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Post by franksb on Feb 17, 2010 2:18:05 GMT -7
hi everybody! i'm new to this here, but i hope i can get some help! i'm from germany, europe, and probably one of the biggest Z fans over here. i have a EZG 50 with a Bogner 2x12 cab (V30 and Greenback) and i have problems with the bass! it seems like the ezg has too much of it. i set the bass about 7-8 o' clock and it still pretty much... treble around 3 o clock, mid about 12 o clock! especially with humbuckers i get a (PRS Custom22) i get this problem! do you have any experience with that? when i see the EZG on youtube, everybody has the bass cranked down... is there any chance to fix it? maybe new tubes or something? i really love this amp, but in some situations is't too much! best wishes, frank
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Post by asattwanger on Feb 17, 2010 3:29:39 GMT -7
an open back cab and the bass off
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Feb 17, 2010 6:34:10 GMT -7
I have the bass almost off on mine
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 17, 2010 7:33:57 GMT -7
I have the bass almost off on mine Me too, especially with the Z-best. True story: at Z-Fest '08 I was doing "my" thing (photography) up near the stage at the jam and Shannon and Jason went up to plug in. Shannon plugged his Strat in to the EZG/4x10 rig and started to warm up. I went up to him and said "Hey...just a suggestion...you might want to turn down the bass control a little...you might step on the bass player when the song starts." He turned around and looked at the controls, turned back to me and said in disbelief, "It's OFF. The bass control's all the way off!" When the song started there was no worries; the bass player came through just fine but Shannon's tone sounded glorious. I think our ears are just calibrated to a different standard, so to speak. The EZG doesn't have "too much" bass; it just goes lower than a lot of guitar amps do and it's still tight.
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Post by mtlrecords on Feb 17, 2010 7:48:43 GMT -7
Yep, it has plenty of low end. But it is blossoming, glorious, harmonically complex low end- reminds me of vintage Fender amps, but slightly sweeter.
I was actually able to coax some similar sounds to the EZG-50 running a 67 Bassman and a 70's Hiwatt DR504 TOGETHER into a stereo 2x12 closed back cabinet (minus the reverb). Again- that took TWO amps to get me in the ballpark of what the EZG was doing sonically, and that was only ballpark.
That said, the EZG is bass heavy and perhaps not suited to everyone. I am loving it though!
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grimmie
Junior Member
I don't think I'm loud!
Posts: 86
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Post by grimmie on Feb 17, 2010 11:40:23 GMT -7
It does take some getting use to. I played a twin for many years. The EZG holds the bottom end together really nice. Just let your ears listen without the visual of looking at the bass knob turned down or off. The bottom end is still there. The bass pot kinda Taimes the really low bottom end like the others are saying. I use a 2-12 open back cab. I like a full sounding tone with enough high end to cut thru. I usually set the bass at about 8:00 or so with my tele, unlike with the twin I kept the bass on about 5 or 12:00 most of the time.
When I first tried the amp out it was thru a 2-12 closed back with same speakers that are in my cabinet. The bass was a lot more dominate. I had to cut the bass completely off with that cab.
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Post by asattwanger on Feb 17, 2010 14:41:44 GMT -7
Man I know where I'm gonna go when I pick up another Z. Sounds like a JBL for my Z-cab and Mesa bass cab might be in order. Hey, I have a line on a really nice JBL 12" right now. Maybe I should go a head and buy it.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Feb 17, 2010 20:57:31 GMT -7
It sounds great with a 15" too - they had one at last year's Z-Fest - can you say Vibro-King?
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Post by awesome on Feb 17, 2010 21:41:32 GMT -7
i kind of felt that where the the pre and master are set also affects the bassiness of the amp, and some speakers with good bass control would help immensely.
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Post by franksb on Feb 18, 2010 9:59:10 GMT -7
thanks for the help... but if i turn the bass down all the way, it affects the sound. and i don't have the money to get a new open back cab... :-) so i have to get used to it and continue tweaking the bass, because i probably will never play any other amp!
does anybody has experience with trying different preamp or power tubes and the bass-problem?
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 19, 2010 7:21:15 GMT -7
Well, I definitely wouldn't call it a bass "problem" I'll take all the low, fat, tight bass I can get when playing a Strat. Last night I went and played the EZG for a while with the Z-Best and the Dr. Z 4X10. Even with the bass control all the way off there's wasn't too much in my opinion. To me "too much" is when it starts to get muddy or you lose clarity. I could live with the EZG's bass control on "0" if I had to but I usually turn it up to 8:30 or 9:00. When playing live I'd consider running the bass pretty low to avoid stepping on the bass player's sound. In my opinion I don't think there's any tube swap (preamp or power) that will "fix" the problem you're describing with your rig. If you can try the EZG with a different speaker cabinet. I think a speaker change will get you where you want to be.
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Liquids
Junior Member
Electronics!
