia", (something we don't see too much of up here in Byron Bay) had a very sweet clean tone. Must be that ef86,the sparkle really comes through. What pickup-amp/settings did you use on that tune? Your vocals are very Daniel Johns, is he an influence? Either way keep on doing what you're doing,I enjoyed listening in! "KEEP ON ROCKIN IN THE FREE WORLD" The amazing thing about the recording that speaks heaps for the Route 66, is that I set up with it basically almost cranked with all three knobs around 3 oclock, and then we just rolled through the tracks as if I was playing live. I use a Grosh Set Neck with humbuckers and that was the only guitar I used as well, so every guitar track on the album is one setting, one guitar. I actually prefer the clean sound of the amp cranked and the guitar volume rolled back, over the amp running clean. Your right it gets a nice shimmery sparkle on top run like that where as the amp running clean is a bit more warm and smokey. I'm a big Zep fan too and want my "dirty" sounds to be more on par with 70's rock than modern. We often play "Black Dog" "Immigrant Song" and "Kashmir" in our sets and the 66 does a killer Zep tone. If you are familiar with my good friend Simon Patterson (Hey Hey It's Saturday) he has actually borrowed my rig for a jazz gig and loved it. As far as our trio goes, we spend more time goofing off at practise...we play Toto, Police, Steely Dan, Yes, Queen, Kansas, Queens of the Stone Age, Vai, ZZ, Ford, SRV, Los Labotomies, Motor Head, Priest, Sex Pistols, Kiss, Stern, you name it...we have very broad influences. Our drummer plays in an African band, a latin, gypsy swing band, jazz band, blues band, funk pyschodelica band, some japanese drum ensemble and of course us. Vocally I'd say my influences are older, Sting, Bobby Kimball, Gramm, Plant,...I dig the R&B influenced rock thing, though I do dig Daniel. Can't wait to hear what your second Z will be. Mine was the mini! Thanks for listening to the tunes.
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