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Post by deaconblues on Aug 22, 2009 6:04:01 GMT -7
Has anyone compared the Brake Lite to it's big brother(Z's Air Brake)?
I've owned one Brake Lite and several other attenuators(4 Webers, Marshall,THD). They all sound like they are choking the life out of an amp(which they are). I just don't care for any attenuator I've used to date. I'm tempted to try the Ultimate Attenuator, but they are extremely expensive for a gadget that I'm already leery of.
Is the Air Brake more transparent than the Brake Lite? Does using it give you more of your amps feel and sound than the Brake Lite does?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 22, 2009 9:29:56 GMT -7
They are the exact same design, just different wattages. And I submit that any device that lowers your volume without a corresponding adjustment for the Fletcher-Munson effect ( Fletcher-Munson on Wikipedia) will give you the same impression. Some of us seem to be more sensitive to that effect than others, which is why some of us never get used to an attenuator and some of us thrive on them. YMMV by quite a lot, apparently.
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Post by deaconblues on Aug 22, 2009 12:17:04 GMT -7
Yeah, I guess I just need to realize that and give up on them completely.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 22, 2009 12:28:21 GMT -7
Yeah, I guess I just need to realize that and give up on them completely. Some folks do give up on them. Others, like me, use them continuously. I don't think I've done a gig for the last seven years without an attenuator.
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Post by 6stringer on Aug 25, 2009 7:47:24 GMT -7
Had an Air Brake... sold it & bought 2 Brake Lites & couldn't be happier! I think the smaller resistor used in the BL is a better match for my lower wattage amps... Ghia & Z28.
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Post by Stan on Apr 15, 2012 9:55:57 GMT -7
i'm interested in this topic, was going to start one but found this instead, can someone tell me why or what is the real difference in these 2 products ? do they do the same thing? but at double or half the price? not sure i understand why i'd want one over the other, Dr Z website is so vague so that doesn't help
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Post by Rich (fbb90) on Apr 15, 2012 10:56:38 GMT -7
i'm interested in this topic, was going to start one but found this instead, can someone tell me why or what is the real difference in these 2 products ? do they do the same thing? but at double or half the price? not sure i understand why i'd want one over the other, Dr Z website is so vague so that doesn't help The Air Brake has greater attenuation (down to "bedroom," and that level, too, is adjustable). The Brake Lite is smaller w/out the "bedroom" level of attenuation. If you are only going to use it to play out live, you probably could get away w/ the Brake Lite. But if you use it at home w/ sleeping kids, wives, neighbors, I'd go for the Air Brake. I have two Air Brakes, and I feel they are essential equipment. I'd rather have more attenuation available (which the Air Brake provides) than not have enough. If you need more attenuation than "click 4" on the Brake Lite, you don't have it; you need to back off on your amp volume. And backing off on the amp volume will significantly change your sound/dynamic more so than additional attenuation.
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Post by doctorice on Apr 15, 2012 11:43:18 GMT -7
Dr Z rates the Brake Lite up to 45 watts; Air Brake designed to accept higher wattage.
Air Brake does not seem to compromise the tone of a Z Wreck, even when on 4 clicks. In contrast, I feel the BL on 3 or 4 with a MAZ or Z-28 does take some life away. Some of this could be purely Fletcher-Munson effect as the Wreck is louder.
I often gig with BL @ 2 on a Z-28 or MAZ and don't feel any annoying degradation. Helps (psychologically, I guess) to start with BL @ 3 while dialing in for the room, then reduce the attenuation.
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Post by Stan on Apr 15, 2012 12:34:28 GMT -7
ok so greater attenuation is what i got so far,
so is that why it cost 2x as much?
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Post by Stan on Apr 15, 2012 12:38:34 GMT -7
I have two Air Brakes, and I feel they are essential equipment. I'd rather have more attenuation available (which the Air Brake provides) than not have enough.
are you hooking these up together (series) to get more attenuation?
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Post by Rich (fbb90) on Apr 15, 2012 17:47:18 GMT -7
are you hooking these up together (series) to get more attenuation? No, I haven't tried that. From what I've read, here, it is possible, but I haven't found the need to go beyond one Air Brake worth of attenuation. As Doctorice stated, the Air Brake can be used on higher wattage amps, while the Brake Lite is only recommended up to 45 watts. The Air Brake is is a good-bit larger than the Brake Lite stand alone and/or the combo-mount one. I don't find the Air Brake to be excessively large or cumbersome. As I said, I prefer the greater attenuation that the Air Brake provides over the Brake Lite, and that I can use it on my higher wattage amps - Delta 88, SRZ-65 LE. While I recommend you by Dr. Z's products new, you can find used Air Brakes for around the price of a new Brake Lite SA on ebay and other BS&T sections (here, Gear Page, etc.). I purchased my second Air Brake (I like to run a stereo two-amp rig, hence the need for two) right around the time Z came out w/ the Brake Lite. Without a second thought, I bought the original Air Brake for higher wattage capability and greater attenuation. But if you don't need the "bedroom" level of attenuation, your amps don't exceed 45 watts, and/or size is a concern, the Brake Lite should be fine (and cheaper!).
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 16, 2012 7:57:40 GMT -7
The db drops are slightly different if you compare the two. Click the Cab Specs link in my signature for a comparison of the two.
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Post by zpilot on Apr 21, 2012 11:18:36 GMT -7
I have used several attenuators over the years and don't care for any of them past the 3-6db setting. It's not just the change in frequency response. Most are only a resistance load and don't feel right. I have a brakelite in my MAZ Jr and, like I said, it works OK on the first click. It's small and priced right. If I need more attenuation than that I use a Koch Load Box. It is a reactive load so it feels better on the lower settings. Better but not great. It has A LOT of other nice features like cabinet and mic simulation. However it is larger than a Brakelite and much more expensive. They both have their proper use.