Posts: 88
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Post by Liquids on Feb 19, 2010 9:59:21 GMT -7
Interesting that the EZG-50 has this "issue" for lack of a better term. I've never played one (yet!) but I do own an old Fender Super Reverb. What you describe is is kind of a 'classic' battle with blackface amps and their apprent low end content...and the EZG probably shares a fair amount in common with 'blackface' Fender amps.
I can only imagine how much bass you are talking considering Z probably uses a big old transformer with full bass reproduction...not the mention that his cabs are known for their bass response!
Anyhow, I'm not sure if/where the EZG differs from the Fenders in it's preamp schematic. Assuming it's the same or similar, my findings are that the bass abundance is just relative to the mid content. The mid scoop of that fender tone stack is there in some way, just about no matter where you set the tone controls. It's a 'deep and wide' scoop that dips from low mids to high mids, and give's it a 'hi-fi' sounding tone, leaving the highest highs (especially with a bright cap) and lowest lows dominating. All of that is part of the blackface tonal "signature."
I've personally modded the 'normal' channel's tone stack of mine to have less of a 'deep and wide' scoop and more of a 'narrow' scoop, and also did a tweak so it puts out less of those low via a (cathode) cap mod. But I left my 'vibrato' channel as is since 'stock' is a great tone too!
Like Phil, I don't think there's a tube that will really do much to shift the tone in regard to bass. But don't be afraid to turn up the mid (3-5 o'clock even!) if you've zeroed the bass. It will still be plenty mid- scooped. It may seem counter intuitive, and takes a little getting used to, but you'll probably cut better when playing live. Give it a try.
Staying out of mod-land, likewise, there is no shame in using a graphic or parametric EQ pedal of some kind as the last thing in your chain to sculpt some of those low frequencies more precisely. Keep the amp away from walls and wall corners, which will only exaggerate the apparent 'bass push.'
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Post by pintail78 on Feb 19, 2010 12:34:53 GMT -7
i keep the bass off with open back, cut part of the back off....cost little
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 19, 2010 13:06:39 GMT -7
Liquids, Good post. The EZG does share a similar design to BF Fenders, but there are some glaring differences. The mids are definitely more "Hi-Watty" and not scooped in the same way as the Fender. The reverb sounds different to my ears- maybe it's the extra control. The big difference is of course the output tranny...since you haven't seen an EZG yet I'll just say that looking in the back of the amp shocks you the first time...the trannies will put some 100W amps to shame. I thought my Delta 88 had huge iron... It's got a different design than your garden variety Fender 2x6L6 tranny...
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Post by bluegroove99 on Feb 19, 2010 13:46:31 GMT -7
Hey can ya'll tell me more about the tone stack of the EZG? Seems like the treble knob increases bass and the bass knob increased treble??? Am i just losing my mind and hearing? Thanks for info!
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Post by mtlrecords on Feb 19, 2010 19:16:51 GMT -7
Uhh...not sure about the question regarding the tone stack.
As far as I can tell, my EZG tone stack works as you would expect.
However, turning down the bass frequencies might make your amp appear to be more "trebley" because of the lack of low frequencies, but it would not ADD any highs. Does that help?
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Post by franksb on Feb 20, 2010 3:07:19 GMT -7
phil and liquids, thanks for your interesting posts... you're right, i wouldn't call it a "problem" either... :-) i will definitely try to turn up the mids and see what happens!
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Post by pedalcr8z on Feb 23, 2010 10:12:16 GMT -7
I've had my EZG-50 combo a couple month's now and love the bass which I have at NOON. As has been said in this thread already, I'll take all the fatness I can get with both my Custom Shop Strat and Nocaster. I'm very sensitive to bloated bass as I was in the high end hi-fi industry for 36 years. I find the EZG bass full, thick, girthy and detailed. Perhaps with a humbucker I might not feel the same as I consider humbuckers too bloaty for my ears in the neck position at least. Single coils have always preferred Blackface as they share the same blood.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 23, 2010 13:28:56 GMT -7
I've had my EZG-50 combo a couple month's now and love the bass which I have at NOON. As has been said in this thread already, I'll take all the fatness I can get with both my Custom Shop Strat and Nocaster. I'm very sensitive to bloated bass as I was in the high end hi-fi industry for 36 years. I find the EZG bass full, thick, girthy and detailed. Perhaps with a humbucker I might not feel the same as I consider humbuckers too bloaty for my ears in the neck position at least. Single coils have always preferred Blackface as they share the same blood. I've struggled with humbuckers for years as well...especially in the neck position. That was one of the big factors in getting rid of my Gibson Johnny A...the wound strings on the neck PU were muddy to me no matter what adjustments I made. I've had the same problem on pretty much all my other HB guitars. My Grosh Set Neck is the best one I've played in that area in a while. I did have a lot of luck with a Fralin Unbucker in another guitar (Heritage 150).....
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