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Post by doctorice on Apr 21, 2012 16:01:44 GMT -7
The db drops are slightly different if you compare the two. Click the Cab Specs link in my signature for a comparison of the two. And I'm pretty sure the owner can adjust away from factory settings if he or she wishes to.
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jeffh
New Member
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Post by jeffh on Jul 3, 2012 19:53:58 GMT -7
Don't have anything to add on the AirBrake/Brake Lite debate, but be aware the Ultimate is not an attenuator per se but rather a re-amp. It's like running your wonderful tube amp through a solid state stereo. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but they should call it like it is - don't call it an attenuator. Also there have been discussions elsewhere about the inherent impedance mismatch of the Ultimate but I don't recall specifics. I had one and sold it quickly. Now I have a BL, and two Alessandro Muzzles - 4 and 16 ohms. Am itching to get an AirBrake sometime for finer control (actually lower control) and higher power capability.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 3, 2012 20:12:23 GMT -7
One more data point. Most folks who are sensitive to the Fletcher-Munson effect are especially sensitive if they start at full volume and use the attenuator to turn down. Instead, start with maximum attenuation, set your tone as desired, then use the attenuator to turn UP.
When you haven't played yet today, go to your amp, turn your attenuator to maximum, and set up your tone. Get happy with it. THEN when you want more volume, turn UP with the attenuator. You'll be 100 times happier with the results, guaranteed.
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Post by grapetone on Aug 17, 2012 7:07:20 GMT -7
I'm new to attenuators but got the AirBrake instead of BrakeLight for the bedroom setting. With that being said I don't like using the bedroom setting past noon on the dial and even that's pushing it. For starters the reverb gets funky and takes away from the tone of the amp. I wanted the bedroom setting so I could use it home with my kids sleeping but I'd rather get a BrakeLight, keep on 4 and just turn the amp itself down. Question to u guys, is the AirBrake and brake lite settings exactly the same minus the AirBrake bedroom setting? Is 4 on AirBrake the same as 4 on BrakeLight? Thanks guys.
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Post by brayks on Aug 17, 2012 7:28:52 GMT -7
When you haven't played yet today, go to your amp, turn your attenuator to maximum, and set up your tone. Get happy with it. THEN when you want more volume, turn UP with the attenuator. You'll be 100 times happier with the results, guaranteed. Great advice Steve. That's what I do as well and it is really quite effective.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 17, 2012 7:50:26 GMT -7
I'm new to attenuators but got the AirBrake instead of BrakeLight for the bedroom setting. With that being said I don't like using the bedroom setting past noon on the dial and even that's pushing it. For starters the reverb gets funky and takes away from the tone of the amp. I wanted the bedroom setting so I could use it home with my kids sleeping but I'd rather get a BrakeLight, keep on 4 and just turn the amp itself down. Question to u guys, is the AirBrake and brake lite settings exactly the same minus the AirBrake bedroom setting? Is 4 on AirBrake the same as 4 on BrakeLight? Thanks guys. They are not quite exactly alike, but pretty close. You can see the actual factory settings by clicking the links in my signature below. It's the one for speakers that has the attenuator info. BTW, if you plan to connect a brake lite and just turn down the amp, you can do the exact same thing with the Airbrake that you already own.
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Post by grapetone on Aug 17, 2012 8:12:08 GMT -7
Good point. I had mentioned it because I just ordered a Maz18 head and cab and still owe a little on it. Was going to return the AirBrake for the BrakeLight to absorb the some of the cost. In the end I think I will just keep the AB, I'd rather have too much and plus I already know I really like it with the Maz and it's tone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 19:15:52 GMT -7
I'm new to attenuators but got the AirBrake instead of BrakeLight for the bedroom setting. With that being said I don't like using the bedroom setting past noon on the dial and even that's pushing it. For starters the reverb gets funky and takes away from the tone of the amp. I wanted the bedroom setting so I could use it home with my kids sleeping but I'd rather get a BrakeLight, keep on 4 and just turn the amp itself down. Question to u guys, is the AirBrake and brake lite settings exactly the same minus the AirBrake bedroom setting? Is 4 on AirBrake the same as 4 on BrakeLight? Thanks guys. They are not quite exactly alike, but pretty close. You can see the actual factory settings by clicking the links in my signature below. It's the one for speakers that has the attenuator info. BTW, if you plan to connect a brake lite and just turn down the amp, you can do the exact same thing with the Airbrake that you already own. My friend wants to do a trade with me on a pedal for the air brake. He brought the air brake over yesterday and we went through both my amps the remedy and the maz jr and a/b between the brake lite which I already own and the air brake that he has and wants to trade. We both noticed that the brake lite sounded a little brighter then the air brake and also louder at 4 then the air brake setting at 4. We also confirmed what most of you have posted about the slight difference between the two. The bedroom setting mixed in at about 12 o oclock sounded very nice and warm. The volume was perfect and the tone sounded natural. The brake lite at 4 had a brighter more compressed sound. I would have to agree that the air brake would be the better choice at home and the brake lite would be the one for the gigs. I only use the brake lite at home I never gig with it so I may take my friend up on the trade. So I may be selling my brake lite and going with the air brake. The air brake is huge compared to the brake lite though. I am no expert. This is just my opinion my friend thought the same thing as far as the brake lite sounding brighter he mentioned it to me and that was what I was thinking I just didnt say anything. I thought that the air brake sounded better imho. Steve is right they are pretty close . I would not sell the air brake if you are using it at home its better to have that option of bedroom level at home then to not have it. It is a significant difference compared to the brake lite.
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